At least when my social phobia was ruling my life and I was depressed, I knew that I would be alone and for the most part I had accepted it, and I'd almost got to the point of not giving a shit.

But now I'm on meds that work, and I'm feeling good and 'hopeful'. But that also means I care when I get rejected. The last six girls I've been interested in have said they're already with someone or they just want to be friends. And it's not like I'm going out of my 'league'. I found them all attractive, but I realise objectively that most people wouldn't rate them near a 10. I'm also now on a dating site. I've sent messages to various girls that seem intelligent and with similar interests, and not one reply.

And don't get me started on the intelligence level of most people. I try to be optimistic. "They're not idiots, they're just ignorant", I tell myself. But it's becoming increasingly difficult to keep believing that. Most people are borderline fucking retarded, or if they're smart in any way, they're usually fucking arseholes who manipulate everyone else to get their way.

I'm almost at the point where I want to stop taking my Efexor, but if I did that I wouldn't be able to handle going into work every day, and I need to keep my job at least...

I give you permission to laugh at my pitiful rant.

That's not a laughing matter.

And you are right. Most people are borderline retards.
Don't worry about the girls though. Just... don't pursue them TOO hard. That will put most girls off.

Jared,

First: take a deep breath.

Your frustration with the situation comes through loud and clear. It's like being "between a rock and a hard place." On the meds, you care. People are infuriating: the stupid ones are tedious; the intelligent ones manipulative.

I'd like to suggest that you give YOURSELF a break. Forget about all those others for a moment.

You've already realized that indeed "Life is not fair." And you are absolutely right. Given that realization, what matters is what you DO ABOUT THAT. Will you allow it to control you by keeping you in a perpetual state of rage, or will YOU take control by allowing this realization to give you the gift of resilience?

With the girl thing: the dating scene is fraught with pressures and fears. These girls are under pressure from every direction: friends, family, their own fears that THEY are not "worthy." The turmoil in there must be nearly unbearable and exacerbated by hormones. It's a wonder ANY of their decisions are anything but bad decisions under the circumstances.

I submit to you that "it's always in the last place you look." This is a truism regarding lost objects, but can also work for relationships. Consider that trying harder in this arena is something that you DON'T want to do. Go out and do the stuff you like doing. Go to places you enjoy. Hang out with those you like and respect, and who LIKE AND RESPECT YOU. Don't waste your time with the others, or those who self-select away from you, because you know what? They're doing YOU a favor! Seems like they're people you wouldn't want to associate with anyway, right?

So.

Stay true to your meds. You're obviously intelligent enough to know that even if you want to get off them, or change the dosage, or change to something else, you'll need to do so under your doctor's care. Because weird shit can happen to your mind if you just go "cold turkey." And the stuff that'd happen would be only an artifact and not really you anyway. And you knew that, right? Also, in time you may be able to reduce or remove the meds.

Get good at being alone. You'll find you're far more relaxed around others if this is from the basis of being comfortable just by yourself. After all, no matter WHERE you go, there you are!

Intelligent people sometimes need help in the compassion department. When 98% of the population seems just too stupid to believe, I have some advice for intelligent people:

A) Believe it.
B) Try not to hold it against them.
C) Know that there are other intelligent people out there, but that it'll just take more time to find them. This is logical, yes?
D) Work to be compassionate yourself, and seek that quality in the other intelligent people you find.

Finally, I'm going to speculate that you're not always and perpetually in the state of mind you were in when you wrote your post. If you find that most of the time you take a setback, or get pissed off for a while, but then get back into the swing of your life and carry on despite this (or perhaps the meds are helping make this more so for you for a while), then respect that basic wisdom. Accept your own resilience. Don't let the bad shit grow to too high a percentage. If you feel it taking over, stop for ONE second and reflect: what does that state of mind *accomplish*? Will the world still be the same way it was when you come back out the other side of that rage? You're damn straight it will be. So even if you have to "go there" for a while to blow off the steam, be mindful. Don't let it take you over, or rule your life. Take control BACK from that. Because if after many years you've spent lots of time in a state of rage, WHO LOSES? Who's miserable? Who is it that others instinctively stay away from?

Go be you. Life sucks sometimes, but you don't have to let it rule. I'm not advocating being a happy-go-lucky airhead. Some of your *dark* places are part of what makes you more reflective, more interesting, possibly more creative?

You are the captain of this fucking ship. Steer it.

xtraordinaryevidence wrote:At least when my social phobia was ruling my life and I was depressed, I knew that I would be alone and for the most part I had accepted it, and I'd almost got to the point of not giving a shit.

But now I'm on meds that work, and I'm feeling good and 'hopeful'. But that also means I care when I get rejected. The last six girls I've been interested in have said they're already with someone or they just want to be friends. And it's not like I'm going out of my 'league'. I found them all attractive, but I realise objectively that most people wouldn't rate them near a 10. I'm also now on a dating site. I've sent messages to various girls that seem intelligent and with similar interests, and not one reply.

And don't get me started on the intelligence level of most people. I try to be optimistic. "They're not idiots, they're just ignorant", I tell myself. But it's becoming increasingly difficult to keep believing that. Most people are borderline fucking retarded, or if they're smart in any way, they're usually fucking arseholes who manipulate everyone else to get their way.

I'm almost at the point where I want to stop taking my Effexor, but if I did that I wouldn't be able to handle going into work every day, and I need to keep my job at least...

I give you permission to laugh at my pitiful rant.

Hey xtra. Fellow social phobic here with a tendency for depression!

I'm recently diagnosed and I'm not any any meds (yet?). I'm going to be going for some cognitive behavioural therapy soon though (hopefully!).

I personally never had much of a problem at work with it. But then when I'm at work I'm not "me". So I'm not worried about being "me". Which is the route of my problem.

My social life however, is a different barrel of fish. Even when there's no sex option I still have to get quite drunk or high to feel comfortable around groups of people, as I'm sure you're familiar with.

My advice for you? Stop trying to get a girlfriend. What's your group of friends like? Are they mostly male or is there a good mix? I'm pretty lucky I guess because at least half of my close friends are female, and they all have lots of female friends, so at parties there's quite of lot of tail. If you're not in a similar situation try and get to it. Don't go to a party expecting to get with a girl, as I think subconsciously that filters through.

Another tactic (although it can't be a tactic because you can't do tactics! ) is to try and hang out with females as a friend, first. Is there a bunch of people going out for a drink after work? Then go with them. You're not there looking for love remember, you're there looking for a laugh.

You see a movie you want to see? Then ask a bunch of people to go, male and female.

Stuff like that.

Hard as it may seem, stop looking for love that way, xtraordinaryevidence. As MacIver says, embrace friendship and companionship with the people whose company you like; you'll find yourself invited to more and more events and meet more and more people. Love will then come looking for you when you're least expecting it.

If you're determined to be proactive, have you thought about volunteering?

Thanks everyone for the advice. I was drunk early this morning, so that's where part of the anger came from, but it's all still true. It was my brother's 19th last night, and I'm not too anxious these days so he wanted me to come. We went into town later, which was ok. I told him I was having fun, which was a half-truth, but going to bars and nightclubs really irritates me. Way too crowded, you can barely move in some of them, horrible music, and there's no way you can have a conversation.

I'm probably overcompensating a bit for being avoidant for most of my life. In the last month, I've even gone up to a couple of complete strangers and asked them to lunch (separate occasions). They said no of course (the chances are against me in that situation even if they liked me), but the good thing is I thought of rational explanations for the rejection and it didn't bother me, rather than immediately blaming myself. The funny thing is, I found it much tougher putting up a profile on a dating site. Now if girls aren't interested, it's far more likely to do with who I actually am, rather than just what I look like, or how they're feeling in the moment I ask them to lunch.

Globe wrote:Don't worry about the girls though. Just... don't pursue them TOO hard. That will put most girls off.

It's alright, I'm not one for pursuing (read: stalking). Some girls seem to play those games where they initially refuse, but secretly want you to show that you're a man and assertively take what you want. I'm straight-forward and don't like games. If they say no, I take their word for it. And I haven't been sending message after message to the same girls on the dating site either.

thaesofereode wrote:Intelligent people sometimes need help in the compassion department. When 98% of the population seems just too stupid to believe, I have some advice for intelligent people:

A) Believe it.
B) Try not to hold it against them.
C) Know that there are other intelligent people out there, but that it'll just take more time to find them. This is logical, yes?
D) Work to be compassionate yourself, and seek that quality in the other intelligent people you find.]

Yes, I'm probably lacking in compassion, but I'm non-confrontational so it's hardly ever a problem in everyday life. I seem to have a lot of empathy, but I think I learned it intellectually, rather than being born with the capacity emotionally as most people seem to be, if that makes sense. I think it's an advantage in that it's easier for me to have empathy for people far outside my own circles, whereas most people still have an evolutionary relic of tribalism that makes them fiercely loyal to their close friends and family but they don't give a shit about anyone else. I, on the other hand can spend months without seeing family members, almost never make initial contact to get together, and won't automatically take their side in a dispute just because they're family (maybe I should work on that one ), but I'm extremely aware of social injustices here and around the world.

MacIver wrote:Another tactic (although it can't be a tactic because you can't do tactics! ) is to try and hang out with females as a friend, first. Is there a bunch of people going out for a drink after work? Then go with them. You're not there looking for love remember, you're there looking for a laugh.

Ah, the friendzone. That gets to you after the first few. Don't get me wrong, I can be friends with girls, and do have a couple, which is almost as many as my guy friends, haha. But recently I've fallen for one of them, and she seems to like me too, but has recently ended her previous relationship, so isn't ready and just wants to stay friends. ARGH!

We are still friends of course, we have been for a couple of years. She's amazing. Very nice. In a genuine way, not one of those people who are superficially nice in public, but put on their KKK robe when they get home and show their true colours. And she's got lovely eyes, and a lovely arse. Very intelligent too, of course.

Blip wrote:If you're determined to be proactive, have you thought about volunteering?

I have thought about it a bit. I've just started monthly donations to a few charities, but now that I'm fine out in public and interacting with people, I should get into volunteering as well. I probably won't be anxiety-free (in comparison to my natural brain-state) forever.

MacIver wrote:Hey xtra. Fellow social phobic here with a tendency for depression!

I'm recently diagnosed and I'm not any any meds (yet?). I'm going to be going for some cognitive behavioural therapy soon though (hopefully!).

If you find that CBT doesn't work as well as expected, ask your doctor about Efexor. It works for me at least, and my psychiatrist told me it's currently the most prescribed medication for treating anxiety disorders. Good luck!

It's also ok to be introverted.

I'm a generally happy, optimistic person. I just don't like crowds. I don't go to nightclubs and crowded bars because I don't like it. I enjoyed going to the tourist district in Chicago, but I didn't like the crowded sidewalk.

I don't have a lot of close friends. I have a handful I talk to on the phone occasionally and I'm very close to my wife. This is ok.

Basically, consider the expectations you have for yourself and make sure that you're aiming for what makes you happy and aren't trying for a false goal of what 'well-adjusted' is.

xtraordinaryevidence wrote:

Globe wrote:Don't worry about the girls though. Just... don't pursue them TOO hard. That will put most girls off.

It's alright, I'm not one for pursuing (read: stalking). Some girls seem to play those games where they initially refuse, but secretly want you to show that you're a man and assertively take what you want. I'm straight-forward and don't like games. If they say no, I take their word for it. And I haven't been sending message after message to the same girls on the dating site either.

Good! I personally would prefer it if all guys were straight forward and told me they were interested in getting up my dress than being just a friend. I'd have such an easier time knowing who to avoid.

And yea, don't send messages over and over again. That just makes the "omg he's a creeper" alarm go off.

Yes, I'm probably lacking in compassion, but I'm non-confrontational so it's hardly ever a problem in everyday life. I seem to have a lot of empathy, but I think I learned it intellectually, rather than being born with the capacity emotionally as most people seem to be, if that makes sense. I think it's an advantage in that it's easier for me to have empathy for people far outside my own circles, whereas most people still have an evolutionary relic of tribalism that makes them fiercely loyal to their close friends and family but they don't give a shit about anyone else. I, on the other hand can spend months without seeing family members, almost never make initial contact to get together, and won't automatically take their side in a dispute just because they're family (maybe I should work on that one ), but I'm extremely aware of social injustices here and around the world.

Great traits.

MacIver wrote:Another tactic (although it can't be a tactic because you can't do tactics! ) is to try and hang out with females as a friend, first. Is there a bunch of people going out for a drink after work? Then go with them. You're not there looking for love remember, you're there looking for a laugh.

Ah, the friendzone.

...

Ugh, did you seriously use the "friendzone" term? I'm not even sure where to start on explaining how that term is seriously fucked up. But I'll give it a whirl.

If you're interested in a woman, be honest and just tell her. Don't pretend to be her "friend" when all you're really interested is getting into her pants (or up her dress, if that's what she prefers to wear). That's not being a friend, or even nice. Please don't do that to her or any other woman. If you do want sex, along with an actual relationship than you need to let her know. We women can't read minds, and if a guy is acting like a friend, that's what we'll consider him. Many of us like having males for friends, but also like having male friends that are not trying to secretly get our panties off while pretending to just be a friend.

That gets to you after the first few. Don't get me wrong, I can be friends with girls, and do have a couple, which is almost as many as my guy friends, haha. But recently I've fallen for one of them, and she seems to like me too, but has recently ended her previous relationship, so isn't ready and just wants to stay friends. ARGH!

“Slut” is how we vilify a woman for exercising her right to say “yes”.
“Friendzone” is how we vilify a woman for exercising her right to say “no”. the Friendzone tag on Tumblr (This is more in general about the term, not really directed at you xtraordinaryevidence!)

We are still friends of course, we have been for a couple of years. She's amazing. Very nice. In a genuine way, not one of those people who are superficially nice in public, but put on their KKK robe when they get home and show their true colours. And she's got lovely eyes, and a lovely arse. Very intelligent too, of course.

So if you do decide to let her know how you feel and she says "no thanks", you'll be okay with remaining as a friend, right? I hope so. Of course, she could say yes! But even as you're dating her, remain her friend too. Waiting for a bit may be best, as you said; she just got out of a relationship. But don't be dishonest about what you're hoping to get out of your relationship with her please.

/endrantonfriendzone

Sorry, that term just makes me crazy. It suggests that being a womans' friend (and not getting sex out of it, ever) is somehow a bad thing. Seriously rubs me the wrong way.

MoonLit wrote:

xtraordinaryevidence wrote:

MacIver wrote:Another tactic (although it can't be a tactic because you can't do tactics! ) is to try and hang out with females as a friend, first. Is there a bunch of people going out for a drink after work? Then go with them. You're not there looking for love remember, you're there looking for a laugh.

Ah, the friendzone.

...

Ugh, did you seriously use the "friendzone" term? I'm not even sure where to start on explaining how that term is seriously fucked up. But I'll give it a whirl.

Um, overreaction much?

If you're interested in a woman, be honest and just tell her. Don't pretend to be her "friend" when all you're really interested is getting into her pants (or up her dress, if that's what she prefers to wear). That's not being a friend, or even nice. Please don't do that to her or any other woman. If you do want sex, along with an actual relationship than you need to let her know. We women can't read minds, and if a guy is acting like a friend, that's what we'll consider him. Many of us like having males for friends, but also like having male friends that are not trying to secretly get our panties off while pretending to just be a friend.

Please don't suggest I am that kind of guy. Nowhere in my post could you possibly extract that assumption.

“Slut” is how we vilify a woman for exercising her right to say “yes”.
“Friendzone” is how we vilify a woman for exercising her right to say “no”. the Friendzone tag on Tumblr (This is more in general about the term, not really directed at you xtraordinaryevidence!)

Jesus Christ, please don't tell me you're a member at Skepchick.

You may not have directed it at me, but I reject your definitions. For me at least, "slut" is someone (girl or guy, although I prefer "manwhore" for the guy) who uses someone for sex, while giving the impression they want a relationship and manipulating the situation for purely selfish reasons, and if valid not letting on that they're also sleeping with other people. You could sleep with 1,000 people and as long as you're honest with what you're about, you're not a slut in my book.

Your Tumblr link doesn't appear to work. Here are the first four google results of "definition of friend zone":

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=The%20Friend%20Zone
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=friend%20zone
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friend_zone
http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/friend-zone

I haven't read all of the Urban Dictionary definitions, but even at that website most of them seem to be about romance, not just sex. At Wikipedia and Online Slang Dictionary it's all about the pain of being in the friend zone in romantic (and yes obviously a bit of sexual as well) terms. There's even a suggestion that women can find themselves in the zone as well! I think my favourite is this one:

What is quite possibly one of the worst places a guy could ever be in if you like someone. It doesn't matter the situation, once you're in, you feel like you're in a cage.

It consists of a multitude of possible emotions that you will succumb to. Mostly jealousy, defeat, hopelessness and a strange sense of knowing that your aspirations are an impossibility. You'll constantly know that the person you like will not like you in the same way. But for some reason, you're still friends with her. You feel like you can get her back, but it's not gonna happen.

And it's worse when they tell you about their significant other/crush/boyfriend. You might see them walk further away from you every day. You become a cushion, having to watch them with the person they THINK is perfect for them. But deep down, you know it's not true. But they think they are, and you have to acknowledge it as a reality.

It's hell on earth, guys.

I'm in the friend zone. An ever-so confining area of regret, jealousy and defeat. I won't be able to get her.

So if you do decide to let her know how you feel and she says "no thanks", you'll be okay with remaining as a friend, right? I hope so. Of course, she could say yes!

Perhaps I wasn't clear, but I have already told her how I feel. We're still friends, but I am most definitely in the friendzone, and it sucks.

But even as you're dating her, remain her friend too. Waiting for a bit may be best, as you said; she just got out of a relationship.

I definitely should have waited, but it was eating me up inside and I had to let her know then.

But don't be dishonest about what you're hoping to get out of your relationship with her please.

As I said, I'm not that kind of guy.

/endrantonfriendzone

Sorry, that term just makes me crazy. It suggests that being a womans' friend (and not getting sex out of it, ever) is somehow a bad thing. Seriously rubs me the wrong way.

As I have shown you, the most common definition suggests nothing of the sort. I don't mean to attack you. I like you and enjoy your posts, but this one was ridiculous and not up to your usual standard.

xtraordinaryevidence wrote:I'm also now on a dating site. I've sent messages to various girls that seem intelligent and with similar interests, and not one reply.

Forget dating sites. Women usually get overwhelmed with messages whilst guys usually don't get any at all. Meaning you have to try really hard to get ones attention. Unless it's written in a creative way it will be forgotten pretty quickly. Oh and some studies have shown that the amount of fake accounts on such sites is pretty high! Might be another reason why you didn't get replies. Don't get too frustrated on how people might behave on the internet

Wiðercora wrote:(You should skip to the second paragraph - I know I would. The only thing in the first are my own rambly thoughts)

I have only two friends - not including my girlfriend - and I do alright (By friend I mean 'People who pass the Naked Photo Test'). I have a tendency to hate...everything, pretty much. It puts a real crimp on one's ability to make friends (so does using the pronoun 'One'). I can count on my fingers and toes the things I actually like (and half of those things are my toes. Seriously. I like toes. Heh, toes. Look at them wiggle. Wiggling toes! But I hate having my toes touched, it freaks me out. Ugh, it makes me shiver just thinking about it.). I considered taking up alchoholism at one point, but the shit you have to go through to cure it put me off. I'm quite particular about my drink too, and I'm not the type to knock it back. I'm still on the same beer I started almost four hours ago (Marston's Pedigree, don'tcha know). My flatmates (henceforth referred to as 'the idiots I live with' [seriously, you have no idea. RatSkep spoils us all. We sally forth into the real world expecting the same level of intelligence there as here. How sadly we are mistaken.].) are in some kind of shock that I drink in the flat but as the futile explanation I gave to them went, I drink over a long period of time, while you two down it like it's going out of fashion. So anyway, the point is my girlfriend thinks I'm depressed or something - between you and me, I think it's my drawn out, soliloquies of self-loathing and disillusionment, Apathy and terrification (it's a word - trust me, I'm an aspiring novelist [Huh. Maybe I do have some kind of mental illness. You'd have to be bugfuck nuts to undertake this kind of project]) at meeting new people. That last one is a particular hindrance to finding gainful employment (or any kind of employment, for that matter [not that I don't want a job, I'd love to work in a bookshop or something. Maybe I'll run my own bookshop.].). And have you seen the world in which we live lately? Death, war, famine, global warming, genocide, Republicans. And it's going to get much, much worse before it gets any better. I'd say I'd have solid reason for feeling depressed, were I such (I'm not inclined to self-diagnosis. It never ends well.). Look, the point is...I don't really have a point, but I'd better rustle one up from somewhere, otherwise this post is just pure narcissism - look at how important my thoughts are. You shall read them and be awed.

Okay the point is, it's probably as bad as you think. You're going to get rejected hundreds of time before that one acceptance. Well not hundreds, but there'll be a lot more rejections than not. This is a pattern not relegated to girlfriends alone. The rejections mean squat (unless there's some kind of consistent criticism of your character [If you were a neo-Nazi, for example. Might want to consider changing that particular aspect of your personality.].), it's the unrejections that matter (this probably sounded better in my head than it actually does).

Square brackets are awesome, also. People should use them more.

You know, apart from the punctuation, that was probably the most professionally crafted train-of-thought writing style I've read in ages. And I've thoroughly gobbled up Arthur Schnitzler's (pretty much the Austrian God of that genre, if you don't know him. Shame on you.) works since I first heard of them. Anyway: Humorous, eloquent and with a point. Well done, dude.

Apart from the needless wanking over writing style, that guy has a point. It's all fine and dandy to say you don't give a shit about what people think. In the end, if you're as mentally messed up as I am (and probably Wiðercora is) I'd go for really not giving a shit. Helps with social anxiety a lot. Speaking from experience. Gone from anxious to miserable cynic and I'm quite happy with it.

OK, I'm probably indulging in a bit of hyperbole here, as I'm not diagnosed with any sort of social problem. I'm uneasy with crowds, don't make friends easily and all that pap, but I wouldn't put my little problems on the same level you seem to experience. Just trying to empathise here and maybe getting a helpful word or two out there.


All in all, that's just a long-winded way of saying: really.

MacIver wrote:
Hey xtra. Fellow social phobic here with a tendency for depression!

+1.

LIFE wrote:
Forget dating sites. Women usually get overwhelmed with messages whilst guys usually don't get any at all. Meaning you have to try really hard to get ones attention. Unless it's written in a creative way it will be forgotten pretty quickly. Oh and some studies have shown that the amount of fake accounts on such sites is pretty high! Might be another reason why you didn't get replies. Don't get too frustrated on how people might behave on the internet

This. Most of the women I've met in person from those sites had some really strange personalities. I'd stay away.

Macroinvertebrate wrote:This. Most of the women I've met in person from those sites had some really strange personalities. I'd stay away.

I'm not sure this is exclusive to dating sites (if you replace 'women' with 'people' that is)

Nah, mate. That's just you attracting weird people of any gender. Just look at the mod team.

You're right.

Most people are fairly vacuous. Clubs are annoying places to be, unless you're there to dance in a crowd or get drunk. Chicks can reject you.

On the up side, there are 7 billion people on the planet and the chances are that at least some percentage of them will be interesting & interested in you. Joining a club of some sort of thing you're interested in is a good place to meet people & women.

P.S. Don't mix alcohol & psy meds too often, it ain't good for you.

Here's a thought - try this. If it doesn't work, you lose nothing. Well, maybe a bit of money. But nobody gets to think you're a creep, or a loser, or anything bad. At worst, women will think you're nice, and that's a good place to start. No really it is.

Just chill out. Stop trying. For the next six months (yes, that long - bulk buy boxes of tissues or something, just accept it) don't ask a woman out on a date. If one asks you, feel free to say yes, but you don't get to ask. That's the first bit.

Second thing. Practice being nice, but don't wait around for the effect. If you compliment a woman, she may like it, but she might think it creepy if you hang around after making it, without a follow up. But if you're unsure about your follow-up technique, it's probably best not to hang around & ruin things! So look at her approvingly, say "Wow! Um, sorry" and walk away as if slightly embarassed, 'cos she was just so hot, and you just couldn't help yourself, but it's not a pick-up line, honest, because you're walking away. And don't look back. Don't ever fucking look back, just keep on walking. Open doors for women. All women. Not just the pretty ones. Definitely for the less than pretty ones. Tell them it's your good deed for the day. Then walk away. Just walk away, and don't look back. Ever. Like Lot's wife should've done, and if you don't know about her, ask rainbow or Jireh or someone - yes, even they have their uses

Practice being more than just 'nice', be pro-actively pro-social. Someone in need of some help - give it. Refuse any thanks or payment. Help, then leave. Just walk away. Don't do it ignorantly, make it casual, as if it's just the sort of thing you do. And pick your moments carefully, or this could get expensive. Here's a couple of examples. You're in a queue at a sandwich bar. You pay, collect your change, and as you step to one side for the next person to be served, she announces she's not got the right change. If you've got it in your hand, place it on the counter, and walk away. Don't look back, just walk away. You're behind a woman at the car park ticket machine, which is rejecting her coins. Make sure you've spare change, offer the coins. Refuse the ones she's tried & the machine has refused (they're probably counterfeit anyway, but don't say so, she doesn't know, and saying so will just spoil the effect), just a 'that's alright, no worries, my good deed for the day'. Get your ticket, and walk away, don't look back. If it's a bloke, with a girlfriend, do the same, but maybe '... no worries mate, ...', just to emphasise you're a bloke, and definitely not a gay one. Don't look back at him. Ever!

Why? Women notice stuff. A bloke who's nice, helpful, but not hanging around, hoping for something in return - what a breath of fresh air. You might bump into them again at some point; you've already made an impression, and mostly a good one (assuming they remember you, and if it's not too long since, they will). BTW, if you do bump into them, just be cool, and nice. Did I mention nice? And the bloke at the car park? He's got a girlfriend, who's got friends who are also girls. And he might have a sister. And even the girls who remember you who you don't fancy, may well have a friend you will.

To make it work, you need to be out in the places they might be in the evening. Develop a critical mass of women who notice that you're the bloke who said this, did that, helped with something, or paid for their sandwich, without trying to use it as a means of getting in their knickers. And when they speak to you, be nice, a little self-deprecating (but don't over-do it), and just see where it goes. Hopefully you won't have to look back.

BTW, you're also practicing some social encounters, engaging with the opposite sex, and doing so without risk of rejection. Know though that you've had an effect, made an impact, and that they'll be talking about you, in a good way. So chill out. Stop worrying. Things are getting better already.

LIFE wrote:

Macroinvertebrate wrote:This. Most of the women I've met in person from those sites had some really strange personalities. I'd stay away.

I'm not sure this is exclusive to dating sites (if you replace 'women' with 'people' that is)

Maybe not. I'm just relating my experience. This was at least a decade ago or so...