Goldenmane's Third Rule of Public Discourse

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Goldenmane's Third Rule of Public Discourse

#1  Postby Keep It Real » Aug 26, 2016 8:48 pm

I seem to remember it roughly means that people only pretend to take offence at belligerent posts because their arguments are flawed. Seems to me that belief in this rule perpetuates belligerent posting which is a turnoff for many. I also find it to be untrue, in that some people sometimes genuinely withdraw from discourse because the belligerence and foul language of their interlocutor is too much to tolerate, regardless of the veracity of their arguments. Thoughts?
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Goldenmane's Third Rule of Public Discourse

#2  Postby felltoearth » Aug 26, 2016 8:52 pm

Link to it for a refresher?
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Re: Goldenmane's Third Rule of Public Discourse

#4  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Aug 26, 2016 9:03 pm

Unfortunately his blog seems to have been hacked and automatically redirects, even circumventing ad-block and ghostery.
It's fortunately posted elsewhere:
http://atheistfoundation.org.au/forums/showpost.php?p=365692&postcount=1
One of the views shared by many who have posted on the apposite forums over the years was formulated by the user Calilasseia thusly: ‘Bad ideas exist to be destroyed.’ Indeed, this is the central thread that links this collection of writings, disparate as they may otherwise be.

Many of the essays included in this collection also share another similarity: the use of what may be considered, by some, profanity. Also know as swearing, cursing, and foul or bad language.

The often liberal use of expletives in some of these tracts may appear gratuitous and immature, even offensive. The reader is advised to bear in mind the aforementioned notion: bad ideas exist to be destroyed, in this case formulated as what has become known as Goldenmane’s Third Rule of Public Discourse, commonly referred to as Rule #3: swear a lot.

Rule #3 was formulated initially as a joke, the point being that it serves as a way of distinguishing between those conversational opponents who were capable of addressing an argument intellectually, rationally, and logically, and those who were governed entirely by emotion. The key here is to realise that those governed by emotion would be those who would be offended (and loudly) by the use of words like fuck, cunt, shit, piss, arsehole, and sundry others. Such people would tend to leave a debate or conversation in high dudgeon, complaining loudly about the language their interlocutors were using. So much the better. There is little worth in continuing a discussion with someone who bases their entire position on emotion, and it’s all to the good if they can be induced to chuck the shits and storm out, since it starkly highlights the intellectual vacuity of their entire approach.

What started as a jest (as all good jests do) rapidly developed more profound ramifications. For example: the words used to refer to swearing (including, tellingly, “swearing”) reveal an unholy (or perhaps overly holy) reliance upon certain magical notions. ‘Cursing’, ‘swearing’, ‘using God’s name in vain’ and the like all rest upon the rather quaint and somewhat silly notion that words have magical power. Whilst words do have power (the power to communicate ideas being primary), there’s no evidence whatsofuckingever to suggest that incantations can make shit magically happen.

The idea that certain combinations of sounds (always culturally determined) can have inherent magically ‘bad’ properties is, to be blunt, bullshit. Most such words from around the world’s different cultures are related to one of two things: fucking and shitting. Why these two essential processes for a complex sexually-reliant species that needs to eat should become the ‘bad’ words I’m not going to debate here. Suffice it to say that from a rational modern perspective, it’s a little bizarre. But I’ll work with it. It’s my fucking medium, after all.

Bad ideas exist to be destroyed. The notion that words can inherently be bad is a bad idea. It springs from primitive beliefs about words being magical. Similarly, the intellectual coward’s retreat from debate under the banner of ‘my opponent swears’ is rooted in the same notion. It also provides them with an easy escape route, and in this sense it is offered up as a service: allowing them to exit with the personal sense that they have retained the moral high ground, even if they have been unable to support their own arguments.

What renders the whole notion of ‘bad language’ truly ludicrous is that words are just effectively arbitrary collections of sounds (or letters, if written down). Start with ‘c’. Add a ‘t’: ‘ct’. Add a ‘u’: ‘cut’ Wow, we now have a word that we recognise. There’s nothing bad about the word, just as there’s nothing bad about the letters it is made from. Now add an ‘n’: cnut.

That should, properly, be rendered Cnut, it being a proper noun. Chap is famous for arguing with the sea, or something. The sea, of course, ignored him, because words aren’t actually magical. Changing Cnut around a little makes him a cunt. Where’s the fucking magic?

In writing this, I have been reminded to add a little explanation of Rules 1 and 2. An explanation was posted some time ago. Here it is, and I hope the reader gains some understanding:

Sweet juicy Mohammed on Satan's glistening prong, you want comedy and explanations on demand?

I can give you the explanation, but I can't guarantee the comedy. I've got stage fright, and as everyone knows stage fright causes the balls to shrink and try to hide in the body, and as everyone also knows the balls are where the comedy glands reside, which is why (as Hitchens so rightly pointed out) women aren't funny. Unless they have balls. Evidence of this, in case anyone was wondering, is there to be seen. Just look at the scrotum. Take a long, hard (or flaccid, depending on your proclivities) look, and tell me that the scrotum isn't fucking funny. You'll be lying if you say it isn't. The scrotum is like the world's most honest packaging. It says, "Here be comedy. There is literally and categorically nothing as funny as this.

It's an evolutionary thing. Dick Dawkins even touched on it (well, there's really no other way to put it, is there? No quote mines, please, I won't have it said that Dick touches his, or any other, scrotum any more than strictly necessary) in The Greatest Show on Earth, where he points to the completely ridiculous path the vas deferens takes. It's fucking bizarre and surreal. Any designer who came up with that and was still responsible for the entirety of everything is a joker on a colossal scale. It's the only possible answer that isn't pants-shittingly terrifying. And as it is, it's minor-incident-of-bowel-incontinence scary. You wonder why God is referred to as He? It can only be because the fucker's a sadistic practical joker, with testicles the size of... well, how do you measure such balls?

The other option is that He doesn't exist, of course, but some well-known people have, historically, bet against that.

Anyway, enough (as the sage said) of that guff: Rule #3. The strict name of said rule is Goldenmane's 3rd Rule of Public Discourse, and stackhishash has quoted the short form verbatim: Swear a lot. The reasons are, I hope, obvious, and need no further explanation. Rules #1 and #2 are both the same as, and yet separate from, Rule #3. Simply put, Rule #1 dictates the rules (whilst being identical to Rule #3) and Rule #2 fucks about in the background somehow making globules of retarded effluent seem to mean something that gives Rule #3 its efficacy.

To put it another way, Rules 1,2 and 3 are the same goddamn rule, but invoking Rule #3 is all that is needed to have a cock-suckingly good life, and if you fucking well understand Rule #3, you'll stop asking for explanations. Fuck.


NOTE: Rule 3 is not about personal abuse. That rule stands. Swear a lot, but bear in mind Goldenmane's Exposition On Rule Fucking Three.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Goldenmane's Third Rule of Public Discourse

#5  Postby tuco » Aug 26, 2016 9:05 pm

‘Bad ideas exist to be destroyed.’


I am lead to believe that this is the crux of the issue here. Swearing or not is just .. dressing.
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Re: Goldenmane's Third Rule of Public Discourse

#6  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Aug 26, 2016 9:09 pm

tuco wrote:
‘Bad ideas exist to be destroyed.’


I am lead to believe that this is the crux of the issue here. Swearing or not is just .. dressing.

Which is the point I was making to KIR, which apparently prompted him to start this thread.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Goldenmane's Third Rule of Public Discourse

#7  Postby tuco » Aug 26, 2016 9:40 pm

I guess we would find that individual understanding of what is meant by "to be destroyed" next in hierarchy of the issue in question. To me its a catch phrase, militant catch phrase. In reality, bad ideas will cease to exist, will be selected for extinction. But what is the difference between to cease to exist and to be destroyed? Attitude.
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Re: Goldenmane's Third Rule of Public Discourse

#8  Postby laklak » Aug 27, 2016 1:40 am

He's fucking right.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. - Mark Twain
The sky is falling! The sky is falling! - Chicken Little
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Re: Goldenmane's Third Rule of Public Discourse

#9  Postby SafeAsMilk » Aug 27, 2016 1:46 am

Bad ideas flourish all the time. You might argue that they'll be "selected for extinction" eventually, but they can do a lot of damage in the meantime. "To be destroyed" implies that someone is destroying them. Militant perhaps, but encouraging the deconstruction and obliteration of bad ideas is surely a good thing.
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Re: Goldenmane's Third Rule of Public Discourse

#10  Postby surreptitious57 » Aug 27, 2016 2:09 am

All ideas have to be taken apart for that is the only way to determine their validity. Then the good ones are
kept and the bad ones discarded. However the problem is that there is no universal consensus on which are
good and which are bad so debunking is an eternal work in progress. There is no point at which it can stop
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Re: Goldenmane's Third Rule of Public Discourse

#11  Postby Agrippina » Aug 27, 2016 9:16 am

Telling people not to swear, and that swearing is a sign of being "vocabularically challenged" (yes I did just invent that phrase, feel free to correct the spelling if you like), is a bad idea.

Science says!
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Re: Goldenmane's Third Rule of Public Discourse

#12  Postby laklak » Aug 27, 2016 2:13 pm

Hit the fucking nail on the fucking head, Aggie.
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Re: Goldenmane's Third Rule of Public Discourse

#13  Postby Bernoulli » Aug 27, 2016 2:13 pm

‘Bad ideas exist to be destroyed'? Cool story, bro. Really.
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Re: Goldenmane's Third Rule of Public Discourse

#14  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Aug 27, 2016 2:30 pm

Bernoulli wrote:‘Bad ideas exist to be destroyed'? Cool story, bro. Really.

I take it you don't agree?
Care to elaborate?
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Goldenmane's Third Rule of Public Discourse

#15  Postby Bernoulli » Aug 27, 2016 3:12 pm

Nothing exists for any reason. It just exists.
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Re: Goldenmane's Third Rule of Public Discourse

#16  Postby Bernoulli » Aug 27, 2016 3:12 pm

Bad ideas exist because they exist.
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Re: Goldenmane's Third Rule of Public Discourse

#17  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Aug 27, 2016 3:21 pm

Bernoulli wrote:Nothing exists for any reason. It just exists.

Not if you subscribe to the notion of rational skepticism, ie questioning everything that isn't demonstrated to be true.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Goldenmane's Third Rule of Public Discourse

#18  Postby thaesofereode » Aug 27, 2016 3:25 pm

Bernoulli wrote:Bad ideas exist because they exist.


I would tend to concur on this. Bad ideas exist as much as good ideas do. It's a nice sentiment that the "bad" ones could be destroyed in some way, or are somehow destined to fail. But life experience and a small acquaintance with history has me thinking that all ideas, good or bad, are essentially indestructible in that they can have a life of their own for so long as there is wetware to acquire and carry them. Kind of like you "can't un-ring that bell." What's more, as I'm sure the folks who spend a lot of time in the philosophy threads could tell us, "good" and "bad" are rather subjective.

So. Seems to me that all ideas are simply there --- good, bad, or otherwise. What matters is what we DO WITH them, n'est-ce pas?
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Re: Goldenmane's Third Rule of Public Discourse

#19  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Aug 27, 2016 3:45 pm

thaesofereode wrote:
Bernoulli wrote:Bad ideas exist because they exist.


I would tend to concur on this. Bad ideas exist as much as good ideas do. It's a nice sentiment that the "bad" ones could be destroyed in some way, or are somehow destined to fail. But life experience and a small acquaintance with history has me thinking that all ideas, good or bad, are essentially indestructible in that they can have a life of their own for so long as there is wetware to acquire and carry them. Kind of like you "can't un-ring that bell." What's more, as I'm sure the folks who spend a lot of time in the philosophy threads could tell us, "good" and "bad" are rather subjective.

So. Seems to me that all ideas are simply there --- good, bad, or otherwise. What matters is what we DO WITH them, n'est-ce pas?

Which is what is meant by 'bad ideas exist to be destroyed'; that they should always be challenged.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Goldenmane's Third Rule of Public Discourse

#20  Postby laklak » Aug 27, 2016 3:50 pm

Well, most bad ideas. I've seen some "hold my beer and watch this" moments that you wouldn't want to destroy, and in fact you'd want to post on youtube.
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