Is Science Too Expensive?

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Is Science Too Expensive?

#1  Postby UltimoReducto » Mar 06, 2018 11:49 pm

Science needs more funding.

But non-Science needs more funding even more. Starving children can’t eat a test tube. Everything competes for scarce resources. So it would be a crime to give Science more funding, at the expense of something else, based on what it needs rather than what it earns. But if we want more science, we can certainly have it, by making science cheaper.

I think Science is being made artificially expensive, just like Hollywood movies. They didn’t used to cost $500,000,000 and not even be able to afford a tripod. It’s the cartel premise. Replacing competition with cooperation gives you control. Most studies are not reproducible. Most people wouldn’t even want them done in the first place. A recent survey about the 75% lesbian obesity rate cost 8 figures. You could give every lesbian on the planet a gym membership for that price. It didn’t even investigate biological factors like hormones. No, an ethics board didn’t strike that down; it was never in the plans to begin with. It was just a questionnaire passed out to a handful of lesbian people. I could do it for the price of the stamps. Why on Earth did it cost so much?

That’s not an exceptional case, but Biology in particular has been softened across the board, and this facilitates both industry, and government programs to push unqualified people into STEM. More people competing for laboratory and journal space directly drives up cost. Less rigor drives up fraud. The tobacco science model was never the real scam. Industry doesn’t pay off a few scientists here and there. They pay the university. The university compartmentalizes bureaucratic Scientists, and then the politicians who run their trade associations do the speaking on their behalf. More money makes Science more of a honey pot.

Science needs zero funding and it needs to go to jail for all the funding it has wasted thus far. Let’s take the money out of Science and give it back to we the people.

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Re: Is Science Too Expensive?

#2  Postby Thommo » Mar 07, 2018 12:01 am

It rather feels like you're being deliberately silly.
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Re: Is Science Too Expensive?

#3  Postby Keep It Real » Mar 07, 2018 12:04 am

If there were enough more investment of resources in social science research/implementation there would be 0 starving children before long.
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Re: Is Science Too Expensive?

#4  Postby MarkS » Mar 07, 2018 12:06 am

OK I'll bite.

Science has made it possible to feed 7 billion people, those children would all be dead if it wasn't for the huge improvements in food production efficiency over the last 60 -70 years. Novel technologies make everything more efficient (including the means to kill more efficiently of course) and save many many times the money put into research. Plus you don't know which research will ultimately pay off in a completely different area. Your lesbian example may lead to something completely unexpected that benefits everyone.

I don't know if you are entirely serious but I would have to question the motives of someone who wished to curtail research into areas they perceive as "PC gone mad" or whatever.
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Re: Is Science Too Expensive?

#5  Postby Cito di Pense » Mar 07, 2018 6:31 am

Keep It Real wrote:If there were enough more investment of resources in social science research/implementation there would be 0 starving children before long.


You know why that is, don't you? It's because too many social scientists are chasing what basically is still a shit-ton of funding. Do you have any idea how much easier it is to become a psychobabbler than it is to become a scientist? If you have any economic theory at your disposal, you'll know how to pursue the consequences of this bit of wisdom.

But let's look at your conjecture, for a moment. As soon as we solve the problem of too many starving children, we are going to encounter the problem of not having enough toys and playing fields to go around. They're not making any more new real estate, unless you want to send those kids to Mars, like Elon Musk does. Mars ain't the kind of place to raise your kids. In fact, it's cold as hell. Me, KIR? I'm childless, so I'm not contributing to the problem of starving kids in one very specific way.
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Re: Is Science Too Expensive?

#6  Postby zulumoose » Mar 07, 2018 6:47 am

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Re: Is Science Too Expensive?

#7  Postby Blackadder » Mar 07, 2018 9:07 am

Co-operation already takes place in large scale science projects. How many countries are involved in the LHC? To say there is no co-operation is untrue.

Competition on smaller scale research, particularly in areas where there are potential commercial applications, yields spectacularly faster results than centrally planned efforts. I’d like to know which centrally planned economy came up with the semi-conductor, LCDs, MRI, cellphones, GPS and fibre-optic broadband. I’m not saying that centrally planned economies didn’t research these areas or couldn’t turn them into useful applications. But if you want to turn research into usable technology and put it into the hands of ordinary people, the fastest way is to have a commercial incentive and that means allowing competition.
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Re: Is Science Too Expensive?

#8  Postby Rumraket » Mar 07, 2018 10:19 am

UltimoReducto wrote: But if we want more science, we can certainly have it, by making science cheaper.

How?
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Re: Is Science Too Expensive?

#9  Postby newolder » Mar 07, 2018 11:08 am

World expenditure on "Research and Development" in 2015 was below 2.25% of GDP*. Too expensive, my arse.

*World Bank source
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Re: Is Science Too Expensive?

#10  Postby Macdoc » Mar 07, 2018 6:20 pm

by making science cheaper.

Most scientists I know work for a relative pittance ....they are poorly served by society as far as job security and pay.

BTW cheaper is not always better .......science doesn't work on the lowest bidder crap.

How about ranting about overpaid politicians and bankers instead of hard working scientists..
..I'm beginning to think you are a right wing troll given this kind of nonsense.
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Re: Is Science Too Expensive?

#11  Postby Seabass » Mar 07, 2018 8:12 pm

I would have become a scientist had I known I could make 8 figures by studying a handful of lesbian people.
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Re: Is Science Too Expensive?

#12  Postby laklak » Mar 07, 2018 8:22 pm

They spent that much money to study fat lesbians? FFS, take a trip to Asheville and go to Malaprops bookstore for an afternoon Erotic Feminist Poetry Reading. Take notes. And bring one of those sticky lint roller things, your jacket is gonna be covered in leg hair.
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Re: Is Science Too Expensive?

#13  Postby The_Piper » Mar 07, 2018 8:38 pm

I have relatives in Ayasheviyull. :shifty:
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Re: Is Science Too Expensive?

#14  Postby Oldskeptic » Mar 07, 2018 8:47 pm

UltimoReducto wrote:Science needs more funding.

But non-Science needs more funding even more. Starving children can’t eat a test tube.


No, but they can certainly eat genetically modified foods and drink clean water and pastuerized milk.

UltimoReducto wrote: Everything competes for scarce resources.


I think someone's been watching too many David Attenborough nature films.

UltimoReducto wrote:I think Science is being made artificially expensive, just like Hollywood movies. They didn’t used to cost $500,000,000 and not even be able to afford a tripod. It’s the cartel premise. Replacing competition with cooperation gives you control. Most studies are not reproducible. Most people wouldn’t even want them done in the first place. A recent survey about the 75% lesbian obesity rate cost 8 figures. You could give every lesbian on the planet a gym membership for that price. It didn’t even investigate biological factors like hormones. No, an ethics board didn’t strike that down; it was never in the plans to begin with. It was just a questionnaire passed out to a handful of lesbian people. I could do it for the price of the stamps. Why on Earth did it cost so much?


It didn't,it cost ~$700,000 a year for five years - $3,500,000 in total, not somewhere in the 8 figures range. Nor was it merely a "questionnaire passed out to a handful of lesbians".

Just wondering - Are you planning on staying on here after Teague's suspension is up?
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Re: Is Science Too Expensive?

#15  Postby SkyMutt » Mar 07, 2018 11:39 pm

Somebody from the US focussing on the amount spent on science, and self-righteously declaring that science funding should be eliminated entirely is comically absurd. Thanks for the laugh.
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Re: Is Science Too Expensive?

#16  Postby surreptitious57 » Mar 07, 2018 11:39 pm

UltimoReducto wrote:
Science needs zero funding and it needs to go to jail for all the funding it has wasted thus far. Let us take the money
out of Science and give it back to we the people

So no funding for research into cancer or malaria or AIDS or every other currently incurable disease. Or for testing new pharmaceuticals. Or for training the next generation of surgeons and doctors and nurses. Or for building new hospitals
Simply give all the money back to the people and everything will be just fine

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Do you know what a world totally devoid of science would actually look like
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Re: Is Science Too Expensive?

#17  Postby BlackBart » Mar 08, 2018 7:05 am

I wanna say something on the internet! I wanna say something on the internet! Um....um...um... Science...is um...too ...um....expensive!!! Yeah that's right!! Science is too expensive!!! So there!!!!
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Re: Is Science Too Expensive?

#18  Postby Cito di Pense » Mar 08, 2018 7:15 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Do you know what a world totally devoid of science would actually look like


Yeah. There would be no guns, knives, or nooses to shoot, behead, or hang the evildoers.
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Re: Is Science Too Expensive?

#19  Postby aban57 » Mar 08, 2018 10:54 am

UltimoReducto wrote: A recent survey about the 75% lesbian obesity rate cost 8 figures. You could give every lesbian on the planet a gym membership for that price.


How would you know this is a good solution if you don't study the subject first ?
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Re: Is Science Too Expensive?

#20  Postby felltoearth » Mar 08, 2018 11:11 am

aban57 wrote:
UltimoReducto wrote: A recent survey about the 75% lesbian obesity rate cost 8 figures. You could give every lesbian on the planet a gym membership for that price.


How would you know this is a good solution if you don't study the subject first ?

I would like a citation for the study. I'm calling BS.
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