I just wonder why France and South Africa are so worried about those 2200 deaths in the US. Fun to hate? Fun to stereotype?

It's not easy to tease the figures out of the FBI Uniform Crime Reports. It's almost like they don't want you to realize that unless you live in a shit area of a big city, are involved in a gang, are a heavy drug user or dealer, or are suicidal, your chances of getting murdered are about in line with any European country. One could be forgiven for thinking they have an agenda.

I'm not excusing the murder rate, or saying people in the ghetto (or druggies, or gangstas) are less deserving of life, liberty, safety, or whatever - only pointing out that the vast majority of us do not dodge bullets every day.

laklak wrote:It's not easy to tease the figures out of the FBI Uniform Crime Reports. It's almost like they don't want you to realize that unless you live in a shit area of a big city, are involved in a gang, are a heavy drug user or dealer, or are suicidal, your chances of getting murdered are about in line with any European country. One could be forgiven for thinking they have an agenda.

I'm not excusing the murder rate, or saying people in the ghetto (or druggies, or gangstas) are less deserving of life, liberty, safety, or whatever - only pointing out that the vast majority of us do not dodge bullets every day.

It took some digging to get the breakdowns on murder. Interesting that is.

I'm more interested in the poverty/gang/drug connection and mental illness. If a guy is a druggy, and most that are mental ill either got from mental illness to drugs or the other way around, Then the police are the primary caregivers. We have an attitude about people who do drugs and I don't think it's serving us. People who don't use get a little horny delight in a drug bust and the imprisonment that follows.

Maybe this is why guns are taking the spotlight here? Idiocy and ignorance about the mechanics of violence in the US as a cover to the real concessions we need to make? I always get a strange feeling when I become the ignorant bad guy in these talks.

Let me go put on my righteous indignation hat and I'll be right back to yell more about all that.

Intentional Homicide rates
US 4.8/100 000
Most of Europe ~1/100 000 at least excluding post Soviet regions.

according to Wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... icide_rate

Yes. And when you remove homicides committed over drugs, by gangs, by lunatics, and in the inner city ghettos that rate drops close to Europe. Perhaps the easy availability of guns is a factor, but it's not the driving one.

It's a systematic set of problems, involving drugs (and the war on it), economic inequality, gang culture, racism, mental illness, inner city rot, and a host of other issues. But it's easier to focus on guns, rather than have the uncomfortable discussion about the real problems. The left (some of it, anyway) sees it as a simple issue - get rid of the guns. Some on the right also see it as a simple problem - it's self-inflicted and if those people would just get a goddamn job it would sort them out. Both are wrong. I don't know what is right or what might work, but I do know it's not as simple as it's portrayed.

laklak wrote:Yes. And when you remove homicides committed over drugs, by gangs, by lunatics, and in the inner city ghettos that rate drops close to Europe. Perhaps the easy availability of guns is a factor, but it's not the driving one.

It's a systematic set of problems, involving drugs (and the war on it), economic inequality, gang culture, racism, mental illness, inner city rot, and a host of other issues. But it's easier to focus on guns, rather than have the uncomfortable discussion about the real problems. The left (some of it, anyway) sees it as a simple issue - get rid of the guns. Some on the right also see it as a simple problem - it's self-inflicted and if those people would just get a goddamn job it would sort them out. Both are wrong. I don't know what is right or what might work, but I do know it's not as simple as it's portrayed.

You're right, it's not a simple problem, and focusing on guns somehow alleviates the focus on other problems. To me, it's due to the frustration that, compared to the other problems you mention, guns is relatively easy to take care. Not solve entirely of course. But a few measures would already have a positive effect, and the NRA and republicans won't allow even that.

SpeedOfSound wrote:I just wonder why France and South Africa are so worried about those 2200 deaths in the US. Fun to hate? Fun to stereotype?

Funny how you re-use Cito's argument from a page ago