Man plans home-made rocket trip to prove flat Earth.

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Re: Man plans home-made rocket trip to prove flat Earth.

#101  Postby romansh » Nov 27, 2017 5:06 pm

John Platko wrote:
romansh wrote:
John Platko wrote: There's nothing wrong with trying to understand the point of view of others.

Other than posting crap where did you increase understanding of their point of view?


Re-read the thread and you'll find out.

I did.
And I have no idea why people do really crappy experiments or dream up impossible schemes to confirm their flat earth biases.
At least not from your posts.
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Re: Man plans home-made rocket trip to prove flat Earth.

#102  Postby GrahamH » Nov 27, 2017 5:08 pm

John Platko wrote:
I certainly believe some of these people are doing science as best they can. Where science is the common definition of:

the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.


Furthermore, if they are earnest about this, (and some certainly appear to be to me) then they are likely to learn something by doing experiments.


If only. Theye aren't systematic. They have no null hypothesis and no clue about a hypothesis they are testing. Many don't even make sensible measurements. They have evidently not considered the established science before larking about.

Take the "moon not lit by the Sun" loon. He claims to have the sun at his back as he faces the Moon and says he turns 180 degrees when it's clear from the video that as he pans down from the Moon he does not pick up his shadow and has to turn about 90 degrees to find it. He makes no measurement. Everything shown is consistent with the well known reality of a the solar system.

Can anyone be that stupid? Probably not. He is probably posting nonsense he knows is nonsense to get a reaction, and maybe have a laugh at anyone who takes it seriously. If he knew you posted it here he would probably be :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Man plans home-made rocket trip to prove flat Earth.

#103  Postby John Platko » Nov 27, 2017 5:14 pm

GrahamH wrote:
John Platko wrote: it's the universe that's flat. ;)


Wouldn't "branching" be a better description for you to use?


It depends on what characteristic you're talking about but it seems to me that all the branches of the many worlds are flat. But please keep in mind that I haven't actually done any experiments to demonstrate that is the way it is- yet. ;)
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Re: Man plans home-made rocket trip to prove flat Earth.

#104  Postby John Platko » Nov 27, 2017 5:18 pm

GrahamH wrote:
John Platko wrote:
romansh wrote:
John Platko wrote: There's nothing wrong with trying to understand the point of view of others.

Other than posting crap where did you increase understanding of their point of view?


Re-read the thread and you'll find out. There were questions about why flat earthers believed what they believed and I posted some links to vides that presented their view and then I add a few clarifications. As I said in my initial post, there was an article in the Boston Globe a while back that caught my eye, in a :wtf: sort of way that explained their point of view.



You don't think these people believe in a flat Earth because of such (unscientific) 'experiments', do you? I think they post this bunk to defend their faith. Not to convince sceptics, not to find out for themselves but more like the apologists post crap arguments, to at least have a pretence of evidence/reason when they have no hope of the real thing.


A science experiment doesn't have to be interpreted correctly to be a valid experiment. Sometimes misunderstandings creep into these things and it takes time to work out the kinks.
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Re: Man plans home-made rocket trip to prove flat Earth.

#105  Postby GrahamH » Nov 27, 2017 5:22 pm

John Platko wrote:
A science experiment doesn't have to be interpreted correctly to be a valid experiment. Sometimes misunderstandings creep into these things and it takes time to work out the kinks.



Misunderstanding haven't 'crept in' with these guys. They are obviously clueless or disingenuous.

In the Internet age there is no excuse for not knowing the most basic facts, theories and state of the art.
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Re: Man plans home-made rocket trip to prove flat Earth.

#106  Postby John Platko » Nov 27, 2017 5:24 pm

romansh wrote:
John Platko wrote:
I sincerely apologize if anything I posted caused someone to seriously doubt the world is a globe.

Completely disingenuous John.


:nono: It would trouble me if I somehow contributed to someone actually believing the world is flat. On the other hand, I don't apologize to anyone who blames me for whatever emotional issue the topic may stir up in them - that's not on me, that's up to them to work out for themselves.
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Re: Man plans home-made rocket trip to prove flat Earth.

#107  Postby romansh » Nov 27, 2017 5:26 pm

John Platko wrote:
romansh wrote:
John Platko wrote:
I sincerely apologize if anything I posted caused someone to seriously doubt the world is a globe.

Completely disingenuous John.


:nono: It would trouble me if I somehow contributed to someone actually believing the world is flat. On the other hand, I don't apologize to anyone who blames me for whatever emotional issue the topic may stir up in them - that's not on me, that's up to them to work out for themselves.

Still being disingenuous John.
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Re: Man plans home-made rocket trip to prove flat Earth.

#108  Postby John Platko » Nov 27, 2017 5:27 pm

romansh wrote:
John Platko wrote:
romansh wrote:
John Platko wrote: There's nothing wrong with trying to understand the point of view of others.

Other than posting crap where did you increase understanding of their point of view?


Re-read the thread and you'll find out.

I did.
And I have no idea why people do really crappy experiments or dream up impossible schemes to confirm their flat earth biases.
At least not from your posts.


I wasn't explaining their psychology, I was explaining their theory and the evidence they use to defend it. And that evidence seems scientific to at least some of them.
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Re: Man plans home-made rocket trip to prove flat Earth.

#109  Postby romansh » Nov 27, 2017 5:29 pm

John Platko wrote:
romansh wrote:
John Platko wrote:
romansh wrote:
Other than posting crap where did you increase understanding of their point of view?


Re-read the thread and you'll find out.

I did.
And I have no idea why people do really crappy experiments or dream up impossible schemes to confirm their flat earth biases.
At least not from your posts.


I wasn't explaining their psychology, I was explaining their theory and the evidence they use to defend it. And that evidence seems scientific to at least some of them.

You did no such thing. All you did was post videos.
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Re: Man plans home-made rocket trip to prove flat Earth.

#110  Postby kiore » Nov 27, 2017 5:39 pm

Anyway, back on the topic of the OP, 'Rocket guy' seems to have only discovered the flat earth angle when he needed some funding for his rocket, and they have provided cash. I intend to approach them with a project where I need 30m schooner outfitted for a circumnavigation of the disc to discover the ice wall and stuff.
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Re: Man plans home-made rocket trip to prove flat Earth.

#111  Postby felltoearth » Nov 27, 2017 5:40 pm

John Platko wrote: snip - reality is a good teacher - if nothing else you usually learn how hard it is to do shit.


Well no shit. I believe I already covered reality for you but you continued shit posting. Quit JAQing off.
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Re: Man plans home-made rocket trip to prove flat Earth.

#112  Postby John Platko » Nov 27, 2017 5:41 pm

GrahamH wrote:
John Platko wrote:
I certainly believe some of these people are doing science as best they can. Where science is the common definition of:

the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.


Furthermore, if they are earnest about this, (and some certainly appear to be to me) then they are likely to learn something by doing experiments.


If only. Theye aren't systematic. They have no null hypothesis and no clue about a hypothesis they are testing. Many don't even make sensible measurements. They have evidently not considered the established science before larking about.


Some of the laser experiments across water seem like sincere efforts to me. They get an idea, they try to test it, things don't work out like they thought they would for one reason or another, they re-group and try again. I certainly didn't get the impression they're fudging data.

It's true they discount established science - they believe they are being lied to. The interesting question to me is why are people believing they are being lied to in such a systematic way.



Take the "moon not lit by the Sun" loon. He claims to have the sun at his back as he faces the Moon and says he turns 180 degrees when it's clear from the video that as he pans down from the Moon he does not pick up his shadow and has to turn about 90 degrees to find it. He makes no measurement. Everything shown is consistent with the well known reality of a the solar system.


I couldn't tell one way or another from that video what the actual relationships were for sure. I didn't get the impression he was lying though - perhaps I'm gullible. :dunno:



Can anyone be that stupid?


:nod: and way more stupid than that. That's a fact!


Probably not. He is probably posting nonsense he knows is nonsense to get a reaction, and maybe have a laugh at anyone who takes it seriously. If he knew you posted it here he would probably be :lol: :lol: :lol:


Some of the flat earthers may be going for that but I think some people are being sincere. People in my life believe all sorts of crazy stuff - and not just the bread and fish out of nothing religious stuff. Stuff about how Pluto effects their life. This flat earth stuff falls in the range of normal human :crazy: as far as I can tell. If you grow up in a family and culture of flat earthers I imagine it's about as normal a thing to believe as a virgin birth.
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Re: Man plans home-made rocket trip to prove flat Earth.

#113  Postby felltoearth » Nov 27, 2017 5:43 pm

John Platko wrote:
Some of the laser experiments across water seem like sincere efforts to me.


News flash, there are sincere and stupid people in the world.
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Re: Man plans home-made rocket trip to prove flat Earth.

#114  Postby John Platko » Nov 27, 2017 5:45 pm

GrahamH wrote:
John Platko wrote:
A science experiment doesn't have to be interpreted correctly to be a valid experiment. Sometimes misunderstandings creep into these things and it takes time to work out the kinks.



Misunderstanding haven't 'crept in' with these guys. They are obviously clueless or disingenuous.


That's your interpretation.



In the Internet age there is no excuse for not knowing the most basic facts, theories and state of the art.


To know the basic facts you have to have a certain faith that the scientific community is basically trustworthy, i.e. self correcting over time. But what happens when you don't have that faith? You try what seems like an obvious experiment to you and get fooled by something you don't understand.
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Re: Man plans home-made rocket trip to prove flat Earth.

#115  Postby felltoearth » Nov 27, 2017 5:47 pm

John Platko wrote:

To know the basic facts you have to have a certain faith that the scientific community is basically trustworthy, i.e. self correcting over time. But what happens when you don't have that faith? You try what seems like an obvious experiment to you and get fooled by something you don't understand.

They have faith enough to be using digital cameras, GPS, the internet and lasers! You can't fix stupid.
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Re: Man plans home-made rocket trip to prove flat Earth.

#116  Postby GrahamH » Nov 27, 2017 5:48 pm

John Platko wrote:
Some of the laser experiments across water seem like sincere efforts to me. They get an idea, they try to test it, things don't work out like they thought they would for one reason or another, they re-group and try again. I certainly didn't get the impression they're fudging data.

It's true they discount established science - they believe they are being lied to. The interesting question to me is why are people believing they are being lied to in such a systematic way.



If they are genuine then they are incredibly incompetent. A quick search would have turned up the WiKi on the Bedford Levels experiment (didn't you post on that as well?) and anyone trying to be scientific would design the experiment to avoid the claimed problems with that.
To ignore those well known issues is either stupid or deliberate exploitation of known phenomena to give a false appearance of flatness.
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Re: Man plans home-made rocket trip to prove flat Earth.

#117  Postby GrahamH » Nov 27, 2017 5:54 pm

John Platko wrote:
To know the basic facts you have to have a certain faith that the scientific community is basically trustworthy, i.e. self correcting over time. But what happens when you don't have that faith? You try what seems like an obvious experiment to you and get fooled by something you don't understand.



No, you don't. You can do whatever tests you like. If the experts say refraction cause effect X you can test that to see if they are correct. You can elevate the laser to minimise the effect. What you don't do if you are interested in science is just ignore it and repeat known errors over again.

There is no excuse for ignorance of the science. You don't have to take any of it on faith, but you should damn well known what it is when it's this easy to find and understand. Test your basic assumptions, like "laser beams are always perfectly straight."
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Re: Man plans home-made rocket trip to prove flat Earth.

#118  Postby felltoearth » Nov 27, 2017 5:55 pm

Or that shallow lakes are always level across its surface.

http://www.balaton-yacht.net/english/e_areainfo.htm
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Re: Man plans home-made rocket trip to prove flat Earth.

#119  Postby GrahamH » Nov 27, 2017 5:58 pm

felltoearth wrote:
They have faith enough to be using digital cameras, GPS, the internet and lasers! You can't fix stupid.


Yes, the internet,but not cameras (rocket man has to ride in the rocket. He doesn't trust a camera on a balloon), not planes. They don't trust planes or the views from them. It's NASA witchcraft or something.
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Re: Man plans home-made rocket trip to prove flat Earth.

#120  Postby John Platko » Nov 27, 2017 6:18 pm

romansh wrote:
John Platko wrote:
romansh wrote:
John Platko wrote:

Re-read the thread and you'll find out.

I did.
And I have no idea why people do really crappy experiments or dream up impossible schemes to confirm their flat earth biases.
At least not from your posts.


I wasn't explaining their psychology, I was explaining their theory and the evidence they use to defend it. And that evidence seems scientific to at least some of them.

You did no such thing. All you did was post videos.


It's best to examine all the evidence, evidence evidence, to validate your theory.
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