Okay, seriously!? Where does the mind come up with dreams?

Just woken up from a good 5 minute conversation with Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellen...

Anything that doesn't fit anywhere else.

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Re: Okay, seriously!? Where does the mind come up with dreams?

#141  Postby Macdoc » Nov 27, 2015 3:13 am

You say "practitioner", as if he could willing control when he had lucid dreams. :think:


You can and I have held myself in that state for extended periods

http://www.cbc.ca/homestretch/episode/2 ... -dreaming/

http://www.imagiscape.ca/blog/arts/imag ... sciousness

You certainly can train yourself and also create the conditions for the experience.

There is nothing woo about it - it's just part of the spectrum of states between sleeping, awake and dreaming - you just learn to navigate and induce or draw back into.

I got into to it when I was a kid and had nightmares that were claustrophic based...I learned to gradually induce the dream/fear then as the fear built move the dream to pushing the walls back - sometimes it failed and I'd end up in a nightmare but pretty soon I could control the desent in fear and then reverse.

Never been claustrophobic since even in some conditions very favourable to it.
More important I learned I could have influence on dreamstates and even my rest states by controlled drifting into sleep with visualizations of what I wanted to acheive in energy levels for when I woke.....'I have specific visuals for peaceful, calm rested, mellow and others when I want to wake with a lot of energy and purpose.

No real difference when athletes or performers visualize.

It's not a dial you can control everytime and lack of distractions is critical ....I wear earplugs often to get into a controlled sleep environment ( I wear them riding mcycle anyway )
Visualizing winning, moves, even considering your actions ahead of time in a stressful situation are all part of the same mental self conditioning.

You learn what visuals work for moods etc by playing with the phenomena. There are lot of guides on line...lots of woo but good science as well.

Inducing a repeated dream is not difficult but it will tend to drift elsewhere - holding yourself in the narrow band between wakeand sleep is tricky but can be learned and I really enjoy it when I can "pull back" a fading dream I was waking from and settle right back into it,,,,,,,very satisfying.

It has a long history

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucid_dream

I'm sure you can understand there is a strong affinity with arousal states :naughty2: -
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Re: Okay, seriously!? Where does the mind come up with dreams?

#142  Postby MattHunX » Nov 27, 2015 7:25 am

Macdoc wrote:
You say "practitioner", as if he could willing control when he had lucid dreams. :think:


You can and I have held myself in that state for extended periods

http://www.cbc.ca/homestretch/episode/2 ... -dreaming/

http://www.imagiscape.ca/blog/arts/imag ... sciousness

You certainly can train yourself and also create the conditions for the experience.

There is nothing woo about it - it's just part of the spectrum of states between sleeping, awake and dreaming - you just learn to navigate and induce or draw back into.

I got into to it when I was a kid and had nightmares that were claustrophic based...I learned to gradually induce the dream/fear then as the fear built move the dream to pushing the walls back - sometimes it failed and I'd end up in a nightmare but pretty soon I could control the desent in fear and then reverse.

Never been claustrophobic since even in some conditions very favourable to it.
More important I learned I could have influence on dreamstates and even my rest states by controlled drifting into sleep with visualizations of what I wanted to acheive in energy levels for when I woke.....'I have specific visuals for peaceful, calm rested, mellow and others when I want to wake with a lot of energy and purpose.

No real difference when athletes or performers visualize.

It's not a dial you can control everytime and lack of distractions is critical ....I wear earplugs often to get into a controlled sleep environment ( I wear them riding mcycle anyway )
Visualizing winning, moves, even considering your actions ahead of time in a stressful situation are all part of the same mental self conditioning.

You learn what visuals work for moods etc by playing with the phenomena. There are lot of guides on line...lots of woo but good science as well.

Inducing a repeated dream is not difficult but it will tend to drift elsewhere - holding yourself in the narrow band between wakeand sleep is tricky but can be learned and I really enjoy it when I can "pull back" a fading dream I was waking from and settle right back into it,,,,,,,very satisfying.

It has a long history

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucid_dream

I'm sure you can understand there is a strong affinity with arousal states :naughty2: -


Nonono...

I wasn't talking about keeping yourself in that lucid state or going back to it. That I can and did do. It was like respawning in a video-game, for me. Whenever one dream ended, I started back in my room. When I felt myself stirring awake and I could actually hear the outside noises of traffic...etc. I could sometimes will myself to stay in the dream. Other times, it just vanished and I was in my bed, under the cover, for real and awake.

But, I'm highly skeptical that a person can have a controlled dream ALL night. And I heard claims about that, as well.
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Re: Okay, seriously!? Where does the mind come up with dreams?

#143  Postby Macdoc » Nov 27, 2015 3:16 pm

There is no proof that can be imagined and dreams don't last all night.

I thiknk you ask too much ....or their recollections are too much.
Lucid dreaming is sticking in the that state...could go for hours certainly - the more sleep deprived and the more urgent the desire to do it.....could be done...I suspect Poe in the throes of writing fantastical tales - wrote all night...
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Re: Okay, seriously!? Where does the mind come up with dreams?

#144  Postby Nostalgia » Dec 05, 2015 7:23 pm

I've heard it be said that dreams only last a few seconds, even if it appears to be much longer for the dreamer.
We are alive, so the universe must be said to be alive. We are its consciousness as well as our own. We rise out of the cosmos and see its mesh of patterns, and it strikes us as beautiful. And that feeling is the most important thing in all the universe.
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Re: Okay, seriously!? Where does the mind come up with dreams?

#145  Postby Macdoc » Dec 05, 2015 9:36 pm

I can guarantee that's wrong.
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Re: Okay, seriously!? Where does the mind come up with dreams?

#146  Postby The_Piper » Dec 18, 2017 12:05 am

I had a good one last night. First off, I fell asleep to a video about Mars on YT, and it kept loading the next related one. I was on a one way mission to Mars with three other people. I woke up and rolled over a couple of times and resumed more or less the same dream. Then we were starving to death, and I got into a car, drove on roads from Mars to a relative's house, who game me a can of gasoline and huge bowl of warm spaghetti to take back to Mars with me. :lol: :lol:
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Re: Okay, seriously!? Where does the mind come up with dreams?

#147  Postby Macdoc » Dec 18, 2017 12:13 am

hehe ..rather vivid even from here :D
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Re: Okay, seriously!? Where does the mind come up with dreams?

#148  Postby The_Piper » Dec 18, 2017 12:25 am

:lol: Except for the starving part, it was great. We had an orbiting main quarters, with an inflatable habitat on the surface. I think the starving part was in the dream because my esophagus was acting up (spasm and pain), which it does when I lay on my back for a while. Though it was known to us that we would starve or freeze to death.
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Re: Okay, seriously!? Where does the mind come up with dreams?

#149  Postby proudfootz » Dec 18, 2017 1:17 am

You have to be careful about what is playing on TV while you sleep.

I had a nap this afternoon and I dreamed I was robbed by some sketchy characters claiming to be military veterans (they came to my house to look at things I posted for sale - while a couple of them kept me busy talking another took the items and loaded them onto their truck and drove off). When I woke up there was a special about military veterans transitioning to civilian life.
"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't." - Mark Twain
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Re: Okay, seriously!? Where does the mind come up with dreams?

#150  Postby SafeAsMilk » Dec 18, 2017 1:26 am

Better lay off the Welsh rarebit!
"They call it the American dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it." -- George Carlin
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Re: Okay, seriously!? Where does the mind come up with dreams?

#151  Postby The_Piper » Dec 18, 2017 4:16 am

SafeAsMilk wrote:Better lay off the Welsh rarebit!

Is that weed? :lol:
proudfootz wrote:You have to be careful about what is playing on TV while you sleep.

I had a nap this afternoon and I dreamed I was robbed by some sketchy characters claiming to be military veterans (they came to my house to look at things I posted for sale - while a couple of them kept me busy talking another took the items and loaded them onto their truck and drove off). When I woke up there was a special about military veterans transitioning to civilian life.
I have scary dreams like that sometimes. The tv is definitely a strange influence in dreams. OT, but I don't sell things from my house. Even though the crime rate is low, and I'm not exactly rich, I don't trust strangers enough to not come back when I'm away and fuck me over, or inadvertently tell someone else about all the cool stuff in my living room. (cool to me :mrgreen: )
The things that I sell on Facebook and yard sales I put in a storage locker and meet the people there.
I am trying to sell an ice fishing shack from my place though, because it won't fit in my storage locker. At least the buyer won't come in the house. Still, I'd rather not have anyone here. Meth and heroin outbreak. :(
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Re: Okay, seriously!? Where does the mind come up with dreams?

#152  Postby Mike_L » Dec 18, 2017 6:35 am

The_Piper wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:Better lay off the Welsh rarebit!

Is that weed? :lol:

Nah, it's just over-thick cheese sauce. :grin:

SafeAsMilk makes a good point, though...
From Wikipedia...
Eating before going to sleep, which triggers an increase in the body's metabolism and brain activity, is a potential stimulus for nightmares.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightmare

I think it's like swimming and cramps... one should allow an hour-or-so after eating before switching off the light. :nod:
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Re: Okay, seriously!? Where does the mind come up with dreams?

#153  Postby Calilasseia » Dec 18, 2017 9:07 am

Dear Brain ...

I would like an explanation for the night of 17/12/2017.

The reason being, that the last reading material I was perusing, consisted of web pages devoted to JavaScript and CSS programming.

As a corollary, I would dearly love to know, what drove you to launch yet another of your now familiar IMAX Cinema Widescreen dreams with full Dolby surround sound, this time featuring me finding a Jaekelopterus in my pantry.

For those readers unfamiliar with this, Jaekelopterus is a giant Eurypterid that was last alive in the Middle Devonian era, and grew to be over 8 feet long. So why I had a dream about a live specimen turning up in my pantry is anyone's guess, though I'm going to have a long sit down with my brain to try and find out.

Not content with this, the cast list for this epic production included such delights as Gammarus-like amphipods, which normally are considered to be large if they exceed 15 millimetres in length. However, the ones appearing in my dream were Rottweiler sized, for reasons best known to my unconscious brain.

Likewise, the lineup featured a Laotian Shocking Pink Dragon Millipede, which normally grows to about 3 cm, but the one in my dream was about the same size as one of those giant Toblerones that recently appeared in my local branch of Morrisons. Call it 1.2 metres or so. The springtail of uncertain species identity, which would normally be a 2mm animal, but in this case was the size of a fully grown Maine Coon cat, was, I suspect, some sort of bonus my unconscious brain threw in for the fun of it.

Now whilst I suspect some people will be smiling at the thought of me compiling this bizarre invertebrate menagerie in my sleep, and wondering where they can obtain some of the cast list for real, I am left scratching my head somewhat, as to why I chose to dream about my pantry being turned into an impromptu mega-invertebrate zoo, despite not having eaten any of the usual weird dream inducing foods prior to bedtime, that are known to launch myself and numerous other individuals into an Eraserhead cinema of the Id. Even my passion for entomology doesn't *quite* explain this latest endorphin hologram, which, I have to admit, was crafted to a level that would make Pixar green with envy.

Oh, and the Ordovician era jawless fish was a truly *special* touch.
Signature temporarily on hold until I can find a reliable image host ...
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Re: Okay, seriously!? Where does the mind come up with dreams?

#154  Postby theropod » Dec 18, 2017 11:09 am

My sig is the product of a dream wherein a Tyrannosaurus rex was stalking around our house and stooping down to look in the windows when an unknown older gentleman appeared in our living room as if teleported there and said, “Sleeping in the hen house doesn’t make you a chicken.”

This dream has stuck with me for several reasons. Even though I was a dinosaur worker in a former life I don’t remember dreaming of living non-avian dinosaurs before, or since. I have dreamed of facing impossible logistics in recovery of important fossil specimens, and such maladies as jackets collapsing, but never of living Tyrannosaurs. Oddly I was not afraid the Tyrannosaur was about to intrude and eat me, and the enormous beast seemed more curious than anything else, which was reciprocated in spades. The T. rex was hardly anything like the Jurassic Park beasts and moved silently as it circled our house.

I think this may have represented my mind attempting to build cladistic relationships within theropods while sleeping, and the frustration arising from my current lack of access to information and specimens to settle my own issues. The older gentleman may have been a representation of paleo-workers proceeding me, and relationship methods they used prior to the rise of cladistics.

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Re: Okay, seriously!? Where does the mind come up with dreams?

#155  Postby proudfootz » Dec 18, 2017 11:14 am

Sometimes the more bizarre dreams can be unsettling, but I hate the dreams that are so ordinary you could be fooled into thinking they are memories of things that really happened.
"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't." - Mark Twain
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Re: Okay, seriously!? Where does the mind come up with dreams?

#156  Postby zulumoose » Dec 18, 2017 11:28 am

I thought I had mentioned it in this thread, but it must have been another one:-

I had a dream probably a couple of months back, where I was at what appeared to be a carnival, and there was a kind of freak show/ extreme experiences section.

I was a bystander, and there was a beautiful young woman sitting naked on a chair. She had voluntarily paid to have the extreme experience of having a leg hacked off with a machete. She was drugged to feel no pain and smiled through the experience. It was quite vivid and made me feel ill and powerless, nobody else seemed to think there was anything wrong.

Even now thinking about it makes me feel a bit odd.
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Re: Okay, seriously!? Where does the mind come up with dreams?

#157  Postby DavidMcC » Dec 18, 2017 12:37 pm

I believe that the brain contains a kind of map of the limbs, but that map can go wrong. When it does so, the person thinks that the affected limb does no belong to them, and, in extreme examples, has the offending limb removed. I have even read of a case where a man's penis was similarly affected, and, sure enough, he had the organ cut off! :crazy:

EDIT: Here's an article about brain body maps, and the possible effects of faults in them:
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2005/nov/29/neuroscience.highereducation
How the brain builds its image of the body

· 'Pinocchio' principle used to find key region
· Study could lead to treatment for anorexia

Scientists have identified the region of the brain that is responsible for the way people view their bodies. The parietal cortex generates the body image, and disruption of the region's normal functioning could play a role in conditions such as anorexia and body dysmorphic disorder, in which people grossly over- or underestimate their body size, researchers believe
The researchers, led by Henrik Ehrsson, a neuroscientist at University College London, scanned volunteers' brains while carrying out an illusion that made them think their waists were shrinking.
Each of the 17 volunteers had a vibrating device attached to their wrist to stimulate a tendon, which created the false sensation that the wrist joint was flexing. When they placed their hand on any part of the body, the imaginary wrist movement made them think that part of the body was shrinking or growing.
...

Note that it is dated 2005.
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Re: Okay, seriously!? Where does the mind come up with dreams?

#158  Postby The_Piper » Dec 18, 2017 4:07 pm

I've dreamed of finding fossil invertebrates, but never finding extinct live ones or curious dinosaurs. :lol: :lol:

Mike_L wrote:
The_Piper wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:Better lay off the Welsh rarebit!

Is that weed? :lol:

Nah, it's just over-thick cheese sauce. :grin:

SafeAsMilk makes a good point, though...
From Wikipedia...
Eating before going to sleep, which triggers an increase in the body's metabolism and brain activity, is a potential stimulus for nightmares.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightmare

I think it's like swimming and cramps... one should allow an hour-or-so after eating before switching off the light. :nod:

I need to take one of my nighttime pills with food, and it's one (trazodone) that I can't stay awake on, not matter how hard I try. 1 Hour would probably be the record. :lol: I usually eat cereal with nonfat milk, but had been eating yogurt the past week or so, maybe that's a catalyst. If so I'll try it again tonight. I want more outer space dreams!
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Re: Okay, seriously!? Where does the mind come up with dreams?

#159  Postby felltoearth » Dec 28, 2017 3:50 am

I get the most bizarre dreams when I eat anything heavily flavoured with rosemary and drink red wine.
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Re: Okay, seriously!? Where does the mind come up with dreams?

#160  Postby MattHunX » Dec 28, 2017 7:42 pm

felltoearth wrote:I get the most bizarre dreams when I eat anything heavily flavoured with rosemary and drink red wine.

I dream of really weird stuff when I eat too much.
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