On social justice and social justice warriors

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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#261  Postby Ironclad » Dec 23, 2020 12:02 pm

He’s an alien from planet Mongo.
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On social justice and social justice warriors

#262  Postby felltoearth » Dec 23, 2020 12:09 pm

Who happens to look Chinese and has a racist’s idea of a Chinese sounding name.
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#263  Postby SafeAsMilk » Dec 23, 2020 1:14 pm

You do know that getting your undies in a twist over a warning label you don't have to read is at least twice as snowflakey as the warning label itself, right?
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#264  Postby Ironclad » Dec 23, 2020 2:37 pm

SafeAsMilk wrote:You do know that getting your undies in a twist over a warning label you don't have to read is at least twice as snowflakey as the warning label itself, right?

School playground response.
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#265  Postby SafeAsMilk » Dec 23, 2020 3:14 pm

Ironclad wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:You do know that getting your undies in a twist over a warning label you don't have to read is at least twice as snowflakey as the warning label itself, right?

School playground response.

As school playground response as, say, dismissing any point you don't like as a school playground response?
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#266  Postby laklak » Dec 23, 2020 8:12 pm

Did they add one to Flesh Gordon for Emperor Wang the Perverted?

Kink shaming is so last century.
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#267  Postby Spearthrower » Dec 23, 2020 8:43 pm

Ironclad wrote:Flash Gordon gets warning for 'potentially offensive' Ming the Merciless https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-55409194

They’re coming for Spock next.



I don't think it's 'potentially' offensive: it's pretty much outright offensive for most modern sensibilities. The creation and depiction of this fictional tyrant comes from a period when people from the far East were portrayed as being a danger to the civilized West. Ming the Merciless is basically an embodiment of an orientalist racist ideological fantasy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Peril

The Yellow Peril (also the Yellow Fear, Yellow Terror and the Yellow Specter) is a color-metaphor that represents East Asian peoples as an existential danger to the Western world.[2] As a psycho-cultural menace from the Eastern world, fear of the Yellow Peril is racial, not national, a fear derived not from concern with a specific source of danger or from any one people or country, but from a vaguely ominous, existential fear of the faceless, nameless hordes of "yellow people" in the Asia-Pacific opposite the Western world. As a form of xenophobia, the Yellow Terror is fear of the Oriental, non-white Other, a racialist fantasy presented in the book The Rising Tide of Color Against White World-Supremacy (1920), by Lothrop Stoddard.[3]

The racist ideology of the Yellow Peril derives from a "core imagery of apes, lesser men, primitives, children, madmen, and beings who possessed special powers", which are cultural representations of colored people that originated in the Greco-Persian Wars (499–449 BC), between Ancient Greece and the Persian Empire; centuries later, Western imperialist expansion adduced East Asians as the Yellow Peril.[3][4]

In the late 19th century, the Russian sociologist Jacques Novikow coined the term in the essay "Le Péril Jaune" ("The Yellow Peril", 1897), which racism Kaiser Wilhelm II (r. 1888–1918) used to encourage the European empires to invade, conquer, and colonize China.[5] To that end, using the Yellow Peril ideology, the Kaiser misrepresented Japan's victory in the Russo-Japanese War (1904–1905) as an Asian racial threat to superior white Western Europe, and also exposes China and Japan as in alliance to conquer, subjugate, and enslave the Western world


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Pe ... llow_Peril

In science fiction cinema, the "futuristic Yellow Peril" is embodied by Emperor Ming the Merciless is an iteration of the Fu Manchu trope...
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#268  Postby SafeAsMilk » Dec 23, 2020 11:56 pm

laklak wrote:Did they add one to Flesh Gordon for Emperor Wang the Perverted?

Kink shaming is so last century.

Good luck finding a copy!
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#269  Postby Ironclad » Dec 24, 2020 12:04 pm

Modern sensibilities huh. Let’s make some predictions then, no prizes, just for fun.
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#270  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Dec 24, 2020 12:32 pm

Ironclad wrote:Modern sensibilities huh. Let’s make some predictions then, no prizes, just for fun.
The Pink Panther movies; Mr Potato (pepa pig); Santa.

Those are names not predictions.
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#271  Postby Spearthrower » Dec 24, 2020 4:08 pm

Ironclad wrote:Modern sensibilities huh. Let’s make some predictions then, no prizes, just for fun.
The Pink Panther movies; Mr Potato (pepa pig); Santa.



I'm never really quite clear why you seem to be reactionary when it comes to topics like these. I'm pretty far away, geographically, politically and socially from any excesses or extremes there may be in the Western world towards the left, identity politics and the like, but Ming the Merciless, for example, is clearly an antiquated trope that is at very best xenophobic, and given that the viewership is so much more diverse than back when it was released, what exactly is the harm in putting on a warning saying that this may cause offense when, in all likelihood, yeah it will cause offense considering the baked in racism, sexism, xenophobia and the likes which were the norms of those days but are not the norms today?

It's not like networks expect their viewers to go in with a degree in contextual historical analysis so they're covering all bases by continuing to be a platform for it but offering a warning of viewer discretion; these networks are, after all, there to entertain, not to alienate.
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#272  Postby The_Metatron » Dec 24, 2020 5:05 pm

I never knew any of that shit. When that movie was released, I saw it. In order of the stuff about it that impressed me: the sound track, the art-deco space hardware, the rest of the sound track. Looking back, I don't think I was taught to ever fear others or outsiders. Without that "yellow peril" connection, I just saw it as a cool re-make of a campy fifty year old sci-fi universe, set to a great sound track. It's how I still think of this fun movie, forty years on.

Fun practical application: In my Belgian friend's military field training, the way they simulated a nuclear detonation (to which they were expected to react correctly) was to shout at the trainees: "FLASH!", which would be the first effect. My friend told me his trainers were less than happy when his squad would reply to the announcement with their best Queen: "Ah-ahh".
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#273  Postby romansh » Dec 25, 2020 12:18 am

The_Metatron wrote: Without that "yellow peril" connection, I just saw it as a cool re-make of a campy fifty year old sci-fi universe, set to a great sound track.

Perhaps when someone has a plot for the good'uns versus bad'uns type movie, the next villain could be portrayed as rainbow coloured multigendered person so as not to offend any one particular group.

What could go wrong?
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#274  Postby Ironclad » Dec 25, 2020 12:43 am

lol
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#275  Postby Spearthrower » Dec 25, 2020 7:11 am

Wow.

You forgot to mention attack helicopters, romansh. That might have apparently been the sophisticated nuance that could have elevated this discussion out of the school playground.
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#276  Postby Cito di Pense » Dec 25, 2020 10:20 am

Spearthrower wrote:Wow.

You forgot to mention attack helicopters, romansh. That might have apparently been the sophisticated nuance that could have elevated this discussion out of the school playground.


This is a mistake. There is no way for any of us as individuals to lift this discussion beyond the sorts of exchanges that happen on the school playground. That is mainly because the people who are permitted to discuss this are not in a fucking classroom, following a syllabus, and studying the history and current state of racism, sexism, and whataboutthisism. There's nobody here who really doesn't understand that racism is wrong, and the pushback is at people who obsess about it and hope they're accomplishing something, here, when all that ever happens is objection to something somebody said. That kind of speech policing is what forms the snowflake backbone, such as it is. It's based on the theory that what people say indicates what they believe, and online, this is a stupid move. What's actually going on is animus between acquaintances that have just known each other's political positions for just a little too long.

Some participants will always feel elevated, but that kind of sentiment best belongs back in church. If you look back at the very first post, this conversation began as an "up yours" to somebody who was skeptical about how seriously to take social justice warriors, as opposed to how seriously to take racism, sexism, and whateveriscurrentlyfashionableism.

Some people will inevitably try to steer something that starts off as trash-talking toward something more, uh, rational, but this is a mistake. It's off-topic in a thread that began as trash-talking and is (for obvious reasons) ending up that way. So up yours, social justice warriors. Get a life. Don't forget to have a happy Xmas, despite troubles in the world.
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#277  Postby Hermit » Dec 25, 2020 11:00 am

Cito di Pense wrote:
Spearthrower wrote:Wow.

You forgot to mention attack helicopters, romansh. That might have apparently been the sophisticated nuance that could have elevated this discussion out of the school playground.

This is a mistake. There is no way for any of us as individuals to lift this discussion beyond the sorts of exchanges that happen on the school playground. That is mainly because the people who are permitted to discuss this are not in a fucking classroom, following a syllabus, and studying the history and current state of racism, sexism, and whataboutthisism.

Great post. :clap:

It's a pity that it is wasted on those of us who are incapable of elevating the discussion beyond the school playground level because we, who are permitted to discuss this, are not in a fucking classroom, following a syllabus, and studying the history and current state of racism, sexism, and whataboutthisism. :waah:

It may not be entirely wasted, though. Your display of understanding precisely what is going on here could give you a warm, fuzzy feeling of superiority.

We really ought to give you the authority to determine who is permitted to post here. Not just in this thread, but covering the entire forum outside wordplay threads and such. Under your leadership RatSkep will once again rise to the level of excellence it was at ten years ago.

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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#278  Postby Mike_L » Dec 25, 2020 12:11 pm

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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#279  Postby Spearthrower » Dec 25, 2020 3:03 pm

Cito di Pense wrote:What's actually going on is animus between acquaintances that have just known each other's political positions for just a little too long.


There was no animus coming from me towards Ironclad, and as my post said: I don't understand at all his tone or reaction in threads like these. I don't know why he routinely takes an apparently reactionary point of view. I did however understand him dismissing a prior post as a playground response, so I thought he might respond with some consideration and reasoned discussion to my post which aimed to set out some pertinent context. I didn't manage to net so much as a word in response, but as soon as romansh rushed us across right to the borders of alt-right country, Ironclad seemed to find that kind of playground response amusing.

Now dearest old Cito me laddie, I know you're an incorrigible crusty who's not at all sure that anyone ever can hope to better themselves, but I'm an eternal optimist - as I am sure you are all too familiar with by now! :)

So my post was genuinely meant to underscore why people could reasonably be offended by such cartoonish caricatures, that it's not just snowflakeism on their part to not enjoy being just an exotic fantasy trope for other peoples' entertainment.

Are you saying that I should never expect better than attack helicopter style responses on topics like this, or are you saying that my own post's motivation in establishing a plausibly rational foundation for discussion was, for all intents, culpably naive and basically just asking for it?
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Re: On social justice and social justice warriors

#280  Postby Spearthrower » Dec 25, 2020 4:45 pm

Oh and Merry Christmas you old git.
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