Peanut Gallery: Can Christianity Be Rationally Defended?

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Peanut Gallery: Can Christianity Be Rationally Defended?

#1  Postby Calilasseia » Aug 13, 2013 8:09 pm

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Re: Peanut Gallery: Can Christianity Be Rationally Defended?

#2  Postby THWOTH » Aug 13, 2013 11:23 pm

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Re: Peanut Gallery: Can Christianity Be Rationally Defended?

#3  Postby HomerJay » Aug 13, 2013 11:24 pm

You wait years for a formal debate then...
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Re: Peanut Gallery: Can Christianity Be Rationally Defended?

#4  Postby THWOTH » Aug 13, 2013 11:50 pm

"No-one is exempt from speaking nonsense – the only misfortune is to do it solemnly."
Michel de Montaigne, Essais, 1580
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Re: Peanut Gallery: Can Christianity Be Rationally Defended?

#5  Postby hackenslash » Aug 13, 2013 11:53 pm

If it can be called blood. I look forward to the quantum wibble later.

BTW, I strongly advise the participants not to even read this thread for the duration of the debate. It gets distracting and can cause confusion, as one of my opponents found out when he started injecting the objections to his points made by others in a peanut gallery thread for our debate. It's hard not to look, but it's for the best.
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Re: Peanut Gallery: Can Christianity Be Rationally Defended?

#6  Postby felltoearth » Aug 14, 2013 12:45 am

Very much looking forward to this. I quite like the contributions of both Will and Byron.
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Re: Peanut Gallery: Can Christianity Be Rationally Defended?

#7  Postby OlivierK » Aug 14, 2013 3:20 am

I don't think will's off to a very good start by alluding to a deistic, or fine-tuning argument for a probable god. We'll see how this goes, but any argument proceeding from the notion that god is "highly probable" seems built on sand to me. But I'll be interested to see how he takes his argument - I'll be impressed if the only glaring flaw is the assumption of god's existence, because I think even assuming a deistic god doesn't allow a rational defence of Christianity.
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Re: Peanut Gallery: Can Christianity Be Rationally Defended?

#8  Postby Weaver » Aug 14, 2013 3:27 am

.

Or, to be more precise,

?
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Re: Peanut Gallery: Can Christianity Be Rationally Defended?

#9  Postby Precambrian Rabbi » Aug 14, 2013 4:29 am

THWOTH wrote:First blood to Will

-iamlanecraig. :whistle:
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Re: Peanut Gallery: Can Christianity Be Rationally Defended?

#10  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Aug 14, 2013 7:07 am

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"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Peanut Gallery: Can Christianity Be Rationally Defended?

#11  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Aug 14, 2013 7:16 am

Much like a friend who makes a promise and you have no direct evidence of whether or not he or she will keep the promise, faith in the Biblical understanding and usage is defined in a similar manner. It is an assurance.

Bit of a skewed analogy here. You have evidence of your friends existence and hopefully of prior isntances of him keeping a promise.
You have no evidence for the existence of a God or any of the miraculous events described in the bible.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Peanut Gallery: Can Christianity Be Rationally Defended?

#12  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Aug 14, 2013 7:19 am

By showing the high probability of an existence of a "god" through examples of quantum mechanics, and cosmology, laws of order and chaos, we can establish a foundation for deism.

As Dillahunty said, if you have no precedence or evidence for X, you cannot determine how likely X is, especially not when X is so vague a concept as God(s).


By showing the historicity of the resurrection of Jesus we can close the gap onto Christianity.

The historicity of Jesus, much less his resurrection is not established and I don't think Will be able to make a convincing argument for the latter. But we'll see.

By showing the reliability of the Bible we can be reassured about the contents of the book.

This should be easy for Byron to deal with.
Last edited by Thomas Eshuis on Aug 14, 2013 8:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Peanut Gallery: Can Christianity Be Rationally Defended?

#13  Postby Rumraket » Aug 14, 2013 7:54 am

Two new formal debates in such a short span of time? What happened to this forum! :lol:
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Re: Peanut Gallery: Can Christianity Be Rationally Defended?

#14  Postby natselrox » Aug 14, 2013 8:05 am

:popcorn:
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Re: Peanut Gallery: Can Christianity Be Rationally Defended?

#15  Postby campermon » Aug 14, 2013 8:12 am

Will wrote:By showing the high probability of an existence of a "god" through examples of quantum mechanics, and cosmology, laws of order and chaos, we can establish a foundation for deism.


That'll be interesting..

:popcorn:
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Re: Peanut Gallery: Can Christianity Be Rationally Defended?

#16  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Aug 14, 2013 8:15 am

campermon wrote:
Will wrote:By showing the high probability of an existence of a "god" through examples of quantum mechanics, and cosmology, laws of order and chaos, we can establish a foundation for deism.


That'll be interesting..

:popcorn:

I assume Will made the untintentional mistake of typing deism, because last I checked Christianity is theistic, not deistic.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Peanut Gallery: Can Christianity Be Rationally Defended?

#17  Postby Scot Dutchy » Aug 14, 2013 8:16 am

:yawn:

Off we go again. Nothing new. Plenty old.
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Re: Peanut Gallery: Can Christianity Be Rationally Defended?

#18  Postby hackenslash » Aug 14, 2013 8:23 am

campermon wrote:
That'll be interesting..


Indeed, if wrong, and a little clichéd. The only foundation that can be thus built is a foundation for a cause (and a weak foundation at that), not a causal agent. Still, it'll be fun to see the attempt, not least in light of Will's journey since joining us...
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Re: Peanut Gallery: Can Christianity Be Rationally Defended?

#20  Postby Ihavenofingerprints » Aug 14, 2013 8:47 am

I doubt Will actually believes the entirety of what he is arguing for here. None the less, it should be interesting.

Personally i hope he spends the majority of his time on points 3 and 4. The statistical analysis of miracles is a waste of time, same with quantum woo. What would be interesting is seeing him defend the idea that Jesus rising from the dead makes Christianity more plausible. Do we extend this logic to all situations? "I thought the democratic party had some good policies, but those republican senators can rise from the dead! That's got my vote!
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