RDF Archive - Full Download Inside

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Re: RDF Archive - Full Download Inside

#21  Postby xrayzed » Mar 04, 2010 11:15 am

I reckon the Flood Debate + Peanut Gallery thread would be worthwhile additions. Seeing as I'm not the one doing the work it's only a suggestion, not a request. My rudeness doesn't extend that far.
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Re: RDF Archive - Full Download Inside

#22  Postby Goldenmane » Mar 04, 2010 12:41 pm

Well done. I've just spent an hour or so revisiting old threads. Fuck me, but I'm erudite. :D
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Re: RDF Archive - Full Download Inside

#23  Postby Skinny Puppy » Mar 04, 2010 12:59 pm

A sincere ‘THANKS’ to all that made this possible! :clap:

There was simply too much at stake to lose all of that information and I’m sure all of us can’t thank those responsible for saving the threads enough.

As far as legal issues are concerned, too late that ship has sailed. Many of us now have copies of the entire forum, minus of course the excellent posts that Josh deleted. :cry:

If Richard is outraged by the distribution of the forum’s contents, then perhaps he can side with the Christians and debate the pros and cons of the destruction of historic material. :ask:
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Re: RDF Archive - Full Download Inside

#24  Postby FACT-MAN-2 » Mar 04, 2010 10:07 pm

I'd like to report a successful download of the backup and a successful extraction of its files using 7zip, as was suggested here.

Now I can go through all 7,022 of my posts and save the ones I wish to keep, plus save many valuable posts by others to which I can refer in doing my own work.

So hats off to those who made this possible and their terrific and courageous efforts, especially crank. I thank them one and all and remain forever in their debt.

And as someone commented, the legal horse on this thing is long gone down the road and hard to find, if anyone ever decided to make that effort, which I can't believe Dawkins would order up, and he's the only one who could.

I say, fuck 'em if they can't take a joke. :)
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Re: RDF Archive - Full Download Inside

#25  Postby crank » Mar 04, 2010 11:14 pm

FACT-MAN-2 wrote:I'd like to report a successful download of the backup and a successful extraction of its files using 7zip, as was suggested here.

Now I can go through all 7,022 of my posts and save the ones I wish to keep, plus save many valuable posts by others to which I can refer in doing my own work.

So hats off to those who made this possible and their terrific and courageous efforts, especially NineBerry. I thank them one and all and remain forever in their debt.

And as someone commented, the legal horse on this thing is long gone down the road and hard to find, if anyone ever decided to make that effort, which I can't believe Dawkins would order up, and he's the only one who could.

I say, fuck 'em if they can't take a joke. :)


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Re: RDF Archive - Full Download Inside

#26  Postby cursuswalker » Mar 05, 2010 6:30 am

mcgruff wrote:Don't you need permission to distribute that file?


Who cares? The actions of RDF result in a moral forfeit of any such rights AFAIC.
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Re: RDF Archive - Full Download Inside

#27  Postby mcgruff » Mar 05, 2010 1:40 pm

Isn't that the mistake made by the religious, ie mixing up emotion and logic? They desperately want God to be real and so they fool themselves into believing. The confidence trick of "faith". You most certainly do need permission to distribute copyrighted material. If that's been given, fine, but for your own sake if nothing else don't just blindly assume you have rights which might not exist in a court of law.

I am a little bit disturbed by the suggestion that this file would have been distributed regardless of permission.
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Re: RDF Archive - Full Download Inside

#28  Postby crank » Mar 05, 2010 2:08 pm

mcgruff wrote:Isn't that the mistake made by the religious, ie mixing up emotion and logic? They desperately want God to be real and so they fool themselves into believing. The confidence trick of "faith". You most certainly do need permission to distribute copyrighted material. If that's been given, fine, but for your own sake if nothing else don't just blindly assume you have rights which might not exist in a court of law.

I am a little bit disturbed by the suggestion that this file would have been distributed regardless of permission.

It's been mentioned in this post and elsewhere, we were given carte blanch with the archive, from the kissoff post:

We will leave the current forum up for 30 days, giving regular users an opportunity to locally archive any content they value.


"any content they value", since RDF assumed ownership in the agreement to join and post, they give it away here. Posters don't have a leg to stand on as they posted to a publicly viewable form and could expect their input to be on display indefinitely.
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Re: RDF Archive - Full Download Inside

#29  Postby byofrcs » Mar 05, 2010 2:20 pm

crank wrote:
mcgruff wrote:Isn't that the mistake made by the religious, ie mixing up emotion and logic? They desperately want God to be real and so they fool themselves into believing. The confidence trick of "faith". You most certainly do need permission to distribute copyrighted material. If that's been given, fine, but for your own sake if nothing else don't just blindly assume you have rights which might not exist in a court of law.

I am a little bit disturbed by the suggestion that this file would have been distributed regardless of permission.

It's been mentioned in this post and elsewhere, we were given carte blanch with the archive, from the kissoff post:

We will leave the current forum up for 30 days, giving regular users an opportunity to locally archive any content they value.


"any content they value", since RDF assumed ownership in the agreement to join and post, they give it away here. Posters don't have a leg to stand on as they posted to a publicly viewable form and could expect their input to be on display indefinitely.


Except that there is a lot of difference between "locally archive" (which the copyright holder has allowed) and posting it to another web site (which is nothing like a local archive) for all and sundry to download.

I may be able to download an ebook or download software from a publicly visible web site (and it may be quite free in cost but I have to stare at blank spaces where ABP stops banner ads) and I may be permitted to create a local archive (or backup).

I seriously doubt that means I can then shove that same copyrighted material onto a publicly available web site.
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Re: RDF Archive - Full Download Inside

#30  Postby crank » Mar 05, 2010 2:30 pm

byofrcs wrote:
crank wrote:
mcgruff wrote:Isn't that the mistake made by the religious, ie mixing up emotion and logic? They desperately want God to be real and so they fool themselves into believing. The confidence trick of "faith". You most certainly do need permission to distribute copyrighted material. If that's been given, fine, but for your own sake if nothing else don't just blindly assume you have rights which might not exist in a court of law.

I am a little bit disturbed by the suggestion that this file would have been distributed regardless of permission.

It's been mentioned in this post and elsewhere, we were given carte blanch with the archive, from the kissoff post:

We will leave the current forum up for 30 days, giving regular users an opportunity to locally archive any content they value.


"any content they value", since RDF assumed ownership in the agreement to join and post, they give it away here. Posters don't have a leg to stand on as they posted to a publicly viewable form and could expect their input to be on display indefinitely.


Except that there is a lot of difference between "locally archive" (which the copyright holder has allowed) and posting it to another web site (which is nothing like a local archive) for all and sundry to download.

I may be able to download an ebook or download software from a publicly visible web site (and it may be quite free in cost but I have to stare at blank spaces where ABP stops banner ads) and I may be permitted to create a local archive (or backup).

I seriously doubt that means I can then shove that same copyrighted material onto a publicly available web site.

Just to play lawyer for a bit (bleh!), 'locally archive' is to copy to your drive, there is no implied restriction on what you do with it, or that is how I interpret that, and yes, it could be interpreted more restrictively, but you could make the case that they would have spelled that out if they meant it, or should have.
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Re: RDF Archive - Full Download Inside

#31  Postby mcgruff » Mar 05, 2010 2:52 pm

Maybe it would be a good idea to ask them if they have any objections.
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Re: RDF Archive - Full Download Inside

#32  Postby crank » Mar 05, 2010 3:18 pm

mcgruff wrote:Maybe it would be a good idea to ask them if they have any objections.

We aren't doing this in secret.
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Re: RDF Archive - Full Download Inside

#33  Postby mcgruff » Mar 05, 2010 4:20 pm

The point is you appear to be doing it without permission. Maybe there won't be a problem, maybe there will but you won't actually know unless you ask.

Would it be fair to say that you haven't asked because you don't really care either way and have already decided what you're going to do?
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Re: RDF Archive - Full Download Inside

#34  Postby crank » Mar 05, 2010 5:04 pm

mcgruff wrote:The point is you appear to be doing it without permission. Maybe there won't be a problem, maybe there will but you won't actually know unless you ask.

Would it be fair to say that you haven't asked because you don't really care either way and have already decided what you're going to do?

What are we doing with the material that is in any way beyond what is done with it once it is posted on RDF? By posting, you are releasing your words out in public view, to be accessed at will by anyone who visits the site, with no control over how long it is there, no control over who can view it, no control over it at all. If anyone were to try to sell, or monetize the material in any way, then I would object and you would have a point. In some way we are facilitating the wishes of the authors by keeping their material exposed to public viewing when it would otherwise have been destroyed. I mean, what do you think? Are you against what we are doing, or just concerned?
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Re: RDF Archive - Full Download Inside

#35  Postby mcgruff » Mar 05, 2010 7:55 pm

The RDF FUA:

Use of Materials
Although we make richarddawkins.net freely accessible, we don't intend to give up our rights, or anyone else's rights, to the materials appearing on richarddawkins.net . The materials available through richarddawkins.net are the property of richarddawkins.net or its licensors, and are protected by copyright, trademark and other intellectual property laws. You are free to display and print for your personal, non-commercial use information you receive through richarddawkins.net but you may not otherwise reproduce any of the materials without the prior consent of the owner. You may not distribute copies of materials found on richarddawkins.net in any form (posting on other websites, by email or other electronic means), without prior permission from the owner. However, links to richarddawkins.net are always appreciated and welcome.

Material Submitted
All materials, photos or videos you submit to any of our forums and other public posting areas become the property of richarddawkins.net and may be reproduced, modified and distributed by richarddawkins.net without restriction, in any medium, and for any purpose. Posting of any material on richarddawkins.net gives expressed waiver and release of any/all rights, legal, moral, or otherwise, to said material(s). (Embedded or linked images/videos hosted elsewhere do not count as submitted material.) You may edit posted material for up to 48 hours after it is initially posted, but you may not edit posts to such an extent that it substantially alters posts to which others have responded.


If you distribute material from RDF without permission you are in breach of copyright.

If one has a disagreement one ought to try to keep it as civilised as possible. This could potentially cause more trouble and that would surely be a stupid thing to do when it would be so easy to get in touch with RDF to ask permission.

Personally yes of course I'd like the old forum to remain visible somewhere but emphatically not if it means stealing it.
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Re: RDF Archive - Full Download Inside

#36  Postby dylan » Mar 05, 2010 7:58 pm

Which is why I think it's important to have this whole forum creative commons licensed. It would allow everything we do remain free and shareable as long as credit is givin.
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Re: RDF Archive - Full Download Inside

#37  Postby crank » Mar 05, 2010 8:59 pm

mcgruff wrote:The RDF FUA:

Use of Materials
without the prior consent of the owner.


If you distribute material from RDF without permission you are in breach of copyright.

If one has a disagreement one ought to try to keep it as civilised as possible. This could potentially cause more trouble and that would surely be a stupid thing to do when it would be so easy to get in touch with RDF to ask permission.

Personally yes of course I'd like the old forum to remain visible somewhere but emphatically not if it means stealing it.


Notice that part I left in the quote, it is my contention that he gave us permission. He may not have meant to, but I think he did. It isn't an unreasonable contention. Far less unreasonable than requiring any poster to forfeit any ownership of their own words. I hope you don't think I am trying to argue angrily with you, I am merely trying to make a case that we shouldn't have to worry. It is most likely moot anyway, as someone said elsewhere it's unlikely he would even consider coming after us.

As to the posters, again, we are doing nothing with the material that wasn't already done at RDnet.
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Re: RDF Archive - Full Download Inside

#38  Postby crank » Mar 05, 2010 9:02 pm

dylan wrote:Which is why I think it's important to have this whole forum creative commons licensed. It would allow everything we do remain free and shareable as long as credit is givin.

I second this idea strongly and think it should be the normal practice of any forum like this one. The RDnet agreement was probably drawn up due to the front page stuff anyway, not really with the forum in mind. Does anyone know if this is in fact the case?
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Re: RDF Archive - Full Download Inside

#39  Postby Gawd » Mar 05, 2010 9:08 pm

Dawkins would open a whole other can of atheist whoop ass if he tries to DMCA an archive of the forums in light of what he has done and his original intentions to delete the entire forum.
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Re: RDF Archive - Full Download Inside

#40  Postby mcgruff » Mar 05, 2010 9:26 pm

crank wrote:As to the posters, again, we are doing nothing with the material that wasn't already done at RDnet.

Yeah but they own the copyright.

crank wrote:I hope you don't think I am trying to argue angrily with you, I am merely trying to make a case that we shouldn't have to worry.

Not at all. We disagree but I certainly don't want to fight about it. Way too much of that already.
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