Same as the France thread. Lived there? Been there? Worked there?

I'd like to get your thoughts about it: politics, labor, culture, cuisine, environment, etc.

I traveled there on work several years ago and loved it, with a few exceptions.

Everyone I met was friendly to a fault. The only people who I met that were jerks were from another country. I've never seen so many people who were generally happy in my life.

The hotel I stayed at even drove me to the train station when I missed the bus. The customer service everywhere was excellent, even astonishingly so. I got the impression that wages were such that people could basically do what they wanted to do for a living within reason and were paid enough and given enough respect that most people didn't dislike their jobs, which for an American is like landing on a different planet.

The fact that I only met one openly religious person was good too.

And stroopwaffels. Oh my goodness those are good.

Heineken in soda machines. That was ...ahem... refreshing.

No pennies or nickels (1 cent or 5 cent) pieces to have to mess with.

Gas stations with fully functional sandwich bars. Unbelievable.

Douwe Egberts. Oh. My. Goodness. If there is a god, he makes this frigging coffee.

The acceptance of marijuana, gay rights, and civil rights. The sheer horror my friend had on his face when I explained drug tests and lack of health care in the US.

Things that weirded me out or continue to do so:
Open racism: one guy said he disliked Rotterdam because of the number of blacks there. By blacks he meant everyone not Dutch. It was weird. The guy was otherwise nice to a fault and was over 50, so I don't know if that's a generational thing or not.

The 1% threshold for parties included in the Parliament. Guys, I'm all for representation and democracy, but you get these Pim Fortuyn and Geert Wilders types waayyyy too often.

Geert Wilders in general. I realize he's not going to get much over 18% of the vote, but that's still too many closet racists. Less than we probably have in America though....

The food in general is.....well....I don't know how to describe it. Some of it is EXCEPTIONAL, like the desserts, pancakes (which are not deserts), and I can honestly say I've had the best steak I've ever had in the Netherlands, hands down. And this is someone from Texas and who's been to Kansas City saying this. But then you have these wretched herring stands. And drop. Never again to both of those... But breakfast was quite refreshing. Chocolate sprinkles or what an American would call lunchmeat. Actually, really good. Ethnic food? Surinamese just seemed hot, with not that much flavor. And Indonesian the same. I don't know. It's like hit or miss with the food.

Hope my comments didn't offend anyone!

I love the place! And when I win the lotto, I'll buy a house by the sea!

I've been living here for the last 18 years and can now view things from both a tourists viewpoint as well as a local.
Let me offer my opinions on things you touched upon:

NineOneFour wrote:Everyone I met was friendly to a fault. The only people who I met that were jerks were from another country. I've never seen so many people who were generally happy in my life.

The folks generally are friendly. They are also often loud and straightforward. Offering a foreigner something to drink isn't done by asking if they would like to drink something but done so, "Coffee?".
I and some of my friends are often ashamed of hailing from these shores when we see Dutch tourists in other countries. They can be incredibly rude, noisy and cheapskates.

NineOneFour wrote:I got the impression that wages were such that people could basically do what they wanted to do for a living within reason and were paid enough and given enough respect that most people didn't dislike their jobs, which for an American is like landing on a different planet.

Actually, a lot of people don't work and suck the social system dry despite being perfectly capable of working. Those that do work usually get by in life without the need for second jobs.

NineOneFour wrote:Things that weirded me out or continue to do so:
Open racism: one guy said he disliked Rotterdam because of the number of blacks there. By blacks he meant everyone not Dutch. It was weird. The guy was otherwise nice to a fault and was over 50, so I don't know if that's a generational thing or not.

I don't think that this is always a case of xenophobia or your average racism. Probably more a case of not really accepting that times have changed since he was a youngster when there were very few 'foreigners' around. That said, a lot of the younger generation have the same opinion so...

NineOneFour wrote:The 1% threshold for parties included in the Parliament. Guys, I'm all for representation and democracy, but you get these Pim Fortuyn and Geert Wilders types waayyyy too often.

Geert Wilders in general. I realize he's not going to get much over 18% of the vote, but that's still too many closet racists.

I agree that there are parties here that really shouldn't be in parliament. Here I am refering to the silly little parties with ridiculous policies that touch on one or a few areas. Fortuyn and Wilders got real attention in regards to immigrant issues and the like. A lot of voters here sway left to right and back again very quickly and these issues are key in that happening.

NineOneFour wrote:It's like hit or miss with the food.

Yep, can be ecceptional but can also be rather unpleasant.

Regina wrote:I love the place! And when I win the lotto, I'll buy a house by the sea!

I hope for your sake that the lotto jackpot is huge as housing here, especially by the sea, is prohibitively expensive. It is the one thing I think has been blown right out of proportion.

I'm all too aware of that! Maybe I have to move a few kilometres inland!!

Basically, housing everywhere that isn't a third world country or Texas is prohibitively expensive.

(insert joke about Texas being a third-world country here)

I have only been to Amsterdam, really. It struck me as a quite fun city, but also as a very "evil" city, in the sense that all of it is just a big money-making sheme. Similar to Las Vegas, yet much more evil... hard to express.

It is nice to hear so many different comments. I cannot really comment having lived here far too long that I even consider myself Dutch.

I've been to Amsterdam, Rotterdam and other parts of the Netherlands very often (almost every month for 2 years). Very friendly and uncomplicated people (they do not trip over the flowers of the carpet - as we say in French), very liberal. Fun loving people, they like to party a lot, New Year is very special -Fireworks all over the place. I love the cheese (Old Amsterdam) and the tulips (of course) the boerstaaf, the Satea sauce (spicy peanut butter sauce) with French fries. Actually, I loved it so much I had to bring a Dutch back to Canada

Scot Dutchy wrote:It is nice to hear so many different comments. I cannot really comment having lived here far too long that I even consider myself Dutch.

What differences have you seen in other countries? Did my observations seem on-target or were they offensive?

Zukiwi wrote:I've been to Amsterdam, Rotterdam and other parts of the Netherlands very often (almost every month for 2 years). Very friendly and uncomplicated people (they do not trip over the flowers of the carpet - as we say in French), very liberal. Fun loving people, they like to party a lot, New Year is very special -Fireworks all over the place. I love the cheese (Old Amsterdam) and the tulips (of course) the boerstaaf, the Satea sauce (spicy peanut butter sauce) with French fries. Actually, I loved it so much I had to bring a Dutch back to Canada

Oh boy how could I have forgotten to mention the fries?

Best in the world.

NineOneFour wrote:

Zukiwi wrote:I've been to Amsterdam, Rotterdam and other parts of the Netherlands very often (almost every month for 2 years). Very friendly and uncomplicated people (they do not trip over the flowers of the carpet - as we say in French), very liberal. Fun loving people, they like to party a lot, New Year is very special -Fireworks all over the place. I love the cheese (Old Amsterdam) and the tulips (of course) the boerstaaf, the Satea sauce (spicy peanut butter sauce) with French fries. Actually, I loved it so much I had to bring a Dutch back to Canada

Oh boy how could I have forgotten to mention the fries?

Best in the world.

Oh I forgot to mention they have (or had) a weird habit - They have to remove the floors when they leave an apartment - that to me was the weirdest thing (and illogical from my point of view) whatever one puts on the floor when he she leaves the apartment they have to remove it the floor sort of remains "incomplete" until the next tenant. If you do not remove it, you will be charge for the removal

Another thing - under the Guilder era compare to the rest of Europe, it was not expensive. I was told the Euro changed that.

NineOneFour wrote:

Scot Dutchy wrote:It is nice to hear so many different comments. I cannot really comment having lived here far too long that I even consider myself Dutch.

What differences have you seen in other countries? Did my observations seem on-target or were they offensive?

Not one bit slightly offensive and in fact a very good observation of Dutch society.
You managed to see more of the Netherlands than many a tourist. I always am very annoyed with visitors who think Amsterdam is the Netherlands, which is farther from the truth.
I live in The Hague, which is a very pretty city. The Parliament buildings and the squares and terraces. The lack of traffic and the very good public transport.
The Dutch are very easy going while law abiding they are far more relaxed than say Germans. The police are also very friendly as long as you are but don’t mix or be rude to them but generally they don’t go around enforcing the law to the letter.
The strict social control of the '50's has all but gone and people are more laid back. As long as you are not interfering with another person's life nobody really bothers (not like the English with the wagging finger).

Towns (in the Netherlands the actual concept of a city does not exist as only Amsterdam has more than on million inhabitants but in Dutch you only have two words for villages, towns and cities; “dorp” (village) and “stadt” (town or city) are totally different. Rotterdam was always a port town more akin to Liverpool. You have to know Rotterdammers they are not my favourite people. I worked there for six years. Amsterdammers are brash and loud. Utrecht is a village full of students. Plenty of cheap restaurants and cafes.

This is only the west of the Netherlands. The north, south and east are also so different. I only know properly east of the Netherlands around the city of Nijmegen. Actually a hilly town but very pretty.

Over food. The Dutch tend these days to eat a lot on the hoof. Patat (French fries) and in Vlaanderen “fritjes” are still popular but I am afraid to say the American fast food chains have moved in. Nine I love haringen (raw herring) and the best “haring kram” (herring car) is outside the parliament buildings. I often eat there with the ministers and secretaries of the government which is one other thing I like there is no class carry on as in Britain.

@Zukiwi Your point about taking up the floor. I think you mean floor coverings. When you sell a house here, it has to be empty unless an agreement has been made concerning certain items. If you leave stuff behind you can charged for its removal.

There is one last thing that I really appreciate here is when something gets broken in the street like a light or traffic lights or anything that looks ugly it repaired very quickly.
I have American ex-pats who complain that the Dutch are always repairing the roads. I have worked for years in Transport and Traffic and the Dutch believe in prevention is better than cure and with the amount of traffic we have it is very necessary. One small useless fact the Netherlands has more roads per relative area than any other European country.

I visited there, can't remember much, was too stoned.

Scot Dutchy wrote:It is nice to hear so many different comments. I cannot really comment having lived here far too long that I even consider myself Dutch.

What's your original country of origin?

NineBerry wrote:

Scot Dutchy wrote:It is nice to hear so many different comments. I cannot really comment having lived here far too long that I even consider myself Dutch.

What's your original country of origin?

I think my tag says it Nine. Scot Dutchy.

I was bought up in Edinburgh, Scotland.

Only spent one week there in 2002. Husband and I visited our daughter who spent a semester there. She lived just a few houses up from the Anne Frank house.

People were friendly and helpful. They speak very good English with hardly any accent. I was only in Amsterdam.

Oh, the people are VERY TALL.

Husband is 6'2" and he was often dwarfed by many of the men and almost some of the women. At only 5'4", often felt like a frickin' midget .

Julia wrote:Only spent one week there in 2002. Husband and I visited our daughter who spent a semester there. She lived just a few houses up from the Anne Frank house.

People were friendly and helpful. They speak very good English with hardly any accent. I was only in Amsterdam.

Oh, the people are VERY TALL.

Husband is 6'2" and he was often dwarfed by many of the men and almost some of the women. At only 5'4", often felt like a frickin' midget .

I know Julia at 5'11" I was tall for Edinburgh but when I came here I am just below average (well thats in the north if you go to Limburg in the south they are much smaller).

In my office whenwe have a reception I always end up with a crick in my kneck. There are whole group of young colleagues who are over 2 metres the tallest is 2.15 metres. The length of a standard Dutch bed is now 2.10 metres. But as I have said that is only in the north. In Brabant and Limburg they are much shorter. In Limburg you see a lot of Italian looking guys. In the begininng ofthe 20th. centuary a large number of Italians came to work in the coal mines in Limburg and their genes are still very much in evidence. In Belgium they are even smaller especially women. Some are tiny but still manage to be good catholics and produce 10 kids.

Tell us more about the Hague, man. What is there to do there? How's the economy? Wilders get shut down yet?

NineOneFour wrote:Tell us more about the Hague, man. What is there to do there? How's the economy? Wilders get shut down yet?

What way do you want to know?
BTW over Wilders is it very quiet. He has to rethink his whole plan because of Cohen. He is still losing popularity.

The economy is going in the right direction exports up 11%. Unemployment has dropped but was never really high. We did not suffer so much from the crisis as much as some countries due to the Dutch banking system. The one problem left in the banking world is well it was meant to be the take over of ABNAmro by the Royal Bank of Scotland and Foris Bank of Belgium.
Well with RBS and Fortis went turtle during the takeover. The Dutch governemnt bought out the ABNAmro bank sold off the Belgium part of Fortis and is now taking over RBS instead of the other way round. The government has made a lot of money on the deal. RBS and the British government are not too happy though.

In the Hague there is everything to do. It has a large shopping area free of traffic. The are lovely squares which shortly will be filled with terraces. There is the beach and dunes. It is a very quiet city as more more traffic is diverted round the city.
It is just a pleasant place to live. Very cosmopolitan in fact English is almost a second language.