pennypitstop wrote:... corrected my abysmal grammar and carried on the rest of the conversation in English

Sgt Kelly wrote:If you don't make many mistakes then people would likely correct you even if they knew you to be a native Dutch speaker.

You shouldn't see it as correcting you so much as making a helpful suggestion. I know it probably doesn't sound as such to you from the way it's uttered, but trust me on this. Dutch speakers will do this amongst themselves.

Sgt Kelly wrote:You can use the same trick in German, all diminutives are neutral. Be aware though that doing this will make you sound like a Valley Girl though, like, totally.

Scot Dutchy wrote:

pennypitstop wrote:I loved Holland/Netherlands (can someone tell me what it should be called and why?) when I went there on a student exchange, I was 17. I found the people very friendly, helpful, relaxed, fun to be around. The parents of the student I stayed with were just fab, they spoke in English the whole time I was in the house even when discussing bills and who's turn it was to vacuum the hallway! Apparently they liked the practice... of English, not vacuuming!

When I went out shopping I tried a little bit of Dutch but I didn't meet anyone that didn't speak English. They giggled at my attempts, corrected my abysmal grammar and carried on the rest of the conversation in English.

The Stroopwafels are damn awesome... and Sainsbury's now stock them! Yey!

I know several Dutchies through gaming, loads in our guild (World of Warcraft) and they're all really nice guys and gals with similar world views. Very down to earth. Just love 'em.

I can safely say it's the only European country I would emigrate to if given a choice.

The official term is The Kindom of The Netherlands (De Koningrijk der Nederlanden).
The Nrtherlands is the proper name. Why Holland came to be used is patially historical. The major ports are in Noord and Zuid Holland. The main fleets came there so when the Dutch were fighting everyone they were called Hollanders and it has stuck. Even a lot of the Dutch in North and South Holland still refer to themselves as Hollanders and say they speak Hollands.

It was snobish in the 18th and patially in the 19th centuries to call yourself Hollands as the other provinces were very rural.
Even today for many Dutch the province where you come from is very important.

Yes they all think they can speak English it is all very superficial. Scratch a bit harder and they dry up. But the problem is convincing them that you can speak Dutch. I have no problem lived here so damn long and I can curse swear as good as the next Dutchman. My wife who has lived here now for five years does still now and again still gets answered in English even though her Dutch is very good (her grammar is better than mine I never followed any lessons she does nothing else. I know it from instinct she knows the rules).

I once did a project with a Dutch guy who was mad about World of Warcraft he apparently was a top warrior (I personally know nothing about the game).

@NineOneFour They usually are working for an English language company on an international level. Their kids go to English language schools. Their social world is that of the other parents of the kids at school. Most official documents are available in English. So basically there is no need.

There are plenty of ex-pats clubs and my wife is a member of the Americam, British, Irish and International women's clubs. She joined when she came here. It provides plenty of social events.
The international club by its rules has to have a 25% Dutch membership and they organise many Dutch events. My wife goes to the Dutch book club there.

epepke wrote:I was in Amsterdam, and I loved it. However, I spent most of my time away from the center of the city, the sex trade and marijuana area, in what we might call the suburbs here. Brownstone buildings and laughing children everywhere. There are few sounds that are gentler than the speech of a Nederlands child. It reminded me of the best in New York. Even the automats. In the city, I enjoyed walking around the street canals when nobody was around. Probably would be dangerous whilst drunk, but I never found much alcohol I liked there.

Wonderful museums, including a church that had been converted into an exhibit of reliquaries from all over the world. Realist paintings that are an order of magnitude more impressive than any prints, more impressively so than any paintings I've seen. Very nice people. Tall and skinny. I took a course in Dutch before I went, but I found that most would rather practice English. Oddly enough, amazingly great Oriental groceries there.

But it was only Amsterdam, so I guess I don't know anything about the Netherlands.

Odd. I would think that if you did not speak Dutch, you could not get a job there.

Scot Dutchy wrote:

Odd. I would think that if you did not speak Dutch, you could not get a job there.

Plenty of international companies looking for well educated people. English is the international business language.
Take my old company. Dutch through and through but three years it bought up a very big Danish engineering company which had quite a number of offices throughout Europe. The working language outside the Dutch market is English. We have Poles (we have offices in Poland), Italians and Chinese working in our Dutch offices.

NineOneFour wrote:

Scot Dutchy wrote:

Odd. I would think that if you did not speak Dutch, you could not get a job there.

Plenty of international companies looking for well educated people. English is the international business language.
Take my old company. Dutch through and through but three years it bought up a very big Danish engineering company which had quite a number of offices throughout Europe. The working language outside the Dutch market is English. We have Poles (we have offices in Poland), Italians and Chinese working in our Dutch offices.

But surely they speak Dutch at work?

Scot Dutchy wrote:

NineOneFour wrote:

Scot Dutchy wrote:

Odd. I would think that if you did not speak Dutch, you could not get a job there.

Plenty of international companies looking for well educated people. English is the international business language.
Take my old company. Dutch through and through but three years it bought up a very big Danish engineering company which had quite a number of offices throughout Europe. The working language outside the Dutch market is English. We have Poles (we have offices in Poland), Italians and Chinese working in our Dutch offices.

But surely they speak Dutch at work?

Only the Dutch amoungst themselves. To foreign colleagues English is spoken. It is wierd but there is a lot of English spoken on the work floor. The expectation with the internationisation and the declining Dutch market (you can only build so much infrastructure) is that English will take over.
You have English streams in Dutch schools and in certain subjects in university lectures are in English. Especially subjects as economics, business studies and international law are just an example.
At its height there were over 15000 expats in the Hague (end of the '60's beginning of the '70's before the oil crisis 1n 1973). English was being spoken everywhere but now those have dropped right down to about 5000. The number of short term contracts (up to three years) has disappeared. With modern day communications there is less travelling but a lot more talking and usually (to the annoyance to the French and Germans) in English.

I don't know, man, when I was there, everyone spoke Dutch in the businesses.

Scot Dutchy wrote:

I don't know, man, when I was there, everyone spoke Dutch in the businesses.

When was that and what branch of business?

In Dutch businesses yes but any with any a hint of international trade and it is English. The changes are happening fast and furious. The advances in communication have seen to that. My office email has 5000 employees in 17 countries. General memo's used to be sent to each in country in its own language not now the universal European English has moved in.
THe strange thing it is not English in the English or American sense. It is European English. It is difficult to describe mostly it is sentence construction. A bit of Dutch, German, Danish or Polish. It is simple but clear and very odd for an English speaker but you do get used to it. If you talk about evolution well it is happening with English language.
For official documents of course Queen's English is used no Americanisms I am afraid.

NineBerry wrote:No, it is German English! I tell you, it is the Germanization of Europe!

Ups, wrong thread... sorry

NineOneFour wrote:Yes, I agree with that. The English spoken in Europe is British English, not American English.