The ramifications of blockchain technology?

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Re: The ramifications of blockchain technology?

#361  Postby jamest » Feb 18, 2020 5:42 am

What a complete load of bollocks. If I was an addictive gambler I'd be at the bookies almost every night of the week making bets about almost anything, or in the nearest casino. The truth is that I don't bet. I'm not a gambler.

As I explained when I first mentioned this, it's an INVESTMENT. No different from anyone here investing their savings in a pension, a bank, government bonds, an ISA, whatever. The truth is that I withdrew the funds from my pension and placed them into crypto and gold/silver. Mainly crypto.

Unless you're sleeping on a park bench at this moment and have zero funds invested anywhere, you have zero right to call me anything. If you have wealth, to whatever degree, invested in banks/stocks/pensions/bonds, then you're an "addictive gambler" too.
The only difference between me and you is in the manner we've stored our money. So spare me the bullshit.
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Re: The ramifications of blockchain technology?

#362  Postby Hermit » Feb 18, 2020 7:47 am

jamest wrote:The truth is that I don't bet. I'm not a gambler.

There's that river in Egypt again. :roll:

You are a gambler. You bet on crypto currencies like other people bet on horses, hoping they come good, and like many of the latter you think you've read enough of the form guide to beat the odds. You acknowledged as much in this post (as well as others).
I'm fully aware of risk/reward ratios [...] I know what I'm doing [...] I'm even enjoying it. It suits me.

At the end of the day, I'm risking about 20K to make upwards of a million pounds within two to three years.
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Re: The ramifications of blockchain technology?

#363  Postby Scot Dutchy » Feb 18, 2020 9:51 am

The first defence of an addict is denial.
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Re: The ramifications of blockchain technology?

#364  Postby Fallible » Feb 18, 2020 12:47 pm

jamest wrote:What a complete load of bollocks. If I was an addictive gambler I'd be at the bookies almost every night of the week making bets about almost anything, or in the nearest casino.


Nope.

The truth is that I don't bet. I'm not a gambler.


Okay then.

As I explained when I first mentioned this, it's an INVESTMENT. No different from anyone here investing their savings in a pension, a bank, government bonds, an ISA, whatever. The truth is that I withdrew the funds from my pension and placed them into crypto and gold/silver. Mainly crypto.

Unless you're sleeping on a park bench at this moment and have zero funds invested anywhere, you have zero right to call me anything. If you have wealth, to whatever degree, invested in banks/stocks/pensions/bonds, then you're an "addictive gambler" too.
The only difference between me and you is in the manner we've stored our money. So spare me the bullshit.


Garbled nonsense for a change.
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Re: The ramifications of blockchain technology?

#365  Postby jamest » Feb 19, 2020 12:01 am

Statistically, some of you won't have very much money and just get along week-to-week. However, many of you here will have nest eggs of various sizes. Unless you've stuffed it under the mattress (which is silly because money devalues wrt inflation on a yearly basis and there's also the risk of fire/theft), where have you invested it?

Surely, you've done a little research and have decided to put it into a specific 'place(s)' where hopefully it will accrue some interest. Well, guess what I've done? Exactly that, also. However, you guys aren't gamblers yet I am? :nono:
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Re: The ramifications of blockchain technology?

#366  Postby Fallible » Feb 19, 2020 12:15 am

Yep.
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Re: The ramifications of blockchain technology?

#367  Postby Hermit » Feb 19, 2020 12:26 am

Yes, JamesT. You are a gambler. We are not. There's a difference between paying off a mortgage and currency speculation, particularly when you place your bet on currencies that have no economic basis other than other gamblers betting on them.
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Re: The ramifications of blockchain technology?

#368  Postby jamest » Feb 19, 2020 2:01 am

Hermit wrote:Yes, JamesT. You are a gambler. We are not. There's a difference between paying off a mortgage and currency speculation,

Whoa. Everyone needs a home so whether one rents or buys is not an issue here. I'm talking specifically about what one does with one's nest egg, if lucky enough to have one. That extra cash that you have and want to save for the future. Other than sticking it under the mattress, one has to think about where best to keep/invest it.

Most people probably just leave it in the bank, which is a dummy thing to do given the shite return on interest these days. However, anyone who remembers the previous crash in 2008 and the banking crisis, should not be deluding themselves that trusting a bank is not a massive gamble. Go and read about HSBC or Deutsche bank to read how close another banking crisis looms.

Anywhere and everywhere one keeps one's nest egg, is a gamble.


particularly when you place your bet on currencies that have no economic basis other than other gamblers betting on them.

No currency has a basis. That's the essence of fiat currency: nothing! Go and google 'US dollar collapse' and see how many people are talking about it. Go and read the article I linked to about a year ago. Here's a snippet followed by the link:


Every fiat currency has ended in devaluation and eventual collapse, right from the Roman Empire in the 1st century AD to modern times. The domino effect of these collapses has led to large wipe outs of masses’ wealth as well as economic hardships for the nations. The above incidents show that it takes years for a bubble to form, as they are built due to the gradual increase in monetary bases over the years. But it takes just about a year (or few) to pop, creating chaos till the time “new order” is adopted.

As these events are “black swan” events, they are often overlooked by investors due to “normalcy bias”. But, whenever these events play out again they give little chance to protect wealth. The resultant resets are painful and generally lead to a wipe out of a large proportion of wealth of general population.

The examples above serve to show that, historically, fiat systems are arbitrary, unstable and will fail. Presently, monetary policy is not a science – it is based on people’s faith in their currency and estimates and predictions. As mentioned earlier, printing more currency does not result in an actual increase in wealth. This ‘currency debasement’ has been one of the main reasons for financial collapses in the past.


https://multi-act.com/evolution-of-mone ... cy-system/


So spare me the spiel about fiat currency having a basis and not being a gamble.
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Re: The ramifications of blockchain technology?

#369  Postby Hermit » Feb 19, 2020 2:42 am

jamest wrote:Anywhere and everywhere one keeps one's nest egg, is a gamble.

You're using the word "gamble" in its widest sense. I have some money in the bank, some more in a superannuation account and the rest has been used to pay off my home. Certainly, none of those locations are without risk, but compared to crypto, those risks are minimal. Not a single bank or super fund has gone belly-up in Australia since that nation's foundation in 1901. I am not a gambler, though I have gambled at roulette tables almost 50 years ago. I am content with low returns in exchange for low risks. You are a gambler, taking high risks in the hope of high returns.

jamest wrote:anyone who remembers the previous crash in 2008 and the banking crisis, should not be deluding themselves that trusting a bank is not a massive gamble

Rubbish. Banks dealing with the Ponzi scheme that became was the sub-prime mortgage market got into serious strife, but nobody's savings accounts were lost. The people who bought cryptocurrency between December 2017 and January 2018, on the other hand, are still waiting to see a decent return on their investments.
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Re: The ramifications of blockchain technology?

#370  Postby jamest » Feb 19, 2020 3:20 am

It's late so I can't be arsed to google, but iirc many big banks would have capitulated if it weren't for government bail-outs (at the tax-payer's expense). If it happens again, wave goodbye to your money.

Further, I've been an advocate for buying bitcoin/crypto since the bottom of a bear market when the price was a little over $3,500, not the top of a bull market where prices touched almost $20,000. Regardless, if I'm right even those people you chose to mention will see a good return within a year.
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Re: The ramifications of blockchain technology?

#371  Postby Hermit » Feb 19, 2020 4:15 am

jamest wrote:It's late so I can't be arsed to google, but iirc many big banks would have capitulated if it weren't for government bail-outs (at the tax-payer's expense). If it happens again, wave goodbye to your money.

Don't bother googling. There is no doubt that more than one bank would have gone out of existence had the government not bailed them out. The government bailed them out, so they survived. Next time there is a similar crisis, the government will bail them out again. Government bailouts are one more reason why putting your money into a bank account is less of a risk than putting it into cryptocurrencies.


jamest wrote:Further, I've been an advocate for buying bitcoin/crypto since the bottom of a bear market when the price was a little over $3,500, not the top of a bull market where prices touched almost $20,000.

Good on you, sport, but your brilliance makes placing bets on cryptocurrencies no less a gamble.
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Re: The ramifications of blockchain technology?

#372  Postby jamest » Feb 19, 2020 4:42 am

Hermit wrote:
jamest wrote:It's late so I can't be arsed to google, but iirc many big banks would have capitulated if it weren't for government bail-outs (at the tax-payer's expense). If it happens again, wave goodbye to your money.

Don't bother googling. There is no doubt that more than one bank would have gone out of existence had the government not bailed them out. The government bailed them out, so they survived. Next time there is a similar crisis, the government will bail them out again. Government bailouts are one more reason why putting your money into a bank account is less of a risk than putting it into cryptocurrencies.

I thought you were brighter than thinking that banks were immune to collapse because their governments and their fiat were immune to collapse. There is obviously a systematic crisis here. The 2008 debacle highlighted what was wrong with the status quo across the board, including governments and banks. Governments aren't Gods and banks are obviously not so. Your government, anyone's government, cannot just bail-out anyone and everyone indefinitely. Have you not heard of the debt crisis? And I'm talking about governments here, not individuals.


jamest wrote:Further, I've been an advocate for buying bitcoin/crypto since the bottom of a bear market when the price was a little over $3,500, not the top of a bull market where prices touched almost $20,000.

Good on you, sport, but your brilliance makes placing bets on cryptocurrencies no less a gamble.

I don't proclaim to be a genius in any department other than philosophy. :grin:

The bottom-line is that I've invested a LOT of my time in studying the financial situation of the world and have decided that crypto and gold/silver represent the safest means of investment for your average Joe for the short/medium term. I acknowledge that, unlike my philosophy, there is a potential here for me to look like an ass. I will admit that, but I will NOT acknowledge that I'm a gambler compared to anyone else here with a nest-egg.
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Re: The ramifications of blockchain technology?

#373  Postby Hermit » Feb 19, 2020 4:59 am

jamest wrote:
Hermit wrote:
jamest wrote:It's late so I can't be arsed to google, but iirc many big banks would have capitulated if it weren't for government bail-outs (at the tax-payer's expense). If it happens again, wave goodbye to your money.

Don't bother googling. There is no doubt that more than one bank would have gone out of existence had the government not bailed them out. The government bailed them out, so they survived. Next time there is a similar crisis, the government will bail them out again. Government bailouts are one more reason why putting your money into a bank account is less of a risk than putting it into cryptocurrencies.

I thought you were brighter than thinking that banks were immune to collapse

Oh. Did I say "banks were immune to collapse"? Let me have a look...

jamest wrote:The bottom-line is that I've invested a LOT of my time in studying the financial situation

I don't doubt that for a second. The smarter gamblers also spend a lot of time studying form guides and listening what trainers and other experts have to say about some future horse race.

jamest wrote:I will NOT acknowledge that I'm a gambler compared to anyone else here with a nest-egg.

I know. You've said so often enough.
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Re: The ramifications of blockchain technology?

#374  Postby OlivierK » Feb 19, 2020 6:25 am

Hermit's got you bang to rights when he quoted this:
jamest wrote:At the end of the day, I'm risking about 20K to make upwards of a million pounds within two to three years.

That's a targeted annual return of over 350% p.a. for three years. You understand risk-reward ratios, so you'd know that even targeting a tenth of that return would be classified as requiring a high-risk investment profile. Even horse-racing punters wouldn't be targeting that sort of return three years running, although it's possible if they struck it lucky.

I can assure you that I'm not looking to take the sort of risks that go hand in hand with that sort of return with my own nest egg, which is, at this stage, mainly held as real estate due to it being useful for us to avoid paying rent by buying another house to live in while our kids are at high school (given that our main house isn't near any decent schools, nor near our kids' sports' venues).

James, I wish you every bit of luck imaginable gambling your way to a million pounds, but there doesn't seem to be much sense denying that's what you're aiming to do.
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Re: The ramifications of blockchain technology?

#375  Postby Fallible » Feb 19, 2020 8:26 am

‘Risking 20k’...Jesus...
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Re: The ramifications of blockchain technology?

#376  Postby Scot Dutchy » Feb 19, 2020 8:32 am

We call it here "reken je rijk" (calculate your rich). All gamblers do it. An illusion and he has to go with it. 20k of what btw? 20k of buttons does not go far. :lol:
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Re: The ramifications of blockchain technology?

#377  Postby minininja » Feb 19, 2020 10:44 pm

jamest wrote:No currency has a basis.

They can have the basis of a national economy. Millions of people, living, working, trading with the currency, and as long as the government can demand taxes be paid in that currency as a proportion of that work, trade etc. then it necessarily has value because people are forced to exchange some real world physical asset, or their time and labour, for the currency to pay their taxes.

jamest wrote:Anywhere and everywhere one keeps one's nest egg, is a gamble.

I'm someone with some savings and the amounts I've put aside as not immediately needed have gone into a *diverse range* of shares, bonds, community projects, etc. all based on organisations or economies with *real world assets* and *ongoing productive businesses*, whilst knowing that any one of them individually could still drop to zero but that it's highly unlikely that the majority of them will, without the end of civilisation as we know it.

Whereas I've yet to hear of a cryptocurrency that has value based significantly on anything connected to real world value. There is limited value in their use as a black market exchange mechanism. And there may certainly be value in blockchain technology if it is developed for international exchange between big businesses etc, but value there is going to depend on small margins on large volume, not something that will give massive percentage returns except to a few lucky enough to be there at the start of the particular version that becomes successful. The main thing that is currently giving cryptocurrencies their value is people speculating on how much they might be worth in the future, because they believe the hype or have convinced themselves that they can predict speculative markets, and other people conning them into Ponzi schemes and doing things that are normally illegal like manipulating markets to their own advantage.
[Disclaimer - if this is comes across like I think I know what I'm talking about, I want to make it clear that I don't. I'm just trying to get my thoughts down]
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Re: The ramifications of blockchain technology?

#378  Postby Hermit » Feb 20, 2020 1:57 am

minininja wrote:The main thing that is currently giving cryptocurrencies their value is people speculating on how much they might be worth in the future, because they believe the hype or have convinced themselves that they can predict speculative markets, and other people conning them into Ponzi schemes and doing things that are normally illegal like manipulating markets to their own advantage.


:this:, and that's despite the fact that conventional currencies lack secure foundations in large part due to the practices of fractional lending and quantitative easing.
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Re: The ramifications of blockchain technology?

#379  Postby newolder » Feb 28, 2020 7:21 pm

1 Bitcoin equals
6,677.67 Pound sterling
28 Feb, 19:13 UTC


Back to June 2019 levels again.
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Re: The ramifications of blockchain technology?

#380  Postby Spearthrower » Feb 28, 2020 7:29 pm

The bottom-line is that I've invested a LOT of my time in studying the financial situation of the world and have decided that crypto and gold/silver represent the safest means of investment for your average Joe for the short/medium term.


I know bugger all about cryptocurrencies as I am not a speculator, but I do know that gold assuredly does not represent anything like a 'safe' bet for investment as has been shown time and time again, and in fact, as well as not being particularly safe, it also tends to result in dramatically lower returns.
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