4 teenagers in Pensacola Harbour killed by a sea serpent?

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Re: 4 teenagers in Pensacola Harbour killed by a sea serpent?

#81  Postby KeenIdiot » Jul 11, 2014 3:48 pm

laklak wrote:
KeenIdiot wrote:Yep, I'm in Milton, from Pensacola. Don't get out to the water much but love the beach.
Though we're in the same area, not met NamelessFaceless yet.
I know about Hovind from going to school next to his park.


Cool. We should all grab a beer sometime when I'm up on Dog. Might cause an earthquake or fire tornado or something. Either that or we'd get crucified.

I've spent a lot of time out on Gulf waters, haven't seen a sea serpent yet but I'll keep looking. When I'm up in the mountains I keep a weather eye out for Bigfoot, but sadly no sightings (yet).

Sounds like a plan, I look forward to it.
I'm spent a lot of time out in the water when I was younger, never saw anything weird. Even, disappointingly, when we went for a trip in the Triangle.
While things can hide in the sea, something that ventures into commercial waters like the Gulf would be pretty readily spotted.
As has been pointed out to Soral the last time he/she popped up.
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Re: 4 teenagers in Pensacola Harbour killed by a sea serpent?

#82  Postby theropod » Jul 11, 2014 3:53 pm

Soral wrote:
theropod wrote:
Soral wrote:
theropod wrote:If I draw a picture of a dromeosaur and claim I saw one in my forest are you gonna accept that as empirical evidence, or are you more likely to adjudicate that I've made up a story?

RS


Well, are there dead bodies in the forest?


Are there are dead bodies to examine in this instance, or did the "sea serpent" eat them?

And I would assume you made up the story. It's much easier for an extremely rare, deep-dwelling animal to remain elusive in the sea, in comparison to a forest.

Edward McCleary sent letters to Tims Dinsdale about what he saw. He also wrote to FATE.


Wow, the person can write? Amazing, tell me more. Specifically how is this evidence of anything being factual about his assertions?

RS


One body washed to shore days after McCleary was rescued. The body of 14-year old Bradford Rice, one of the boys who was with McCleary.


OK, so there was a body. Did it show wounds, if there were any, inconsistent with a shark attack which would be the case if this supposed sea serpent attacked the deceased?

No there were no such wounds (found after a Google search).

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Re: 4 teenagers in Pensacola Harbour killed by a sea serpent?

#83  Postby Soral » Jul 11, 2014 3:57 pm

Matt_B wrote:
Sendraks wrote:
Soral wrote:
Still, sea serpents must be very heavy and dense (going from snake anatomy) - not good if you want to wash to shore when you die.


Which is neat if you want to create reasons for why such a creature might not have been found.
Doesn't mean we have any reason to give credence to their existence or the claims of those who have seen them.


The density of most marine animals tends to be about the same, as they're neutrally buoyant in water. However sometimes, when they die, their guts will rot and the resulting trapped gas will make them bloat up and float to the surface. I don't suppose there's a convincing argument as to why that wouldn't happen to sea serpents?


Blue whales are negatively buoyant
And in the deep sea, it is very cold, hard for bacteria to survive and grow
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Re: 4 teenagers in Pensacola Harbour killed by a sea serpent?

#84  Postby Soral » Jul 11, 2014 3:58 pm

theropod wrote:
Soral wrote:
theropod wrote:
Soral wrote:

Well, are there dead bodies in the forest?


Are there are dead bodies to examine in this instance, or did the "sea serpent" eat them?

And I would assume you made up the story. It's much easier for an extremely rare, deep-dwelling animal to remain elusive in the sea, in comparison to a forest.

Edward McCleary sent letters to Tims Dinsdale about what he saw. He also wrote to FATE.


Wow, the person can write? Amazing, tell me more. Specifically how is this evidence of anything being factual about his assertions?

RS


One body washed to shore days after McCleary was rescued. The body of 14-year old Bradford Rice, one of the boys who was with McCleary.


OK, so there was a body. Did it show wounds, if there were any, inconsistent with a shark attack which would be the case if this supposed sea serpent attacked the deceased?

No there were no such wounds (found after a Google search).

RS


'No there were no such wounds (found after a Google search)''

Who said so?
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Re: 4 teenagers in Pensacola Harbour killed by a sea serpent?

#85  Postby Sendraks » Jul 11, 2014 3:59 pm

The only reason this is of any interest is because of the mystique that exists around cryptids.

If the sea serpent were found to be real, I doubt it would attract such following, as it would lose its mystique and just become another bit of "boring old science."

Because, you know, the stuff that does actually exist out there isn't fascinating enough apparently.
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Re: 4 teenagers in Pensacola Harbour killed by a sea serpent?

#86  Postby Sendraks » Jul 11, 2014 4:03 pm

Soral wrote:And in the deep sea, it is very cold, hard for bacteria to survive and grow


When you say "very cold" how cold do you mean?
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Re: 4 teenagers in Pensacola Harbour killed by a sea serpent?

#87  Postby CdesignProponentsist » Jul 11, 2014 4:05 pm

NamelessFaceless wrote:


Yeah, but that one was real. They had a drawing! :hide:

:dopey:


You must have skipped this part of the video.

Image

:smug:



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Re: 4 teenagers in Pensacola Harbour killed by a sea serpent?

#88  Postby Matt_B » Jul 11, 2014 4:23 pm

Soral wrote:Blue whales are negatively buoyant
And in the deep sea, it is very cold, hard for bacteria to survive and grow


It's always warm enough in an animal's gut for bacteria to grow, regardless of the sea temperature outside.

And, despite some whales being negatively buoyant, they still occasionally float ashore when they die.
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Re: 4 teenagers in Pensacola Harbour killed by a sea serpent?

#89  Postby theropod » Jul 11, 2014 4:25 pm

LINK
http://www.skepticforum.com

If cause of death was listed as drowning, it precludes attack by a predator, so yeah... just drowning due to exhaustion, hypothermia, etc.


Of course anyone is more than welcome to cite the actual autopsy report.

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Re: 4 teenagers in Pensacola Harbour killed by a sea serpent?

#90  Postby KeenIdiot » Jul 11, 2014 4:39 pm

Yeah, he/she has been asked repeatedly to contact the morgue that did the autopsy but has declined to do so.
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Re: 4 teenagers in Pensacola Harbour killed by a sea serpent?

#91  Postby Soral » Jul 11, 2014 4:47 pm

Sendraks wrote:The only reason this is of any interest is because of the mystique that exists around cryptids.

If the sea serpent were found to be real, I doubt it would attract such following, as it would lose its mystique and just become another bit of "boring old science."

Because, you know, the stuff that does actually exist out there isn't fascinating enough apparently.


5 C, in some areas even lower.

How do you think a sea serpent that has sunk to the bottom of the ocean is going to wash to shores?
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Re: 4 teenagers in Pensacola Harbour killed by a sea serpent?

#92  Postby Soral » Jul 11, 2014 4:48 pm

theropod wrote:LINK
http://www.skepticforum.com

If cause of death was listed as drowning, it precludes attack by a predator, so yeah... just drowning due to exhaustion, hypothermia, etc.


Of course anyone is more than welcome to cite the actual autopsy report.

RS


No it does not.

Dawn Brancheu's death was ruled as ''drowning''. However, she was held down by a killer whale. So no, it does not preclude an attack.

The cause of death does not necessarily detail the circumstances of death. A person being held down in a bath tub would have their death ruled as a ''drowning'', despite the circumstance being murder.
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Re: 4 teenagers in Pensacola Harbour killed by a sea serpent?

#93  Postby BlackBart » Jul 11, 2014 5:23 pm

Soral wrote:
Sendraks wrote:The only reason this is of any interest is because of the mystique that exists around cryptids.

If the sea serpent were found to be real, I doubt it would attract such following, as it would lose its mystique and just become another bit of "boring old science."

Because, you know, the stuff that does actually exist out there isn't fascinating enough apparently.


5 C, in some areas even lower.

How do you think a sea serpent that has sunk to the bottom of the ocean is going to wash to shores?


What sea serpent would that be? You have no evidence for any sea serpent other than anecdote and nothing other than ex recto assertion that any sea serpent would sink to the bottom.
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Re: 4 teenagers in Pensacola Harbour killed by a sea serpent?

#94  Postby Skate » Jul 11, 2014 5:26 pm

Where would the most obvious place be to look for a large predatory animal that feeds on fish and other marine life? Probably in areas where there are lots and lots of fish and marine life, right?

Upwelling is an oceanographic phenomenon that involves wind-driven motion of dense, cooler, and usually nutrient-rich water towards the ocean surface, replacing the warmer, usually nutrient-depleted surface water. The nutrient-rich upwelled water stimulates the growth and reproduction of primary producers such as phytoplankton. Due to the biomass of phytoplankton and presence of cool water in these regions, upwelling zones can be identified by cool sea surface temperatures (SST) and high concentrations of chlorophyll-a.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upwelling


Humans exploit these areas, and I imagine plesiosaurs would, too. So, why, then, are there not loads of commercial fishermen complaining about plesiosaurs eating their bounty?
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Re: 4 teenagers in Pensacola Harbour killed by a sea serpent?

#95  Postby Sendraks » Jul 11, 2014 5:26 pm

Soral wrote:5 C, in some areas even lower.

Not a temperature which would inhibit the existence of all bacteria.

Soral wrote:How do you think a sea serpent that has sunk to the bottom of the ocean is going to wash to shores?

Why do you assume that these hypothetical creatures all sink to the bottom of the ocean floor. Why aren't they dying on the continental shelves or nearer shore?

Or do they only ever come to shore on that one occasion to attack humans?
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Re: 4 teenagers in Pensacola Harbour killed by a sea serpent?

#96  Postby Soral » Jul 11, 2014 5:27 pm

'Serpent' implies a snake, so I'm using facts from anatomy common in snakes.

What makes you think they'll go UP the shelves to somehow appear on beaches, as opposed to sliding down them?
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Re: 4 teenagers in Pensacola Harbour killed by a sea serpent?

#97  Postby Matt_B » Jul 11, 2014 5:28 pm

I can only guess that all sea serpents head off towards a special graveyard at the bottom of the Marianas trench when they're about to die. ;)
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Re: 4 teenagers in Pensacola Harbour killed by a sea serpent?

#98  Postby Sendraks » Jul 11, 2014 5:31 pm

Soral wrote:What makes you think they'll go UP the shelves to somehow appear on beaches, as opposed to sliding down them?


So you're saying a serpent didn't come near to the coast then, to kill people at Pensacola?
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Re: 4 teenagers in Pensacola Harbour killed by a sea serpent?

#99  Postby BlackBart » Jul 11, 2014 5:36 pm

Soral wrote:'Serpent' implies a snake, so I'm using facts from anatomy common in snakes.

What makes you think they'll go UP the shelves to somehow appear on beaches, as opposed to sliding down them?


Again, what sea serpent? You've nothing but anecdote and speculation.

Edit: Not only that, the Pensicola 'creature' was described as a 'plesiosaur-like animal', not a serpent.
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Re: 4 teenagers in Pensacola Harbour killed by a sea serpent?

#100  Postby Soral » Jul 11, 2014 5:41 pm

Sendraks wrote:
Soral wrote:What makes you think they'll go UP the shelves to somehow appear on beaches, as opposed to sliding down them?


So you're saying a serpent didn't come near to the coast then, to kill people at Pensacola?


I'm saying, assume that sea serpents were extremely rare. The chance of one dying near the coast (considering their alleged immense size) would be very unlikely considering how vast the ocean is. Even if one did there would be a good chance it'd just be swept out to sea, since an animal would need to be very close to shore in order to be pushed toward the beach.
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