Animavore wrote:

...The discrepancy, the researchers said, was staggering. About 80 percent of Exxon Mobil’s research and internal memos acknowledged that climate change was real and caused by humans. However, 80 percent of the company’s newspaper ads regarding climate change questioned this fact, the study found.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/exx ... mg00000063

And that's the type of shit you can't sweep under no rug.

I put this up on my FB page, surprisingly none of my anti-AGW friends had anything to say.
When the former Weather Channel owner or some shill for the Heartland Institute says something, they're all ga ga over that.

I saw this story in the usual right-wing mags a couple of weeks ago and forgot to post it. Here's a thorough debunking of it anyway.

Animavore wrote:I saw this story in the usual right-wing mags a couple of weeks ago and forgot to post it. Here's a thorough debunking of it anyway.

It's amazing how willfully ignorant deniers are. I read the intro to the study and it's plain even with that little info the deniers were talking out of their ass.

I read the headline, saw it was The Telegraph, and knew they were talking out their arse. The Guardian published it correctly that day.

At this point in time it is wilful, self serving ignorance.
As with Exxon ...inexcusable.

Macdoc wrote:At this point in time it is wilful, self serving ignorance.
As with Exxon ...inexcusable.

Climate change denial (or recognition) is not just a thought-experiment. How must one conduct oneself having recognized that global climate change is happening? Is there anything to be done by individuals, or is this strictly a dish on corporations, leaving individuals free to do their globe-trotting free of any guilt that they might be contributing a signal? What sorts of corporations exist to facilitate individual acts of globe-trotting? I don't give a shit about purchasing carbon credits, an elitist ploy.

It might be that scamming on individuals to elicit guilt over contributing a climate change signal is aimed more at reducing the demand for globe-trotting, and hence the price, which might make up a little for buying carbon credits. I know how it goes in anonymous unvetted internet forurms where you can occasionally meet some of the direst assholes ever to trot the face of the globe.

What sorts of corporations exist to facilitate individual acts of globe-trotting? I don't give a shit about purchasing carbon credits, an elitist ploy.

Your problem ....they exist - they help ...if it's carbon neutral or even better slightly more than ......then it's a good thing.

Everyone can contribute .....reducing a carbon footprint is not all that difficult without shivering in the dark. Easy things like passing on asparagus grown in China or Peru.....for local veg.
Smart thermostat if you are fossil fuel powered/heated ( something I don't worry about here in Ontario )
Take transit, buy an EV or at least a hybrid.
Get an energy audit if fossil heating..cooling is involved.....
Drink tap water etc etc

Whoosh.

I was thinking a good way to get closer to being carbon neutral is to spend less time on long-haul airline flights and cruise ships, which I manage quite nicely. See? That was easy. All the other stuff, I do anyway, and have done for decades, but let's not go deeper into the holier-than-thou shit. We'll just end up smelling like shit.

This thread is about climate change denial, which I pointed out is not just a thought experiment, but a fucking way of life.

Can volcanic activity 4km beneath the surface of the Antartic ice affect temperatures on the surface?

That's the claim of Anthony Watt, climate denial populist who is being the recent finding that therefore is volcanic activity believe the ice to dismiss previous claims of warming above.

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/11/15/ ... l-warming/

Animavore wrote:Can volcanic activity 4km beneath the surface of the Antartic ice affect temperatures on the surface?

That's the claim of Anthony Watt, climate denial populist who is being the recent finding that therefore is volcanic activity believe the ice to dismiss previous claims of warming above.

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/11/15/ ... l-warming/

Arguing with (the claims of) climate-change denialists is a guaranteed win, at least in your own mind, although perhaps not on the world stage. When you pick something this stupid to argue with, it says something about your willingness to seek a challenge instead of making fun of stupid people. It's pretty easy to get people to agree with you, here. Get on a denialist forum and subject yourself to punishment that will dwarf anything I can hand out. I'm just saying it's easy to play to a friendly crowd. This is not skepticism of AGW I am handing you but skepticism of the dynamic of internet debate-by-proxy.

Anyone got anything sensible to add?

Animavore wrote:Anyone got anything sensible to add?

Besides, that is, making fun of stupid people and their carbon footprints? Nope. As it was, is, shall be.

I'm not arguing with anyone. I'm asking a question which has a definite answer. You either know it or don't.

Animavore wrote:I'm not arguing with anyone. I'm asking a question which has a definite answer. You either know it or don't.

This is something you should be able to figure out with a rudimentary knowledge of diffusion processes, convection, radiation, and other forms of heat transfer. You know something about how to insulate your house to save energy. You know what happens when you drop a lump of sugar and some cream in your tea and just let it sit. Work your way up from there.

But Ani, you typed "believe the ice" and "Antartic" and did not apply any corrections. My expectations are not high for you to understand whether or not you've received an answer.

Cito di Pense wrote:

Animavore wrote:I'm not arguing with anyone. I'm asking a question which has a definite answer. You either know it or don't.

This is something you should be able to figure out with a rudimentary knowledge of diffusion processes, convection, radiation, and other forms of heat transfer. You know something about how to insulate your house to save energy. Work your way up from there.

But Ani, you typed "believe the ice" and "Antartic" and did not apply any corrections. My expectations are not high for you to understand whether or not you've received an answer.

No. My phone auto corrected incorrectly. I then edited my post.

Animavore wrote:

Cito di Pense wrote:

Animavore wrote:I'm not arguing with anyone. I'm asking a question which has a definite answer. You either know it or don't.

This is something you should be able to figure out with a rudimentary knowledge of diffusion processes, convection, radiation, and other forms of heat transfer. You know something about how to insulate your house to save energy. Work your way up from there.

But Ani, you typed "believe the ice" and "Antartic" and did not apply any corrections. My expectations are not high for you to understand whether or not you've received an answer.

No. My phone auto corrected incorrectly. I then edited my post.

You corrected nothing that I noted. My expectations are not diminished, insofar as they could not have been lowered.

But how about theory of diffusion, huh?

Look, I know the drill. Take any climate change denial and hammer it, no matter how stupid the source, and hang learning anything about heat transfer, the better to become an expert on the heating of the earth.

Animavore wrote:I'm not arguing with anyone.

Animavore wrote:No. My phone auto corrected incorrectly. I then edited my post.

Coulda fucking fooled me.

Spelling mistakes aren't a crime.

As for diffusion, my guess is that at a distance of 4km the heat from any active lava beneath is so diffuse it's not enough to explain a rise in the temperature at air at the surface.

Of course; this is what I want confirmed. I'm not interested in my guess.

I was thinking a good way to get closer to being carbon neutral is to spend less time on long-haul airline flights and cruise ships, which I manage quite nicely. See? That was easy.

That's your choice ...so fucking what ??...you want to hairshirt your way fine - we all applaud your sacrifice

.....I prefer offsets ..my choice and I get to see the planet we are preserving

Inform yourself

https://www.triplepundit.com/special/co ... -good-buy/

snip

Credit offset experts say that often, the biggest obstacle to investing in carbon credits is lack of knowledge about how to do so, and the real statistics when it comes to their global and environmental benefits.

why indeed you could do both ...wouldn't that be bragging rights....

Animavore wrote:Spelling mistakes aren't a crime.

As for diffusion, my guess is that at a distance of 4km the heat from any active lava beneath is so diffuse it's not enough to explain a rise in the temperature at air at the surface.

Of course; this is what I want confirmed. I'm not interested in my guess.

They're spelling mistakes only if you don't believe your autocorrect is infallible.

There's some amount of heat leaking out of the earth via volcanic activity. But you know that volcanic activity is mainly a constant background in earth processes, and persists through periods of warm climate and cold. What's not necessarily a constant is the greenhouse gases that leak out with volcanic activity. What climate change advocates must be saying is that anthropogenic sources of greenhouse gases are swamping the volcanic signal. A brief study of earth's climate history should show you the scope of things. If anything, in the long run, volcanic activity is going to diminish as the earth's interior cools, but this is the long view. Is volcanic activity (via emission of greenhouse gases occasionally a significant factor? Sometimes it has been, but not now.

Macdoc wrote:

I was thinking a good way to get closer to being carbon neutral is to spend less time on long-haul airline flights and cruise ships, which I manage quite nicely. See? That was easy.

That's your choice ...so fucking what ??...you want to hairshirt your way fine - we all applaud your sacrifice

.....I prefer offsets ..my choice and I get to see the planet we are preserving

You prefer the moral equivalent of papal indulgences that not everyone is afforded, Macdoc. No me ne fotte un cazzo.