Expanding earth. Do the continents wind back to a sphere

Discussions on astrology, homeopathy and superstition etc.

Moderators: Calilasseia, DarthHelmet86, Onyx8

Expanding earth. Do the continents wind back to a sphere. Yes or No ?

Yes
29
16%
No
127
72%
Yes But...Add your reason
11
6%
No But...Add your reason
10
6%
 
Total votes : 177

Re: Expanding earth. Do the continents wind back to a sphere

#11441  Postby Sendraks » Feb 21, 2017 4:55 pm

Why Lucid? Why?
"One of the great tragedies of mankind is that morality has been hijacked by religion." - Arthur C Clarke

"'Science doesn't know everything' - Well science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it'd stop" - Dara O'Brian
User avatar
Sendraks
 
Name: D-Money Jr
Posts: 13413
Age: 101
Male

Country: England
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Expanding earth. Do the continents wind back to a sphere

#11442  Postby Weaver » Feb 21, 2017 4:55 pm

Sendraks wrote:Why Lucid? Why?

Some people just want to watch the world burn.

Or blow up. Or expand. Or something.
Image
Retired AiF

Cogito, Ergo Armatus Sum.
User avatar
Weaver
RS Donator
 
Posts: 20123
Age: 49
Male

Country: USA
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Expanding earth. Do the continents wind back to a sphere

#11443  Postby ginckgo » Feb 21, 2017 11:04 pm

LucidFlight wrote:Hello, I was just reading about Zealandia and was wondering if it is of any value to Expanding Earth theory.
http://www.geosociety.org/gsatoday/arch ... 321A.1.htm


Good question. It is a section of the Australian continent that started rifting away in the late Cretaceous, by then ceased drifting apart around 60Ma.

In the EE world view, why did it stop rifting? If surface area is ever increasing, why would any rift stop separating?
Cape illud, fracturor

Mystical explanations are thought to be deep; the truth is that they are not even shallow. Nietzsche
User avatar
ginckgo
 
Posts: 1058
Age: 45
Male

Australia (au)
Print view this post

Re: Expanding earth. Do the continents wind back to a sphere

#11444  Postby THWOTH » Feb 23, 2017 1:52 am

In order to know why we first have to accept that it just is.

:shifty:
"No-one is exempt from speaking nonsense – the only misfortune is to do it solemnly."
Michel de Montaigne, Essais, 1580
User avatar
THWOTH
RS Donator
 
Name: Penrose
Posts: 36924
Age: 52

Country: Untied Kingdom
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Expanding earth. Do the continents wind back to a sphere

#11445  Postby Florian » Mar 19, 2017 9:51 pm

ginckgo wrote:
LucidFlight wrote:Hello, I was just reading about Zealandia and was wondering if it is of any value to Expanding Earth theory.
http://www.geosociety.org/gsatoday/arch ... 321A.1.htm


Good question. It is a section of the Australian continent that started rifting away in the late Cretaceous, by then ceased drifting apart around 60Ma.

In the EE world view, why did it stop rifting? If surface area is ever increasing, why would any rift stop separating?


Because another Ridge eventually started to be active thus releasing the tension elsewhere. The Indian Ocean is full of these events which led to the successive separations of Madagascar, then the Mascarene plateau, then India as shown by the age of the ocean floor and retrofitting:

Indian-reconstruction.jpg
Indian-reconstruction.jpg (650.67 KiB) Viewed 559 times


So regional activity can eventually stop but globally, activity is steadily increasing.
In the field of observation, chance favors only the prepared mind. Louis Pasteur.
User avatar
Florian
 
Posts: 1543
Male

France (fr)
Print view this post

Re: Expanding earth. Do the continents wind back to a sphere

#11446  Postby ginckgo » Mar 20, 2017 5:42 am

Florian wrote:
ginckgo wrote:
LucidFlight wrote:Hello, I was just reading about Zealandia and was wondering if it is of any value to Expanding Earth theory.
http://www.geosociety.org/gsatoday/arch ... 321A.1.htm


Good question. It is a section of the Australian continent that started rifting away in the late Cretaceous, by then ceased drifting apart around 60Ma.

In the EE world view, why did it stop rifting? If surface area is ever increasing, why would any rift stop separating?


Because another Ridge eventually started to be active thus releasing the tension elsewhere. The Indian Ocean is full of these events which led to the successive separations of Madagascar, then the Mascarene plateau, then India as shown by the age of the ocean floor and retrofitting:

Indian-reconstruction.jpg


So regional activity can eventually stop but globally, activity is steadily increasing.


So someone has done some quantitative analyses of the tension changes and balances?
Cape illud, fracturor

Mystical explanations are thought to be deep; the truth is that they are not even shallow. Nietzsche
User avatar
ginckgo
 
Posts: 1058
Age: 45
Male

Australia (au)
Print view this post

Re: Expanding earth. Do the continents wind back to a sphere

#11447  Postby Florian » Mar 20, 2017 1:31 pm

ginckgo wrote:
Florian wrote:

Because another Ridge eventually started to be active thus releasing the tension elsewhere. The Indian Ocean is full of these events which led to the successive separations of Madagascar, then the Mascarene plateau, then India as shown by the age of the ocean floor and retrofitting:

Indian-reconstruction.jpg


So regional activity can eventually stop but globally, activity is steadily increasing.


So someone has done some quantitative analyses of the tension changes and balances?


Based on what data, the age of seafloor? It may be possible to make an inventory for each ridge in the form "this ridge was active from that date to that date and produced that surface of seafloor" and look for correlations between ridge extinction and ridge initiation.
In the field of observation, chance favors only the prepared mind. Louis Pasteur.
User avatar
Florian
 
Posts: 1543
Male

France (fr)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Expanding earth. Do the continents wind back to a sphere

#11448  Postby Sendraks » Mar 20, 2017 1:50 pm

Got any measurement data for the growth of the earth yet? :coffee:
"One of the great tragedies of mankind is that morality has been hijacked by religion." - Arthur C Clarke

"'Science doesn't know everything' - Well science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it'd stop" - Dara O'Brian
User avatar
Sendraks
 
Name: D-Money Jr
Posts: 13413
Age: 101
Male

Country: England
Print view this post

Re: Expanding earth. Do the continents wind back to a sphere

#11449  Postby ginckgo » Mar 20, 2017 11:26 pm

Florian wrote:
ginckgo wrote:
Florian wrote:

Because another Ridge eventually started to be active thus releasing the tension elsewhere. The Indian Ocean is full of these events which led to the successive separations of Madagascar, then the Mascarene plateau, then India as shown by the age of the ocean floor and retrofitting:

Indian-reconstruction.jpg


So regional activity can eventually stop but globally, activity is steadily increasing.


So someone has done some quantitative analyses of the tension changes and balances?


Based on what data, the age of seafloor? It may be possible to make an inventory for each ridge in the form "this ridge was active from that date to that date and produced that surface of seafloor" and look for correlations between ridge extinction and ridge initiation.


My point is basically: if the assertion that "another Ridge eventually started to be active thus releasing the tension elsewhere" is not tested quantitatively (multiple independent data sets, such as seafloor spreading rate history, tension/compression record, etc), then it is just barely a hypotheses, and cannot be used to dismiss my query
Cape illud, fracturor

Mystical explanations are thought to be deep; the truth is that they are not even shallow. Nietzsche
User avatar
ginckgo
 
Posts: 1058
Age: 45
Male

Australia (au)
Print view this post

Re: Expanding earth. Do the continents wind back to a sphere

#11450  Postby Florian » Mar 21, 2017 2:37 pm

ginckgo wrote:
My point is basically: if the assertion that "another Ridge eventually started to be active thus releasing the tension elsewhere" is not tested quantitatively (multiple independent data sets, such as seafloor spreading rate history, tension/compression record, etc), then it is just barely a hypotheses, and cannot be used to dismiss my query


If the rate of seafloor spreading is steadily increasing, but a ridge get extinct, it means that seafloor spreading increased elsewhere, either by an increase in rate of an existing ridge, or the formation of a new ridge. Agree?
In the field of observation, chance favors only the prepared mind. Louis Pasteur.
User avatar
Florian
 
Posts: 1543
Male

France (fr)
Print view this post

Re: Expanding earth. Do the continents wind back to a sphere

#11451  Postby lucek » Mar 22, 2017 11:49 am

Florian wrote:
ginckgo wrote:
My point is basically: if the assertion that "another Ridge eventually started to be active thus releasing the tension elsewhere" is not tested quantitatively (multiple independent data sets, such as seafloor spreading rate history, tension/compression record, etc), then it is just barely a hypotheses, and cannot be used to dismiss my query


If the rate of seafloor spreading is steadily increasing, but a ridge get extinct, it means that seafloor spreading increased elsewhere, either by an increase in rate of an existing ridge, or the formation of a new ridge. Agree?

Florian you do realize your answer is "It just did".

Perhaps you should look into the matter more, take some time to examine the problem you are answering, analyze the data, form an actual testable hypothesis and. . . but we all know that's not going to happen.
Next time a creationist says, "Were you there to watch the big bang", say "Yes we are".
"Nutrition is a balancing act during the day, not a one-shot deal from a single meal or food.":Sciwoman
User avatar
lucek
 
Posts: 3641

United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Expanding earth. Do the continents wind back to a sphere

#11452  Postby Florian » Mar 22, 2017 11:25 pm

lucek wrote:
Florian you do realize your answer is "It just did".


It is just maths.
In the field of observation, chance favors only the prepared mind. Louis Pasteur.
User avatar
Florian
 
Posts: 1543
Male

France (fr)
Print view this post

Re: Expanding earth. Do the continents wind back to a sphere

#11453  Postby Weaver » Mar 22, 2017 11:58 pm

Florian wrote:
lucek wrote:
Florian you do realize your answer is "It just did".


It is just maths.

Then show the maths.
Image
Retired AiF

Cogito, Ergo Armatus Sum.
User avatar
Weaver
RS Donator
 
Posts: 20123
Age: 49
Male

Country: USA
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Expanding earth. Do the continents wind back to a sphere

#11454  Postby lucek » Mar 23, 2017 1:34 am

Florian wrote:
lucek wrote:
Florian you do realize your answer is "It just did".


It is just maths.

You see florian math is this thing with numbers and variables and symbles that tell you what do with them. What you are doing is called wrighting in english.

Side note i know what you mean you're just wrong. Saying x exspantion happened and y is the amount at one place so x-y is what is left. That doesn't exsplain why that restates how. The why is from what you wrote is becase. . .
Next time a creationist says, "Were you there to watch the big bang", say "Yes we are".
"Nutrition is a balancing act during the day, not a one-shot deal from a single meal or food.":Sciwoman
User avatar
lucek
 
Posts: 3641

United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Expanding earth. Do the continents wind back to a sphere

#11455  Postby Just A Theory » Mar 27, 2017 6:03 am

It's been a while since I posted here but I do recall some discussion that got into the modelling of the Earth-Moon/(Sun) system and the length of the Earth day. The short story was that, if the model was true, then the Earth could not be expanding. Perhaps someone with better search-fu that I could find the posts. I found some of the discussion here.

Eventually the "discussion" degenerated into the expansionist stance that since the three-body problem was not solvable then the entire line of reasoning was spurious because we could not predict (for past or future) the positions and velocities of the Earth and Moon. Unfortunately, at the time, I did not have the knowledge to refute that position.

Now I do.

It is true that the three-body problem does not have an analytical solution. That is, there is no equation or set of equations that can be produced to accurately pinpoint the location of any of the objects at some arbitrary time in the future.

That does not mean that there is no solution!

There is, in fact, a numerical solution to the three-body problem with general solution characteristics as below:

    Use the position of the objects to calculate the forces on all three objects.
    With the net forces, find the new momentum of each object at the end of the time interval.
    Using the momentum, find the new position of the object at the end of the time interval.
    Update the time and repeat the process until you have reached the desired time period.

By using arbitrarily small time units, the forces are constant across the time unit and the above solution steps produce a time-step simulation of the three-body problem that can generate a solution.

Thus, we have the debunking:

    The Earth was rotating faster at some point in the past ie. the day was shorter
    The Moon was closer to Earth in the past but has receded and slowed the Earth's rotation
    Expansion models assume Earth's rotation is a constant speed
    The assumption is false, the expansion model is false
"He who begins by loving Christianity more than Truth, will proceed by loving his sect or church better than Christianity, and end in loving himself better than all."

Samuel Taylor Coleridge 1772-1834
Just A Theory
 
Posts: 1237
Male

Australia (au)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Expanding earth. Do the continents wind back to a sphere

#11456  Postby PleaseReadThis » Mar 28, 2017 5:46 pm

Where you are getting your assumptions from? As just one example that would invalidate your assumptions, if there were some sort of quantum mechanical accretion of mass from particles that came from all directions more or less equally, the Earth would necessarily spin slower as it grew due to the conservation of angular momentum.

Btw, why wouldn't there be quantum mechanical accretion of some fraction of particles that are wizzing by? Their wave functions get broader and broader the faster they go so there would be a non-zero probability of them being gravitationally captured at the center of mass of the Earth rather than even be detected at the surface where we would never even see them?
PleaseReadThis
 
Posts: 107

United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Expanding earth. Do the continents wind back to a sphere

#11457  Postby Just A Theory » Mar 29, 2017 3:16 am

PleaseReadThis wrote:Where you are getting your assumptions from? As just one example that would invalidate your assumptions, if there were some sort of quantum mechanical accretion of mass from particles that came from all directions more or less equally, the Earth would necessarily spin slower as it grew due to the conservation of angular momentum.


Translation: If there were some unsubstantiated, hand-wavy assertion that invalidated science as we know it, then an expanding Earth could exist.

Unfortunately for EE proponents, there are no quantum mechanical accretion effects possible at the energy levels found on, in and around Earth.

Btw, why wouldn't there be quantum mechanical accretion of some fraction of particles that are wizzing by? Their wave functions get broader and broader the faster they go so there would be a non-zero probability of them being gravitationally captured at the center of mass of the Earth rather than even be detected at the surface where we would never even see them?


Are you seriously asking me to demonstrate why your unsubstantiated hand-waving is wrong?

It's wrong because we have truly excellent models of quantum mechanical interactions for particles up to about 125 GeV which is the level of energy required to demonstrate the Higgs boson (that's the particle responsible for the mass of various gauge bosons). All interactions at energy states lower than that required to produce the Higgs boson have been produced, studied, catalogued and incorporated into the Standard Model.

This means that the only place for "quantum mechanical accretion" is at energy levels higher than that required to spontaneously produce Higgs bosons. Were such energies present in any significant amount on, in or around the Earth then we would have far more serious things to worry about than the mere expansion of our globe.

:coffee:
"He who begins by loving Christianity more than Truth, will proceed by loving his sect or church better than Christianity, and end in loving himself better than all."

Samuel Taylor Coleridge 1772-1834
Just A Theory
 
Posts: 1237
Male

Australia (au)
Print view this post

Re: Expanding earth. Do the continents wind back to a sphere

#11458  Postby PleaseReadThis » Mar 30, 2017 1:13 am

Here is a chart of the detectable flux of cosmic rays at various energies from the "cosmic ray" wiki page:
Image
By Sven Lafebre - own work, after Swordy.[1], CC BY-SA 3.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=1555202

Looks like there are all sorts of particles with more than 155 GeV. While this might not amount to enough to account for the mass needed, it shows qualitatively that the Earth is not a closed system and maybe we just haven't found all the contributors.
PleaseReadThis
 
Posts: 107

United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Expanding earth. Do the continents wind back to a sphere

#11459  Postby Weaver » Mar 30, 2017 2:03 am

That big fucking yellow ball in the daytime sky shows that the Earth isn't a closed system - but it doesn't mean you can wave you hands and claim it has anything at all to do with the Earth gaining any significant fraction of its mass in the last few hundred million years.
Image
Retired AiF

Cogito, Ergo Armatus Sum.
User avatar
Weaver
RS Donator
 
Posts: 20123
Age: 49
Male

Country: USA
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Expanding earth. Do the continents wind back to a sphere

#11460  Postby lucek » Mar 30, 2017 2:07 am

PleaseReadThis wrote:Here is a chart of the detectable flux of cosmic rays at various energies from the "cosmic ray" wiki page:
Image
By Sven Lafebre - own work, after Swordy.[1], CC BY-SA 3.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=1555202

Looks like there are all sorts of particles with more than 155 GeV. While this might not amount to enough to account for the mass needed, it shows qualitatively that the Earth is not a closed system and maybe we just haven't found all the contributors.

Less than 1 in a thousand. Also that is a chart of known cosmic ray reactions so it depicts detected reactions so ones that don't produce new unpredicted particles. That is either the majority of one part of the chart is missing and somehow it creates a smooth curve or a tiny or non existent amount are creating exotic non predicted particles. Not a big gap to hide in especially given the total flux is miniscule compared to the mass we are talking about.
Next time a creationist says, "Were you there to watch the big bang", say "Yes we are".
"Nutrition is a balancing act during the day, not a one-shot deal from a single meal or food.":Sciwoman
User avatar
lucek
 
Posts: 3641

United States (us)
Print view this post

PreviousNext

Return to Pseudoscience

Who is online

Users viewing this topic: No registered users and 1 guest