Holocaust deniers

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Re: Holocaust deniers

#61  Postby Regina » May 02, 2010 2:29 pm

Aurlito wrote:
Moridin wrote:
Aurlito wrote:I deeply feel indignation. first of all, in no way I was trolling, I was just participating in a thread about holocaust deniers, and as someone who deeply despises Palestinian genocides, that, is somehow predicated on holocaust, I shared my opinions with other users.
Secondly, I don't know why I'm a whisk away from one month suspension. I've done nothing wrong and have not received a single warning since my last suspension.
Thirdly, the things I said were neither racist or homophobic, nor bigotry. and they didn't need evidence because I wasn't denying holocaust. what I said, was that Holocaust is "refutable" because there has been, as many of you know, political advantages taken out of it, and we can assume that the evidence is made up for the advantage.
If you're provoked by the sentence in my signature, it's pretty obvious that it's for mockery.


Atheists have politically taken advantage of the establishment clause, therefore, according to your logic, the establishment clause is invalid? Pharmaceutical companies have gained from selling medicines (that work), therefore, modern medicine is invalid? Al Gore has gained from the science of climate change, therefore the science of climate change is invalid? Richard Dawkins has gained from selling books about evolution, therefore the evidence for evolution is invalid?

By the way, your strategy is classic passive aggressive; you first make ludicrously odd claims that the evidence for the Holocaust is invalid, they act all hurt and offended when someone calls you on the issue. As have been pointed our, your argument makes some form of the fallacy of irrelevance, perhaps an appeal to consequences.

You're obviously using conjunction fallacy. the things that you've listed have nothing to do with my claim, and are totally irrelevant with what I said. as I said, holocaust is "refutable" it means it has potential to be false because "supposedly" the evidence has been planted "for" political advantage "because" most of the evidence has been revealed "after" the start of Jewish settlement. I hope I made myself clear. we have no visual evidence from holocaust, that isn't hazy and improbable. and all the evidence regarding to the holocaust has been revealed way after it happened.

Strange as it may seem to you, there are still people around who witnessed the Holocaust! And before you tell me they're all Jews spinning a story,-------------no they aren't all.
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Re: Holocaust deniers

#62  Postby Aurlito » May 02, 2010 2:31 pm

Moridin wrote:The demographics is clear: All those people who the deniers claim survived the Holocaust are missing. Where are they?

So who are the current people living in Israel? newly converted Jews?
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Re: Holocaust deniers

#63  Postby Gawdzilla » May 02, 2010 2:35 pm

Aurlito wrote:So maybe the pictures are from their dead bodies?

Which was helped on by a 500 calorie a day diet, lack of medical supplies, etc.

They were suffering enough. so why would they kill them?

FFS, the goal was to kill them, by any means necessary. [/clue]
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Re: Holocaust deniers

#64  Postby Gawdzilla » May 02, 2010 2:37 pm

Aurlito wrote:
Moridin wrote:The demographics is clear: All those people who the deniers claim survived the Holocaust are missing. Where are they?

So who are the current people living in Israel? newly converted Jews?

Duh. Not all the Jews in Israel came from Europe. A lot of them came from Russia BEFORE WWII. The Balfour Declaration encouraged Zionism. You can even find Jews from Ethiopia there.
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Re: Holocaust deniers

#65  Postby stijndeloose » May 02, 2010 2:38 pm

Aurlito wrote:
Moridin wrote:The demographics is clear: All those people who the deniers claim survived the Holocaust are missing. Where are they?

So who are the current people living in Israel? newly converted Jews?


What Gawdzi said.

Also, I figure there are some Jews that were born after 1945.
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Re: Holocaust deniers

#66  Postby Gawdzilla » May 02, 2010 2:39 pm

stijndeloose wrote:
Aurlito wrote:
Moridin wrote:The demographics is clear: All those people who the deniers claim survived the Holocaust are missing. Where are they?

So who are the current people living in Israel? newly converted Jews?


I figure there are some Jews that were born after 1945.

This one's not very good. Can we have a better one? Somebody invite Wolfie or David from sketpic.com, perhaps?
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Re: Holocaust deniers

#67  Postby Moridin » May 02, 2010 2:39 pm

Aurlito wrote:So maybe the pictures are from their dead bodies?

Which was helped on by a 500 calorie a day diet, lack of medical supplies, etc.

They were suffering enough. so why would they kill them?


Because the Nazis hated the Jews and viewed them as vermin. What do you do with a sick black rat who you think is spreading the plague? You kill it without caring about how the rat is suffering. You have no idea how bad the antisemitism in Europe was. There is also an independent convergence of evidence for the genocide, so it was not merely death due to diseases as many Holocaust deniers like to assert.

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before in the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice.... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.... When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom to-day this poor people is plundered and exploited."

-Adolf Hitler, in his speech in Munich on 12 April 1922

Official Nazi documents: Orders for large quantities of Zyklon-B (the trade name of hydrocyanic acid gas), blueprints for gas chambers and crematoria, and orders for building materials for gas chambers and crematoria).
Eyewitness testimony: Survivor accounts, Jewish Sonderkommando diaries, and confessions of guards and commadants all tell of has chambers and crematoria being used for mass murder.
Photographs: Photographs not only of the camps but also secret photographs of the burning of bodies at Auschwitz and Allied aerial reconnaissance photographs of prisoners being marched to the has chambers at Auschwitz-Birkenau.
The camps themselves: Building and artifacts at the camps and the results of modern forensic tests that point to the use of both gas chambers and crematoria for killing large numbers of people.
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Re: Holocaust deniers

#68  Postby Aurlito » May 02, 2010 2:41 pm

stijndeloose wrote:
Aurlito wrote:
Moridin wrote:The demographics is clear: All those people who the deniers claim survived the Holocaust are missing. Where are they?

So who are the current people living in Israel? newly converted Jews?


What Gawdzi said.

Also, I figure there are some Jews that were born after 1945.

But the settlement started in late 60s. so a bunch of people in their early 20s were the first population of Israel?
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Re: Holocaust deniers

#69  Postby Moridin » May 02, 2010 2:42 pm

For those that deny the Holocaust in this thread: what would convince you that you where wrong and that the Holocaust actually happened? What evidence would be sufficient for you to admit that you where wrong?
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Re: Holocaust deniers

#70  Postby Agrippina » May 02, 2010 2:42 pm

Gawdzilla wrote:
stijndeloose wrote:
Aurlito wrote:
Moridin wrote:The demographics is clear: All those people who the deniers claim survived the Holocaust are missing. Where are they?

So who are the current people living in Israel? newly converted Jews?


I figure there are some Jews that were born after 1945.

This one's not very good. Can we have a better one? Somebody invite Wolfie or David from sketpic.com, perhaps?

There were millions living out of Europe.

America, England, South Africa, Australia all had enormous Jewish populations. Them and their families have settled there. If my dad had had his own way, I would've lived there too. Luckily my mother didn't want to go.
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Re: Holocaust deniers

#71  Postby Gawdzilla » May 02, 2010 2:43 pm

Aurlito wrote:But the settlement started in late 60s. so a bunch of people in their early 20s were the first population of Israel?

Wrong again. Google "Jewish immigration to Israel" for a clue.
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Re: Holocaust deniers

#72  Postby Moridin » May 02, 2010 2:44 pm

Aurlito wrote:But the settlement started in late 60s. so a bunch of people in their early 20s were the first population of Israel?


The demographics data is a result of censuses done before and after the Holocaust. How many people living in Israel today is irrelevant and furthermore, Israel was first established as a state long after the Holocaust happened.
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Re: Holocaust deniers

#73  Postby Regina » May 02, 2010 2:44 pm

Aurlito wrote:
stijndeloose wrote:
Aurlito wrote:
Moridin wrote:The demographics is clear: All those people who the deniers claim survived the Holocaust are missing. Where are they?

So who are the current people living in Israel? newly converted Jews?


What Gawdzi said.

Also, I figure there are some Jews that were born after 1945.

But the settlement started in late 60s. so a bunch of people in their early 20s were the first population of Israel?

Hello?? Can't you just do everyone a favour and check the BASICS??
No, they ain't makin' Jews like Jesus anymore,
They don't turn the other cheek the way they done before.

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Re: Holocaust deniers

#74  Postby Moridin » May 02, 2010 2:47 pm

Agrippina wrote:America, England, South Africa, Australia all had enormous Jewish populations. Them and their families have settled there. If my dad had had his own way, I would've lived there too. Luckily my mother didn't want to go.


How do you know? The idea that million of Jews were to suddenly appear in America or Australia out of the blue is so unlikely as to be nonsensical. Very rarely does Holocaust survivors turn up randomly like this.
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Re: Holocaust deniers

#75  Postby Agrippina » May 02, 2010 2:47 pm

Here you go, 2006 Jewish population of the world:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/jewpop.html

Here's some historical data: http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/givennames/dbdespop.htm
Regina wrote:
Aurlito wrote:
stijndeloose wrote:
Aurlito wrote:
Moridin wrote:The demographics is clear: All those people who the deniers claim survived the Holocaust are missing. Where are they?

So who are the current people living in Israel? newly converted Jews?


What Gawdzi said.

Also, I figure there are some Jews that were born after 1945.

But the settlement started in late 60s. so a bunch of people in their early 20s were the first population of Israel?

Hello?? Can't you just do everyone a favour and check the BASICS??


There were Jews living in Israel before the War too. When they were kicked out of Eastern Europe, some settled in Israel.
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Re: Holocaust deniers

#76  Postby Gawdzilla » May 02, 2010 2:50 pm

Regina wrote:
Aurlito wrote:
stijndeloose wrote:
Aurlito wrote:
Moridin wrote:The demographics is clear: All those people who the deniers claim survived the Holocaust are missing. Where are they?

So who are the current people living in Israel? newly converted Jews?


What Gawdzi said.

Also, I figure there are some Jews that were born after 1945.

But the settlement started in late 60s. so a bunch of people in their early 20s were the first population of Israel?

Hello?? Can't you just do everyone a favour and check the BASICS??

Image
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Re: Holocaust deniers

#77  Postby Agrippina » May 02, 2010 2:50 pm

Moridin wrote:
Agrippina wrote:America, England, South Africa, Australia all had enormous Jewish populations. Them and their families have settled there. If my dad had had his own way, I would've lived there too. Luckily my mother didn't want to go.


How do you know? The idea that million of Jews were to suddenly appear in America or Australia out of the blue is so unlikely as to be nonsensical. Very rarely does Holocaust survivors turn up randomly like this.


When the Jews were kicked out of Europe in the pogroms of the late 19th century, they emigrated to the rest of the world, Europe, which is where a lot of the them settled and were later victimized by the Nazis, England, America, South Africa and Australia. My own and my children's ancestors came from Germany (1700s) and Poland (1800s).
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Re: Holocaust deniers

#78  Postby Moridin » May 02, 2010 2:50 pm

From the link you gave:

1800 1840 1880 1900 1914 1938 1948
Europe (Incl. Russia) 1,500 3,950 6,858 8,900 9,100 9,500 3,700
Asia - 300 370 510 500 1,000 1,300
Africa, Middle East 1,000 198 250 375 400 600 700
North & South America - 50 250 1,200 3,500 5,500 5,800
Australia - 2 10 15 - - -
TOTAL 2,500 4,500 7,738 11,000 13,500 16,600 11,500

Table 1. World Jewish Population (thousands)


Do you notice the fall in world population of Jews between 1938 and 1948? Why do you think that is? If the Holocaust did not occur, where did they all go?
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Re: Holocaust deniers

#79  Postby Moridin » May 02, 2010 2:52 pm

Agrippina wrote:When the Jews were kicked out of Europe in the pogroms of the late 19th century, they emigrated to the rest of the world, Europe, which is where a lot of the them settled and were later victimized by the Nazis, England, America, South Africa and Australia. My own and my children's ancestors came from Germany (1700s) and Poland (1800s).


But this emigration happened long before the Holocaust, so you cannot use it to claim that the Jews that died in the Holocaust secretly fled to these places, especially as the population demographics you post yourself contradict that position.
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Re: Holocaust deniers

#80  Postby Aurlito » May 02, 2010 2:53 pm

When did the "real" settlement start?
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