Hypnosis real or fake

What aspects of hypnosis are real?

Anything that doesn't fit anywhere else below.

Moderators: kiore, The_Metatron, Blip

Re: Hypnosis real or fake

#81  Postby THWOTH » Jan 09, 2014 1:54 am

FBM wrote:I find it interesting that nobody knows how general anesthetics work. As for me, I find the experience very interesting. I look forward to having general anesthesia. It's a chance to witness the elimination and restarting of consciousness.

I know what you mean. That dissolving of consciousness is a very curious experience. Kind of like a little death, under strict and clinical observation of course.
"No-one is exempt from speaking nonsense – the only misfortune is to do it solemnly."
Michel de Montaigne, Essais, 1580
User avatar
THWOTH
RS Donator
 
Name: Penrose
Posts: 37116
Age: 56

Country: Untied Kingdom
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Hypnosis real or fake

#82  Postby DarthHelmet86 » Jan 09, 2014 2:02 am

THWOTH wrote:
FBM wrote:I find it interesting that nobody knows how general anesthetics work. As for me, I find the experience very interesting. I look forward to having general anesthesia. It's a chance to witness the elimination and restarting of consciousness.

I know what you mean. That dissolving of consciousness is a very curious experience. Kind of like a little death, under strict and clinical observation of course.


I don't know about this, I have been under general and to me it didn't feel like anything. I was given a needle to help start me on the way and that just made me tired, something I experience all the time anyway, then when in the operating room I was told to count back from 100 while taking deep breaths...I got to 98 and the next thing I knew I was waking up in the ICU two and a half hours later. Up until I passed out I felt no dissolving of my consciousness, I was alert though sleepy and have a good memory of what was going on around me. I was more out of it when I was admitted to the hospital due to the concussion I was suffering.
I. This is Not a Game
II. Here and Now, You are Alive
User avatar
DarthHelmet86
RS Donator
 
Posts: 10344
Age: 35
Male

Country: Australia
Australia (au)
Print view this post

Re: Hypnosis real or fake

#83  Postby FBM » Jan 09, 2014 2:40 am

The first time I was put under I also didn't experience consciousness winking out. However, I've been put under general quite a few times, and I started focusing on those last few moments before nothingness, and then again on the first few moments of 'coming back.' There's not much to be said about it, I guess. The absolute nothingness between seems to me to be most likely what it's like to be dead. Not that it's like anything.
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken
User avatar
FBM
 
Posts: 715

Korea, Republic of (kr)
Print view this post

Re: Hypnosis real or fake

#84  Postby THWOTH » Jan 09, 2014 2:50 am

You didn't see angels then, or watch the operation from the ceiling or anything? :mrgreen:

I've had a fair few generals now and it seems to me that a dark fog falls across one's vision, and as thought processes start to slow down and break up a deep cold sets in. It all happens very quickly though.
"No-one is exempt from speaking nonsense – the only misfortune is to do it solemnly."
Michel de Montaigne, Essais, 1580
User avatar
THWOTH
RS Donator
 
Name: Penrose
Posts: 37116
Age: 56

Country: Untied Kingdom
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Hypnosis real or fake

#85  Postby FBM » Jan 09, 2014 3:00 am

THWOTH wrote:You didn't see angels then, or watch the operation from the ceiling or anything? :mrgreen:

I've had a fair few generals now and it seems to me that a dark fog falls across one's vision, and as thought processes start to slow down and break up a deep cold sets in. It all happens very quickly though.


(I can count 7 times I've been put under, but I may be skipping something.) No celestial choirs or out-of-body experiences, sorry. ;) It does happen very quickly, dunnit? The last time (last year) I was able to feel everything shutting down for a brief moment because I didn't bother doing the backward counting thing. I just said 'bye-bye' to the staff and they laughed. That gave me a little window to feel it happening in.

But I think we're derailing a discussion about hypnosis. :shifty:
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken
User avatar
FBM
 
Posts: 715

Korea, Republic of (kr)
Print view this post

Re: Hypnosis real or fake

#86  Postby THWOTH » Jan 09, 2014 3:01 am

Oops, your right. Back to the topic. ;)
"No-one is exempt from speaking nonsense – the only misfortune is to do it solemnly."
Michel de Montaigne, Essais, 1580
User avatar
THWOTH
RS Donator
 
Name: Penrose
Posts: 37116
Age: 56

Country: Untied Kingdom
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Hypnosis real or fake

#87  Postby quas » Jan 15, 2014 8:21 am

GenesForLife wrote:http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/hypnotist-puts-himself-trance-surgeon-2232873

Looks like there have been recent recorded incidents of people having major surgery without general anaesthetic.


Just because he doesn't get general anesthetic, doesn't mean he doesn't get local anesthetic.

Possible explanations (some taken from Derren Brown's Trick of The Mind) : a) these procedures usually use local anesthetic and since all/most of the nerve endings is on the skin, there is not much pain to be felt. b) pain seems to be amplified by anticipating it, so having the right mindset (calm or distracted, probably) minimizes (or at least doesn't worsen) pain. Sometimes, it's possible to not feel zero pain. There are reports of painless (or even orgasmic) childbirths. I have experienced the occasional painless injections, even as I felt the needle going inside me. Once, I cut myself requiring several stitches. I only know that I cut myself after people pointed out I was bleeding. c) people who refuse local anesthetic usually have a high tolerance for pain anyway. Even this patient admits it, "I'm not averse to anaesthetic - it's just that my pain control is a hell of a lot better than the medical profession's..."

In the end, you have to wonder: What does it mean to be in "a trance"? How is that any difference from normal waking states? If it is possible to feel little to no pain without having to be in "a trance", why is hypnotism even necessary? Derren Brown himself isn't sure how trance works or that it even exists in the first place, even though like most entertainer hypnotists he sure knows how to monetize this.
The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem
those who think alike than those who think differently. -Nietzsche
User avatar
quas
 
Posts: 2863

Print view this post

Re: Hypnosis real or fake

#88  Postby ScientificSkeptic » Feb 15, 2014 10:44 am

"What aspects of hypnosis are real?" None.
User avatar
ScientificSkeptic
Banned Troll
 
Posts: 438

Country: USA
United States (us)
Print view this post


Re: Hypnosis real or fake

#90  Postby rejoin11 » Nov 02, 2020 2:45 am

Thank you so much for this forum. It helps a lot to see people trying to deal with this in a scientific manner.
I think the key point came right at the start: Hypnosis is similar to the placebo effect in effectiveness. Its pretty much nothing -> but the power of suggestion. Unfortunately that doesn't mean it is ineffective. On issues that really do depend on cognition it is as effective as the subject believes it to be. Meaning it is in it's effectiveness almost indistinguishable from regular suggestion or a wich-doctor ceremony. It's not gonna make you grow hair when your bold, but it may very well manage to make you feel like it's growing back, and see more hair where there is less, if you believe it works.

https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... _treatment

As a subject to hypnosis I can tell you this much: Hypnotic suggestion can really make you FEEL like your gonna do something and give you a rather strong push, wich can even feel threatening. But I would say any repetitive suggestion applied in an intrusive manner "You are gonna do that! You can't help it! Bla!" has similar effects.

Other than that it is entirely possible to get into a state where critical faculties are slow or even close to shut down - that doesn't require hypnosis. But it can likely help. Suggestions might confuse and get the mind tired or lazy.
Doesn't mean a person will be zombie-like helpless, doesn't mean a person will stop smoking. But in the heat of a moment one might do things will be regretted later. Often things that are actually regular sales tactics, abusing cognitive biases, are sold as hypnosis. Words can frame and suggest.
rejoin11
 
Name: Kai
Posts: 3

Country: Krahver
Germany (de)
Print view this post

Re: Hypnosis real or fake

#91  Postby JustStarDust » Nov 14, 2020 5:03 pm

prometheys wrote:This may be of some interest

http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/2000/08 ... nosis.html


Dead link :(

Everyone is different, so the process might have to be different for everyone.
Self practice, record the results, but be careful.
Avoid nasty drugs.
User avatar
JustStarDust
 
Name: NotTellingYouThatSorry
Posts: 268

Country: NotTellingYouThatSorry
Marshall Island (mh)
Print view this post

Previous

Return to General Debunking

Who is online

Users viewing this topic: No registered users and 1 guest