"I am you" nonsense

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Re: "I am you" nonsense

#1981  Postby Fallible » Jan 04, 2019 9:51 pm

You start with the assumption that he was posting in good faith.
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Re: "I am you" nonsense

#1982  Postby Destroyer » Jan 04, 2019 9:55 pm

Fallible wrote:You start with the assumption that he was posting in good faith.

Yes, but the moment he oversteps by making unsubstantiated claims about facts, that's when moderation ought to put him in his place.
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Re: "I am you" nonsense

#1983  Postby Fallible » Jan 04, 2019 9:58 pm

He'd already overstepped in two different ways. He was put in his place. He just went on with something else.
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She revelled in adventure and imagination.
She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
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Re: "I am you" nonsense

#1984  Postby theropod » Jan 04, 2019 11:41 pm

Fallible wrote:
Destroyer wrote:
felltoearth wrote:
Destroyer wrote:

I will leave it up to the members and lurkers with integrity to determine whether or not Kafei's posts contained rational content... The biased view here seems to be that because he presented nothing that resembled scientific evidence, his persistence that the research supported his claims, was indeed Trolling... I, however, say that his persistence was indicative of a man with conviction.


Excellent well poisoning there and an interesting comment when kefai demonstrated little to no integrity in this thread whatsoever. Whether he believed the crap he was selling here or not is beside the point. He consistently misrepresented the science and the evidence he presented here, even after being corrected over and over again.* It doesn’t matter whether dishonesty in discussion here is to the membership or to oneself, it amounts to the same outcome – a thread of thousands of posts that obfuscates facts and goes nowhere. That’s not why this discussion board exists.

It is for that very reason that I reported him calling for him to be banned which thankfully produced the desired result.

*additionally, spamming these threads with the same lengthy Youtube videos over and over again, not citing, quoting, or even paraphrasing the content with time stamps. There should be a rule about Youtube spamming as evidential support in the FUA but that’s for another discussion.


This will be my final post in this thread.

There may well be justifiable grounds for not accepting Kafei's defence of his argument as containing evidential scientific support - as he himself kept insisting. As for obfuscating facts, that is the opinion of Kafei's opponents in this debate, and therefore of no interest to me unless presented with unbiased evidential support... Obviously, the man was repetitive: he had numerous opponents and refused to surrender.

However, his fundamental claim, that a certain dose of this particular drug induced mystical experiences has only been seriously challenged by a handful who claim to have taken that amount themselves without experiencing the mystical. So, when all is said and done, it is just their word against Kafei's claims. That is the sum total of this whole debate irrespective of all else that has gone on here.


lol


I just noticed the red highlighted text above.
If that snide little comment was directed at me, which upon careful reading it sure appears that way to me, all I can say is oh well.

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Re: "I am you" nonsense

#1985  Postby Fenrir » Jan 05, 2019 1:16 am

I look forward to not bothering to peruse the forum Destroyer sets up which impliments their omniscient moderation methodology and avoids all ambiguity no matter how confected and is so much betterer.

Hop to it.
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Re: "I am you" nonsense

#1986  Postby Cito di Pense » Jan 05, 2019 1:28 pm

Destroyer wrote:
Fallible wrote:Why do you say he needed to be?


To put him on guard as to what will and will not be tolerated on the forum.


It's not possible to spell out the difference between what you call "posting with conviction" and simply "posting the same stuff over and over (and over) again". It's also not possible to specify that such behavior is to be tolerated when a person has insufficient control over his or her behavior in public, since we can't diagnose it. Got any other hair-splitting (in)distinctions you'd like to see spelled out in glorious detail?

Destroyer wrote:
Fallible wrote:You start with the assumption that he was posting in good faith.

Yes, but the moment he oversteps by making unsubstantiated claims about facts, that's when moderation ought to put him in his place.


Making claims unsubstantiated by facts or persistent misunderstandings about what is a fact (hint, hint!) are not against any rules here. The membership is on hand to try to correct misunderstandings about facts, but it's not always possible to do so. That's why it's not against the rules to post unsubstantiated claims. Doing it repetitively about the same issue is not caused by misunderstanding, but by demanding agreement as to what the facts are. It's also not anyone's job (including that of moderation) here to deal responsibly or professionally with learning disabilities, should that be at issue.

Destroyer wrote:He needed to be officially warned but clearly was not


About what the fuck, exactly?
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Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
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Re: "I am you" nonsense

#1987  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Jan 07, 2019 7:56 am

Jimmy/Kafei tried his bullshitting again at the AXP yesterday:

Starts from 18:20
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: "I am you" nonsense

#1988  Postby zulumoose » Jan 07, 2019 8:20 am

Oh boy..

Within 2 minutes they are frustrated with him, and 3 minutes later you can see why Matt has no hair left, and his co-host is probably going to lose what he has left. Not unlike our experience in this thread.
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Re: "I am you" nonsense

#1989  Postby Fallible » Jan 07, 2019 8:27 am

Wow...why on earth does he keep banging on with this stuff? He can't even deal with the first issue about the definition of 'mystical experience'.
She battled through in every kind of tribulation,
She revelled in adventure and imagination.
She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
Oh, my my! Oh my, she flies!
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Re: "I am you" nonsense

#1990  Postby GrahamH » Jan 07, 2019 8:44 am

Fallible wrote:Wow...why on earth does he keep banging on with this stuff? He can't even deal with the first issue about the definition of 'mystical experience'.


It's like he's obsessed, isn't it?
Why do you think that?
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Re: "I am you" nonsense

#1991  Postby Fallible » Jan 07, 2019 9:01 am

Ahahahaha, he's disproving his own argument! I revise my view of him. He's just an idiot.
She battled through in every kind of tribulation,
She revelled in adventure and imagination.
She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
Oh, my my! Oh my, she flies!
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Re: "I am you" nonsense

#1992  Postby GrahamH » Jan 07, 2019 9:13 am

Thomas Eshuis wrote:Jimmy/Kafei tried his bullshitting again at the AXP yesterday:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThE8R0qJAws
Starts from 18:20


DIllahunty was on form there. I almost felt sorry for Jimmy. I hope he listened to all that Matt said about epistemology. It's something Jimmy badly needs to understand.
Last edited by GrahamH on Jan 07, 2019 11:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "I am you" nonsense

#1993  Postby newolder » Jan 07, 2019 9:28 am

Jimmy walks into a newsagent at 0700. What does he ask for and at what time does he leave? Answers on a ream of A0.
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Re: "I am you" nonsense

#1994  Postby Thommo » Jan 07, 2019 10:32 am

It's so hard to listen to him. Genuinely worse in speech than in text.

Nope, I can't take it. I managed about 4 minutes. That's my lot.
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Re: "I am you" nonsense

#1995  Postby GrahamH » Jan 07, 2019 11:07 am

Thommo wrote:It's so hard to listen to him. Genuinely worse in speech than in text.

Nope, I can't take it. I managed about 4 minutes. That's my lot.


Rest assured that you didn't miss anything. He is going through the exact same shit as he tried before with AXP and trolled us here with. How many times has he completely ignored all these criticisms?
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Re: "I am you" nonsense

#1996  Postby Cito di Pense » Jan 07, 2019 11:17 am

Thomas Eshuis wrote:Jimmy/Kafei tried his bullshitting again at the AXP yesterday:


Thanks so much for posting this. It shows in excruciating detail that Jimmy/Kafei (has decided he) has something to say, and you'd better not get in his way while he's saying it. That's why the text box works so much better for him than the call-in show.

Dillahunty makes many relevant observations while he's fighting off Jimmy's/Kafei's narrative. Dillahunty notes that concepts of 'religious experience', or 'mystical experience' or 'experience of the supernatural' are borrowed from the past, as surely as the words themselves are borrowed from the past. Dillahunty notes that people have experiences and then use common words to communicate, but fail to recognize that they have no idea to what extent anyone else ever had a similar experience, let alone an identical one. We take for granted that 'identical experience' is a contradiction in terms.

Jimmy/Kafei has concluded that there is, in fact, a common experience (the "complete mystical" one, of which there is only one, as a 'feature of consciousness itself", and what is really sad is that he can't articulate why that's important to him. Lots of folks are frustrated when they recognize that nobody else has exactly their experiences. Share and enjoy!
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Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
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Re: "I am you" nonsense

#1997  Postby felltoearth » Jan 07, 2019 1:14 pm

“Hey jackass... OK you’re gone.”

:rofl:

That this guy was entertained here for almost 100 pages is pretty much proof to me that we are a very tolerant lot.

Also, Jimmy’s voice is pretty much how I imagined it reading his posts. You can actually imagine the basement of his mom’s house that he’s calling from.
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Re: "I am you" nonsense

#1998  Postby aban57 » Jan 07, 2019 2:07 pm

Kafei is right now in the comments telling his bullshit again :)
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Re: "I am you" nonsense

#1999  Postby Destroyer » Jan 09, 2019 8:11 pm

Cito di Pense wrote:
Destroyer wrote:
Fallible wrote:Why do you say he needed to be?


To put him on guard as to what will and will not be tolerated on the forum.


It's not possible to spell out the difference between what you call "posting with conviction" and simply "posting the same stuff over and over (and over) again". It's also not possible to specify that such behavior is to be tolerated when a person has insufficient control over his or her behavior in public, since we can't diagnose it. Got any other hair-splitting (in)distinctions you'd like to see spelled out in glorious detail?

Destroyer wrote:
Fallible wrote:You start with the assumption that he was posting in good faith.

Yes, but the moment he oversteps by making unsubstantiated claims about facts, that's when moderation ought to put him in his place.


Making claims unsubstantiated by facts or persistent misunderstandings about what is a fact (hint, hint!) are not against any rules here. The membership is on hand to try to correct misunderstandings about facts, but it's not always possible to do so. That's why it's not against the rules to post unsubstantiated claims. Doing it repetitively about the same issue is not caused by misunderstanding, but by demanding agreement as to what the facts are. It's also not anyone's job (including that of moderation) here to deal responsibly or professionally with learning disabilities, should that be at issue.

Destroyer wrote:He needed to be officially warned but clearly was not


About what the fuck, exactly?


I had actually finished with this thread, and haven't visited for days; but coming back and observing such lack of depth in this post, I will respond.

I thought I made it clear that I was talking about established scientific data: i.e. making claims about facts; not just making unsubstantiated claims. When someone makes repeated false claims about information that can actually be analysed and put to the test, that is when they need to be put in their place. Not just for making unsubstantiated claims... The moment that Kafei made repeated claims about the research which were not in accord with the research, that is when he needed to be warned.
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Re: "I am you" nonsense

#2000  Postby Cito di Pense » Jan 09, 2019 8:32 pm

Destroyer wrote:The moment that Kafei made repeated claims about the research which were not in accord with the research, that is when he needed to be warned.


What moment was that? First of all, there was no research that Kafei was citing; all his arguments came from mouthpieces in youtube videos. Are you suggesting posters be warned when somebody complains that their ideas are not in accord with some other ideas? Kafei's not a blank slate. He's been kicked off other forums, and has had talk show hosts hang up on him.

It seems your idea of forum moderation is that it is acting in loco parentis and it also seems you think moderation is performing a designated task on your behalf. If you don't mind my saying so, both you and Kafei seem to have a similar problem with taking "No" for an answer as to whether anyone takes your opinion seriously.
Хлопнут без некролога. -- Серге́й Па́влович Королёв

Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
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