I know why life exists

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Re: I know why life exists

#21  Postby CdesignProponentsist » Jul 05, 2014 10:33 pm

Cosmobrain wrote:I want someone to debunk this logic: Life (conscious life, actually) exists because it has to, for the simple reason that if there was no conscious being, there would be no one to say that life does not exist.


You're putting your effect before your cause.

Knowing life exists is not a requirement for life, but life is a requirement for knowing life exists. You are simply flipping the cause and effect, which doesn't work.
Last edited by CdesignProponentsist on Jul 05, 2014 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I know why life exists

#22  Postby epepke » Jul 05, 2014 10:53 pm

Cosmobrain wrote:I want someone to debunk this logic: Life (conscious life, actually) exists because it has to, for the simple reason that if there was no conscious being, there would be no one to say that life does not exist.

The same can be applied to the Universe. "Why is there something rather than nothing?" Because it is obligatory for something to exist, because if nothing existed, there would be no one aware that could say that the universe did not exist. (I just want to make clear that it is possible for the universe to exist without life. The thing is that if there is life, you first need an universe).

I personally think this is irrefutable.

(oh, last note: I am NOT trying to explain what makes consciousness possible. I could tell you it is because of chemical reactions in the brain etc. The point of this topic is to say that, one way or the other, consciousness has to exist. Debunk me)


I think it's fantastic, as philosophy goes. It's totally circular, but then again, all answers at that level are circular.

It's an example of what I used to call "limited universe reasoning." There are various forms of this, such as begging the question, affirming the consequent, and the anthropic principle. It's actually quite a lot more useful than many people will admit to.

Of course, it tells you nothing about, if you rolled 100 universes, how many of them would produce consciousness or intelligence or whatever. Fortunately, though, we only have one example of a universe. We can't roll universes, and even if we did, rotsa ruck getting funding for a few billion years.

The only problem is that everyone who isn't a philosopher, drunk, or pithed is going to think it's complete bollocks. But you should be able to find enough people who will nod seriously. However, you won't make much money off of it. The reason is simple. If your reasoning is sound, then anything you could possible say in your book is also inevitable, so why buy the book?

Descartes "cogigo" is essentially the same thing. That is, "I think, therefore I am." The weakness, of course, is on what basis can you say that there is an "I" that thinks? You just made that up and put it in a sentence so that you could conclude what you put in. And even if you put together a bunch of arguments for what an "I" is, they're all based on being in the first place, so you haven't shown anything.

A lot of people who otherwise appear intelligent and sane, some enough to operate a computer, are taken in by this one. Still, Descartes been there, done that. Still, especially if you're 14 or so, good job. Keep thinking. You can get better at it, but you still might not make any money.
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Re: I know why life exists

#23  Postby Spearthrower » Jul 06, 2014 1:08 pm

Cosmobrain wrote:I want someone to debunk this logic: Life (conscious life, actually) exists because it has to, for the simple reason that if there was no conscious being, there would be no one to say that life does not exist.

The same can be applied to the Universe. "Why is there something rather than nothing?" Because it is obligatory for something to exist, because if nothing existed, there would be no one aware that could say that the universe did not exist. (I just want to make clear that it is possible for the universe to exist without life. The thing is that if there is life, you first need an universe).

I personally think this is irrefutable.

(oh, last note: I am NOT trying to explain what makes consciousness possible. I could tell you it is because of chemical reactions in the brain etc. The point of this topic is to say that, one way or the other, consciousness has to exist. Debunk me)



It's really just a post-hoc assertion - a claim devoid of any explanatory or argumentative power, which mixes up causality with appearance. Stuff exists because it had to exist. If we extend that out, we find that everything had to exist. Strawberry jam had to exist. Slippers had to exist. Golf had to exist. To believe this requires the denial of contingency, and a faith in some kind of essential fate or pre-determination, neither of which are actually evidenced themselves other than by assertion. In effect, your argument is no different than in Voltaire's satire Candide:

It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end. Observe, for instance, the nose is formed for spectacles, therefore we wear spectacles.
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Re: I know why life exists

#24  Postby Rumraket » Jul 06, 2014 2:27 pm

The_Metatron wrote:Cows exist for the sole reason that people eat steak.

Aaand now I'm hungry! :/
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