Sara4321 wrote:

Greg the Grouper wrote:

Sara4321 wrote:

Greg the Grouper wrote:All I can really say in that regard is that greater than zero airflow isn't necessarily pleasant.

It's actually very common to have patients say that they can't breathe. Even though the ability to breathe is a prerequisite for talking.

I guess it's just that people generally talk in euphemistic language. We're not all that precise with what we say, nor do we really have to be in regular situations.

You think your nose is 100% blocked because it's hard and uncomfortable to breathe through your nose. You start breathing in and it feels like you're just putting pressure on a wall. We've all been there. That isn't to say that no air is actually passing through.

Well I just tested this and tried breathing through my nose and not my mouth.. I couldn't get any air in, felt like someone was pinching my nose shut. Started seeing stars and then I had to breathe through my mouth and I was gasping as if I was holding my breath. Decongestants clear it up but it doesn't last more than 1-2 hours before my nose clogs up again.

To be perfectly blunt, human sensory organs aren't the most precise instruments, amazing as they are. How do you know that you didn't simply fail to detect airflow?

Because I just tried to breathe through my blocked nose not my mouth and I started seeing stars and felt that sensation in my chest that I'm not getting air, similar to when you hold your breath.

Greg the Grouper wrote:

Sara4321 wrote:

Greg the Grouper wrote:

Sara4321 wrote:

Well I just tested this and tried breathing through my nose and not my mouth.. I couldn't get any air in, felt like someone was pinching my nose shut. Started seeing stars and then I had to breathe through my mouth and I was gasping as if I was holding my breath. Decongestants clear it up but it doesn't last more than 1-2 hours before my nose clogs up again.

To be perfectly blunt, human sensory organs aren't the most precise instruments, amazing as they are. How do you know that you didn't simply fail to detect airflow?

Because I just tried to breathe through my blocked nose not my mouth and I started seeing stars and felt that sensation in my chest that I'm not getting air, similar to when you hold your breath.

Yes, you just told me that. Then I asked you how you know that your body didn't simply fail to detect meager airflow. Is it not at all possible that you breathed in through your nose, got some airflow which your brain determined was insufficient for the purposes of respiration, and this translated into this idea that you're not getting any air?

In fact, are you sure you're seeing stars because of a lack of air? Or is the effort you're exerting to breathe causing abnormal pressure buildup in your sinuses that messed with your perceptions?

Spearthrower wrote:It's all irrelevant Sara.

When you fall asleep, even if you're congested and laying down makes it worse, you'll just breathe through your mouth without needing to be consciously aware.

Now, show that you're paying attention to what's being written and reply with what's different between that scenario and the one where the guy died.

If you can't engage with what people are writing, then it provokes the question as to why people should bother doing so in the first place.

Greg the Grouper wrote:Hey, I had asthma as a kid!

So again, is lack of air the result of little air, or no air?

Fenrir wrote:That's why most sleeping pills are highly regulated prescription medicines.

Excepting melatonin. Look up why.

Sara4321 wrote:

Greg the Grouper wrote:Hey, I had asthma as a kid!

So again, is lack of air the result of little air, or no air?

Both.

You can get no air and you can also have too little air.

Both things result in hypoxia and potentially death.

Greg the Grouper wrote:

Sara4321 wrote:

Greg the Grouper wrote:Hey, I had asthma as a kid!

So again, is lack of air the result of little air, or no air?

Both.

You can get no air and you can also have too little air.

Both things result in hypoxia and potentially death.

And for the purposes of this point, 'too little air' would mean that airflow is occurring through the mucus buildup in your nose.

Which I suppose brings us back to the matter of whether or not suffocating is more likely than simply breathing through your mouth.

I assume you're aware that, typically, you don't have to think about breathing in order to breathe?

Sara4321 wrote:

Greg the Grouper wrote:

Sara4321 wrote:

Greg the Grouper wrote:Hey, I had asthma as a kid!

So again, is lack of air the result of little air, or no air?

Both.

You can get no air and you can also have too little air.

Both things result in hypoxia and potentially death.

And for the purposes of this point, 'too little air' would mean that airflow is occurring through the mucus buildup in your nose.

Which I suppose brings us back to the matter of whether or not suffocating is more likely than simply breathing through your mouth.

I assume you're aware that, typically, you don't have to think about breathing in order to breathe?

By that logic asthma can't suffocate you since you can still get some air into your lungs.

Greg the Grouper wrote:

Sara4321 wrote:

Greg the Grouper wrote:

Sara4321 wrote:


Both.

You can get no air and you can also have too little air.

Both things result in hypoxia and potentially death.

And for the purposes of this point, 'too little air' would mean that airflow is occurring through the mucus buildup in your nose.

Which I suppose brings us back to the matter of whether or not suffocating is more likely than simply breathing through your mouth.

I assume you're aware that, typically, you don't have to think about breathing in order to breathe?

By that logic asthma can't suffocate you since you can still get some air into your lungs.

Well, no. Because, see, you'd just breathe through your mouth.

If it makes you feel better, my fiance works as a nurse, and she thinks this is all very silly.

If that doesn't make you feel better, we can go back to my previous question: are you aware of the fact that you don't typically need to focus on breathing in order to do so?

Sara4321 wrote:This has nothing to do with the fact that the reflex to breathe through your mouth during sleep when the nose is blocked does not happen during sleep.

The body will continue to try and breathe through the blocked nose instead, resulting in hypoxia and then death.

Sara4321 wrote:

Spearthrower wrote:It's all irrelevant Sara.

When you fall asleep, even if you're congested and laying down makes it worse, you'll just breathe through your mouth without needing to be consciously aware.

Now, show that you're paying attention to what's being written and reply with what's different between that scenario and the one where the guy died.

If you can't engage with what people are writing, then it provokes the question as to why people should bother doing so in the first place.

The guy took sleeping pills and shoved tampons up his nose. I know the difference, but my nose is fully blocked which would have the same effect as the tampons.

Sara4321 wrote:How do I know my nose is fully blocked? Because I get the effects of hypoxia when I try to breathe through my nose and not my mouth. I know the effects of hypoxia because I'm asthmatic and know how that feels. Getting some air but not enough air.

Sara4321 wrote:What would happen if I took sleeping pills to go to sleep with this cold?

Sara4321 wrote:
This has nothing to do with the fact that the reflex to breathe through your mouth during sleep when the nose is blocked does not happen during sleep.

The body will continue to try and breathe through the blocked nose instead, resulting in hypoxia and then death.

Greg the Grouper wrote:

Sara4321 wrote:This has nothing to do with the fact that the reflex to breathe through your mouth during sleep when the nose is blocked does not happen during sleep.

It unironically has everything to do with that. Your autonomic nervous system doesn't cease to function when you go to sleep.

The body will continue to try and breathe through the blocked nose instead, resulting in hypoxia and then death.

So are you of the impression that you're the only human being in recorded history to have a bad cold, or are you under the impression that every human in recorded history to have a bad cold either refused to sleep until it passed or suffocated overnight?

Sara4321 wrote:

Greg the Grouper wrote:

Sara4321 wrote:This has nothing to do with the fact that the reflex to breathe through your mouth during sleep when the nose is blocked does not happen during sleep.

It unironically has everything to do with that. Your autonomic nervous system doesn't cease to function when you go to sleep.

The body will continue to try and breathe through the blocked nose instead, resulting in hypoxia and then death.

So are you of the impression that you're the only human being in recorded history to have a bad cold, or are you under the impression that every human in recorded history to have a bad cold either refused to sleep until it passed or suffocated overnight?

I think everyone with a bad cold just stays awake, they don't go to sleep. I've never gone to sleep when I have a blocked nose from a cold, I always had this instinct that I'll die in my sleep otherwise.

'' Your autonomic nervous system doesn't cease to function when you go to sleep.''

Yes this is true. But opening your mouth and switching to mouth breathing is a more complex process than simply just breathing, I think you could agree. Babies for example can breathe just fine, but lack the reflex to switch to mouth breathing when they are awake. This reflex only appears a few months after birth. It's why a baby having nasal congestion can be fatal. They will just keep trying to breathe through their nose and they can die from suffocation. There's a condition where people are born without a nose, and they don't make it past infancy because of the same reason.

Sara4321 wrote:
This has nothing to do with the fact that the reflex to breathe through your mouth during sleep when the nose is blocked does not happen during sleep.

The body will continue to try and breathe through the blocked nose instead, resulting in hypoxia and then death.

Mouth breathing,“nasal disuse,” and pediatric sleep-disordered breathing

Adenotonsillectomy (T&A) may not completely eliminate sleep-disordered breathing (SDB), and residual SDB can result in progressive worsening of abnormal breathing during sleep. Persistence of mouth breathing post-T&As plays a role in progressive worsening through an increase of upper airway resistance during sleep with secondary impact on orofacial growth.



Breathing route during sleep

Nasal obstruction has been associated with apneic episodes during sleep. However, the normal distribution of nasal and oral air flow while asleep has not been investigated. To determine the normal route of ventilation during sleep, we studied 7 healthy men and 7 healthy women using a sealed face mask that mechanically separated nasal and oral air flow. Standard sleep staging techniques were employed. The subjects slept 297 ± 29 (SEM) min, with a mean of 197 ± 15 min of ventilation recorded. Ventilation was decreased during sleep as has been previously demonstrated. However, during sleep, we found that men breathed a greater percentage of total ventilation through the mouth (29.0 ± 8.2%) than did women (5.0 ± 1.0%, p > 0.02). The same trend applied during wakefulness but did not reach significance (p = 0.06). Although none was symptomatic, 4 subjects, all men, had more than 3 apneas per hour. These 4 men had a greater percentage of mouth ventilation (37.3 ± 19.0%) than did the other 10 subjects with few or no apneas (8.1 ± 2.7%, p > 0.02). It was also noted that increasing age in men was associated with an increasing percentage of mouth ventilation (r = 0.83 p > 0.03) but this relationship was not observed in women. We conclude that mouth breathing may be associated with apneas during sleep and that breathing through the mouth occurs commonly in men, particularly in those who are older. This suggests that nasal breathing may be important in the maintenance of ventilatory rhythmicity during sleep.


Rediscovering the importance of nasal breathing in sleep or, shut your mouth and save your sleep

Recent research, stimulated by the growing awareness of the sleep apnea syndrome, has shown that nasal breathing plays a major role in the regulation of respiration in sleep. These observations are not new; they confirm century-old clinical findings on the importance of nasal breathing in sleep. The earliest account of the deleterious effects of mouth breathing in sleep was made by Lemnious Levinus towards the end of the sixteenth century. Two hundred years later, Catlin dedicated an entire book to the superiority of nasal breathing over mouth breathing in sleep; and in the late 1800's, Cline, Wells, Griffin and others showed that obstructed nasal breathing causes sleep disorders.

Greg the Grouper wrote:

Sara4321 wrote:

Greg the Grouper wrote:

Sara4321 wrote:This has nothing to do with the fact that the reflex to breathe through your mouth during sleep when the nose is blocked does not happen during sleep.

It unironically has everything to do with that. Your autonomic nervous system doesn't cease to function when you go to sleep.

The body will continue to try and breathe through the blocked nose instead, resulting in hypoxia and then death.

So are you of the impression that you're the only human being in recorded history to have a bad cold, or are you under the impression that every human in recorded history to have a bad cold either refused to sleep until it passed or suffocated overnight?

I think everyone with a bad cold just stays awake, they don't go to sleep. I've never gone to sleep when I have a blocked nose from a cold, I always had this instinct that I'll die in my sleep otherwise.

'' Your autonomic nervous system doesn't cease to function when you go to sleep.''

Yes this is true. But opening your mouth and switching to mouth breathing is a more complex process than simply just breathing, I think you could agree. Babies for example can breathe just fine, but lack the reflex to switch to mouth breathing when they are awake. This reflex only appears a few months after birth. It's why a baby having nasal congestion can be fatal. They will just keep trying to breathe through their nose and they can die from suffocation. There's a condition where people are born without a nose, and they don't make it past infancy because of the same reason.

Not only would I not agree to that, I'd think your mouth would loll open simply as a result of relaxing muscles as you fall asleep. Which I will be doing now.

I can literally tell you that I've fallen asleep in the same condition you're in now, and totally survived because this is a fantasy you've concocted.

Night.

Spearthrower wrote:

Sara4321 wrote:
This has nothing to do with the fact that the reflex to breathe through your mouth during sleep when the nose is blocked does not happen during sleep.

The body will continue to try and breathe through the blocked nose instead, resulting in hypoxia and then death.

Completely false and you could find this out for yourself in seconds by going to Google Scholar and searching for 'breathe mouth sleep' or some combination thereof.

I got 223,000 hits.

Let's assume that 90% of those hits are false ones and the article contains nothing relevant but merely happens to mention those words.

That still leaves 22,000 published articles in scientific journals discussing the effect of breathing with your mouth open while sleeping while you're here telling strangers on the internet that up is down and that breathing through your mouth while asleep is a myth.

This is not the kind of website for confidence and bluster. Acknowledge facts, don't make them up to suit you.

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=e ... +sleep&oq=

search: breathe through mouth sleep

About 233,000 results (0.03 sec)

Mouth breathing,“nasal disuse,” and pediatric sleep-disordered breathing

Adenotonsillectomy (T&A) may not completely eliminate sleep-disordered breathing (SDB), and residual SDB can result in progressive worsening of abnormal breathing during sleep. Persistence of mouth breathing post-T&As plays a role in progressive worsening through an increase of upper airway resistance during sleep with secondary impact on orofacial growth.



Breathing route during sleep

Nasal obstruction has been associated with apneic episodes during sleep. However, the normal distribution of nasal and oral air flow while asleep has not been investigated. To determine the normal route of ventilation during sleep, we studied 7 healthy men and 7 healthy women using a sealed face mask that mechanically separated nasal and oral air flow. Standard sleep staging techniques were employed. The subjects slept 297 ± 29 (SEM) min, with a mean of 197 ± 15 min of ventilation recorded. Ventilation was decreased during sleep as has been previously demonstrated. However, during sleep, we found that men breathed a greater percentage of total ventilation through the mouth (29.0 ± 8.2%) than did women (5.0 ± 1.0%, p > 0.02). The same trend applied during wakefulness but did not reach significance (p = 0.06). Although none was symptomatic, 4 subjects, all men, had more than 3 apneas per hour. These 4 men had a greater percentage of mouth ventilation (37.3 ± 19.0%) than did the other 10 subjects with few or no apneas (8.1 ± 2.7%, p > 0.02). It was also noted that increasing age in men was associated with an increasing percentage of mouth ventilation (r = 0.83 p > 0.03) but this relationship was not observed in women. We conclude that mouth breathing may be associated with apneas during sleep and that breathing through the mouth occurs commonly in men, particularly in those who are older. This suggests that nasal breathing may be important in the maintenance of ventilatory rhythmicity during sleep.


Rediscovering the importance of nasal breathing in sleep or, shut your mouth and save your sleep

Recent research, stimulated by the growing awareness of the sleep apnea syndrome, has shown that nasal breathing plays a major role in the regulation of respiration in sleep. These observations are not new; they confirm century-old clinical findings on the importance of nasal breathing in sleep. The earliest account of the deleterious effects of mouth breathing in sleep was made by Lemnious Levinus towards the end of the sixteenth century. Two hundred years later, Catlin dedicated an entire book to the superiority of nasal breathing over mouth breathing in sleep; and in the late 1800's, Cline, Wells, Griffin and others showed that obstructed nasal breathing causes sleep disorders.

Thousands of experts from dozens of fields of expertise would not accept your assertion. You can't build cogent arguments based on falsehoods.

Obviously, as we all know, it is of course perfectly normal for people to breathe through their mouths while sleeping, that the body would indeed autonomously begin mouth-breathing rather than nasal-breathing, and that were you to experience asphyxiation while asleep, you would wake up very quickly. I am sure that most people here have experienced most of these things in the course of their lives, so it's a bit hard for you to convince people otherwise even if they remained equally unaware of the scientific literature as you.

However, were we to then talk about a scenario in which sedatives mixed with depressants were involved, then we would not be talking about a normal situation at all, but one where these drugs are playing a significant role in the body's responses and any consequences arising from the effect of those drugs on the body.