Is "Islamophobic" a nonsensical term?

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Re: Is "Islamophobic" a nonsensical term?

#101  Postby THWOTH » Jul 14, 2014 10:44 pm

So we're not Islamophobic if we have rational fears and a rational opposition to Islam. Cool.

Kofi Annan wrote:UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan’s address to the Department of Public Information seminar, “Confronting Islamophobia: Education for Tolerance and Understanding”
New York, 7 December 2004


... An honest look at Islamophobia must also acknowledge the policy context. The historical experience of Muslims includes colonialism and domination by the West, either direct or indirect. Resentment is fed by the unresolved conflicts in the Middle East, by the situation in Chechnya, and by atrocities committed against Muslims in the former Yugoslavia. The reaction to such events can be visceral, bringing an almost personal sense of affront. But we should remember that these are political reactions -- disagreements with specific policies. All too often, they are mistaken for an Islamic reaction against Western values, sparking an anti-Islamic backlash.

Efforts to combat Islamophobia must also contend with the question of terrorism and violence carried out in the name of Islam. Islam should not be judged by the acts of extremists who deliberately target and kill civilians. The few give a bad name to the many, and this is unfair. All of us must condemn those who carry out such morally reprehensible acts, which no cause can justify. Muslims themselves, especially, should speak out, as so many did following the 11 September attacks on the United States, and show a commitment to isolate those who preach or practice violence and to make it clear that these are unacceptable distortions of Islam. Indeed, it is essential that solutions come from within Islam itself -- perhaps in the Muslim tradition of “ijtihad”, or free interpretation. Such open inquiry, such openness to what is good and bad, in their cultures and others, may well offer a very useful path on this question and others.

Islamophobia is at once a deeply personal issue for Muslims, a matter of great importance to anyone concerned about upholding universal values, and a question with implications for international harmony and peace. We should not underestimate the resentment and sense of injustice felt by members of one of the world’s great religions, cultures and civilizations. And we must make the re-establishment of trust among people of different faiths and cultures our highest priority. Otherwise, discrimination will continue to taint many innocent lives, and distrust might make it impossible to move ahead with our ambitious international agenda of peace, security and development.

We live in one world. We need to understand and respect each other, live peacefully together and live up to the best of our respective traditions. That is not as easy as we might like it to be. But that is all the more reason to try harder, with all our tools and all our will.

http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2004/sgsm9637.doc.htm
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Re: Is "Islamophobic" a nonsensical term?

#102  Postby Fallible » Jul 14, 2014 11:03 pm

OlivierK wrote:
epepke wrote:I found it interesting that I think I could defend that thesis, but only of course by stating that morality was bad. And then lots of people didn't like me for that, which is unsurprising but a little bit interesting.

It's also false. Here is your post, and anyone can read that there are, in fact, not a lot of people disliking you or your views, but in fact a few people, including myself, broadly agreeing while discussing details. The fact that you feel the need to invent this hostility to your views is interesting, if a little unsurprising. ;)


Indeed. Also, I'd like to know how one could state that morality was 'bad' without invoking morality.
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Re: Is "Islamophobic" a nonsensical term?

#103  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Jul 14, 2014 11:16 pm

HomerJay wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
HomerJay wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:The above is why, imo, Islamophobia is a sensible term as there are people who have an irrational dislike of anything and everything Islamic.
That's not to say there isn't valid criticism against the religion or some of it's followers of course, but it isn't a dichotomy.

But this is just a hideously contrived, post-hoc retro-rationalisation of the term.

Nope, it's apt descriptor for people who have an irrational fear or opposition towards anything Islamic.
Just like homophobia and xenophobia.

No, it's not like them at all, that's the problem.

No, the problem is your blind dismissal.

HomerJay wrote:Neither of these are specific to an ideology

Like I said before, xenophobia can apply both to foreign people and foreign culture/customs.

HomerJay wrote: if you remove the ideology and talk people then it's anti-muslim discrimination, a far better term because it doesn't preclude rejection of the ideology.

It isn't a better term as discrimination refers to action.
Whereas -phobias refer to mindsets.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Is "Islamophobic" a nonsensical term?

#104  Postby HomerJay » Jul 14, 2014 11:41 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
HomerJay wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
HomerJay wrote:
But this is just a hideously contrived, post-hoc retro-rationalisation of the term.

Nope, it's apt descriptor for people who have an irrational fear or opposition towards anything Islamic.
Just like homophobia and xenophobia.

No, it's not like them at all, that's the problem.

No, the problem is your blind dismissal.

It's not blind dismissal, there's simply no evidence available that this neologism sits in a previously used classification and as yet there is no evidence of the classsifcation itself!

Customs do not form part of an ideology - unless now you're going to say everyone been using ideology in the wrong sense and it covers customs as well. :doh:

Find a term that relates to a SPECIFIC ideology.

And then describe the classification and suggest more ideologies you want in that classifcation and the words you're going to use to describe them.
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Re: Is "Islamophobic" a nonsensical term?

#105  Postby trogs » Jan 22, 2015 6:46 pm

Anybody who tries to characterise your dislike of something as a phobia or a pathology, is a slimy salesperson.

Disliking Islam is not a phobia. It's a dislike. Doesn't mean that you hate all muslims, any more than atheism implies hatred of all believers.
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Re: Is "Islamophobic" a nonsensical term?

#106  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Jan 22, 2015 7:02 pm

trogs wrote:Anybody who tries to characterise your dislike of something as a phobia or a pathology, is a slimy salesperson.

Just to be clear, according to you, Acrophobia, Mysophobia etc. don't exist?

trogs wrote:Disliking Islam is not a phobia.

No, having an irrational fear and/or opposition to Islam is Islamophobia.
For example if you fear your neighbour, purely because he's a muslim.
Eventhough he's a perfectly harmless, social moderate.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Is "Islamophobic" a nonsensical term?

#107  Postby Scot Dutchy » Jan 22, 2015 11:05 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:No, having an irrational fear and/or opposition to Islam is Islamophobia.


No not quite. You can oppose many things without having a phobia. Only islam likes to promote this. Any opposition to islam is for them a phobia.
Myths in islam Women and islam Musilm opinion polls


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Re: Is "Islamophobic" a nonsensical term?

#108  Postby THWOTH » Jan 23, 2015 12:24 am

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
trogs wrote:Anybody who tries to characterise your dislike of something as a phobia or a pathology, is a slimy salesperson.

Just to be clear, according to you, Acrophobia, Mysophobia etc. don't exist?

trogs wrote:Disliking Islam is not a phobia.

No, having an irrational fear and/or opposition to Islam is Islamophobia.
For example if you fear your neighbour, purely because he's a muslim.
Eventhough he's a perfectly harmless, social moderate.

Indeed. But islamophobia is not a medical or psychological condition, it's a political discriptor applied by some Muslims to those who criticise either some aspect of Islam or some action carried out in the name of islam, or some statement or position justified by Islam.
"No-one is exempt from speaking nonsense – the only misfortune is to do it solemnly."
Michel de Montaigne, Essais, 1580
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Re: Is "Islamophobic" a nonsensical term?

#109  Postby Peter Brown » Feb 05, 2015 12:56 am

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
trogs wrote:Anybody who tries to characterise your dislike of something as a phobia or a pathology, is a slimy salesperson.

Just to be clear, according to you, Acrophobia, Mysophobia etc. don't exist?

trogs wrote:Disliking Islam is not a phobia.

No, having an irrational fear and/or opposition to Islam is Islamophobia.
For example if you fear your neighbour, purely because he's a muslim.
Eventhough he's a perfectly harmless, social moderate.


If you fear a Muslim then it is Muslimophobia

After talking with Islamophobics I redefine Islamophobia as the fear that Islam isn't really real so there is an irrational drive to protect it. Kind of like Creationists, all forms of lies are constructed and in advanced cases of creationism even a complete amnesia of the bible occurs presenting in a belief of an intelligent designer. For Islamophobics this amnesia is of Quran verses which have nothing to do with peace but do tell the follower to smite lots of necks for the booty Allah promises them.

Rezaffleckism is an offshot of the virus where the individual is unable to hear the word Islam and hears Muslim instead?
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