Qi Gong test on Fight Science

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Qi Gong test on Fight Science

#1  Postby inkaStepa » Oct 27, 2011 11:38 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEOSkqGUK-M

How do you explain how this Shoalin Monk doesn't die?
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Re: Qi Gong test on Fight Science

#2  Postby Ironclad » Oct 28, 2011 12:26 am

The blow is very well controlled, there is minimal penetration. The blow to the monk is near half the power given to the dummy, still a lot of force but in my opinion the organs aren't getting crushed.
I watched the Shoalin Monks at the theatre and one act was similar, blades were thwacked into bodies and as the monks ran amongst the audience one was struck across the back of the neck with an iron bar. On closer inspection it was a poorly cast-iron bar. You could see the grain in it, I thought it would break if it was simply dropped on the floor.
These guys are good, but there are little 'aids' to protection.
I bet I could put that monk I hospital, given the baseball bat.
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Re: Qi Gong test on Fight Science

#3  Postby Goldenmane » Oct 28, 2011 12:36 am

Combination of bullshit and performance. It's not actually hard to develop the ability to withstand fairly serious abdominal blows, especially if it's only the one blow and you're ready for it, and especially especially if it's a blow delivered by your buddy who's trained for years to pull the fucking strike.

Witness how the dude with the baseball bat doesn't move after hitting the dummy, but recoils like he's bounced off a rubber wall when he hits the 'monk': that's a trick used to cause watchers to automatically and unconsciously attribute much greater force to the blow than is actually there.

Also, the scientist (if she is one) is babbling nonsense when she says "I can't measure qi" - she's buying into the fucking narrative of qi being magical energy bullshit that can't be measured.

The monk is pulling a fucking con-job, PT Barnum would have hired the cunt on the spot, and there's nothing unexplainable about it. Still one born every minute.
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Re: Qi Gong test on Fight Science

#4  Postby Gallstones » Oct 28, 2011 3:36 am

How do they fare with bullets?
The Lakota would like to know.
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Re: Qi Gong test on Fight Science

#5  Postby cavarka9 » Oct 28, 2011 6:31 am

they can measure the amount of force they exert on the ground, thats a sure way of checking the kinetic-linking thingy, which supposedly helps bring in extra force.(didnt watch the video)
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Re: Qi Gong test on Fight Science

#6  Postby JoeB » Oct 28, 2011 7:36 am

That's a lot of drama in the video, could've condensed it into a 30 second clip without losing information. Oh well. I was expecting Stephen Fry to show up on the Qi-table :lol:

I agree with Goldenmane, the difference between hitting the dummy and person is quite obvious, he didn't put his weight into the second hit at all.
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Re: Qi Gong test on Fight Science

#7  Postby Bribase » Oct 28, 2011 7:45 am

The slow motion footage at 4:25 pretty much shows it. The bat may have been travelling at full speed but master Wong was hit about half way down the bat, in fact he couldn't have been hit closer to the handle. It's just a parlor trick using angular velocity while spreading as much of the force across master Wong's stomach as possible. I would be winded but I would probably survive it.

Qi Gong is little more than exceptional technique and theatrics that in my mind was employed as propaganda between competing martial arts schools. Saying that your students were able to channel the ethereal energy of the universe is a powerful tactic to employ, being able to demonstrate it by using physics to make things look more spectacular than they are is even better.

Inka, just look at the video. There's nothing supernatural here.
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Re: Qi Gong test on Fight Science

#8  Postby twistor59 » Oct 28, 2011 8:31 am

Blah, stick the monk in the Octagon along with GSP or any of those dudes and see how long his Qi Gong protects him for.
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Re: Qi Gong test on Fight Science

#9  Postby Goldenmane » Oct 28, 2011 8:38 am

twistor59 wrote:Blah, stick the monk in the Octagon along with GSP or any of those dudes and see how long his Qi Gong protects him for.


There was a school called Yellow Bamboo that did similar bullshit.

They got schooled on South Beach in Fremantle a number of years ago. I still have the footage around somewhere. Turns out you can't use magic to stop some cunt picking you up and ramming your head into the dirt. :mrgreen:
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Re: Qi Gong test on Fight Science

#10  Postby lobawad » Oct 28, 2011 8:45 am

I had a hands-on demonstration of Qui Gong by a student of traditional Chinese medicine. I (average sized) and a soldier (Ranger, brutally strong) together had as much effect trying to push over a young man slighter than either of us as trying to push down a wall. It was awesome, in the old sense of the word, but clearly not magic. If chi were magic he wouldn't have had to have gone into special poses, and it was clear that with some momentum, or going at it until the guy got tired of concentrating, we could have pushed him over, and he even said this was the case, i.e. he wasn't claiming magic, beyond "using chi", the actual (super)nature of which he was agnostic about.

I would guess Chi is a superbly effective visualization/conception technique for getting your breathing, postures, etc. into maximally efficient order.
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Re: Qi Gong test on Fight Science

#11  Postby Bribase » Oct 28, 2011 8:59 am

lobawad wrote:I had a hands-on demonstration of Qui Gong by a student of traditional Chinese medicine. I (average sized) and a soldier (Ranger, brutally strong) together had as much effect trying to push over a young man slighter than either of us as trying to push down a wall. It was awesome, in the old sense of the word, but clearly not magic. If chi were magic he wouldn't have had to have gone into special poses, and it was clear that with some momentum, or going at it until the guy got tired of concentrating, we could have pushed him over, and he even said this was the case, i.e. he wasn't claiming magic, beyond "using chi", the actual (super)nature of which he was agnostic about.

I would guess Chi is a superbly effective visualization/conception technique for getting your breathing, postures, etc. into maximally efficient order.


:this:
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Re: Qi Gong test on Fight Science

#12  Postby Goldenmane » Oct 28, 2011 2:58 pm

Yeah, kinda... except I'd say 'reasonably effective' rather than 'superbly'.

Remind me to do a write-up some time.
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Re: Qi Gong test on Fight Science

#13  Postby Onyx8 » Oct 28, 2011 4:34 pm

I knew a guy who did Tae Kwon Do for decades and got taken apart by some drunk in a bar.
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Re: Qi Gong test on Fight Science

#14  Postby inkaStepa » Oct 28, 2011 10:47 pm

How does the spear not go through his throat?
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Re: Qi Gong test on Fight Science

#15  Postby IIzO » Oct 28, 2011 11:12 pm

lobawad wrote:I had a hands-on demonstration of Qui Gong by a student of traditional Chinese medicine. I (average sized) and a soldier (Ranger, brutally strong) together had as much effect trying to push over a young man slighter than either of us as trying to push down a wall. It was awesome, in the old sense of the word, but clearly not magic. If chi were magic he wouldn't have had to have gone into special poses, and it was clear that with some momentum, or going at it until the guy got tired of concentrating, we could have pushed him over, and he even said this was the case, i.e. he wasn't claiming magic, beyond "using chi", the actual (super)nature of which he was agnostic about.

I would guess Chi is a superbly effective visualization/conception technique for getting your breathing, postures, etc. into maximally efficient order.

reminded me of this :
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKJsOSdFOTQ[/youtube]
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Re: Qi Gong test on Fight Science

#16  Postby AlohaChris » Oct 29, 2011 1:26 am

I had a friend who owned a karate school. He was quite highly skilled and an excellent fighter, but was forced to teach children's classes to keep the doors to the gym open. Part of his black belt training included how to keep 'increasing' the kids power & improvement.

He would keep poplar boards around the gym, which the kids would try to break, most of the time unsuccessfully. Before the kids belt test, he would tell them that he knew they would be successful, and to concentrate and use all their power during the test. The day before the belt test, he would buy pine boards at the lumber store and bake them in the oven for hours until they were dry as twigs. You can guess what happened the next day. The kids would smash right through these brittle boards and 'pass' the belt test.

I asked him why he did this and he told me that parents want to see little Johnny succeed and if they did, time went by & money came in. I could tell he wasn't proud of it, but it was a means to an end. He had other tricks for adults: a carefully hidden x-ray film hidden in his gi that made quite a cracking sound when he let someone hit him. That coupled with a carefully timed wince of 'pain' convinced many to keep paying for fighting 'ability' they didn't possess.

One of his other parlor tricks was to break a baseball bat with a kick of his shin. The bat also spent days 'curing' in a hot oven.
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Re: Qi Gong test on Fight Science

#17  Postby Oldskeptic » Oct 30, 2011 7:09 pm

inkaStepa wrote:How does the spear not go through his throat?


Watch close and you will see that he is not pushing against the tip. He is pushing against the flat side and it appears to be flexible. Notice that he has red marks on his sternum, that's were the pressure was being applied.

I'd like to see this demonstration done with the spear point turned 90 degrees. He'd be dead.

As has been pointed out by others, the guy with the bat pulls his punch and hits not with the end of the bat, but with the area close to the handle.

It's pallor tricks that this so called scientist fell for.
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Re: Qi Gong test on Fight Science

#18  Postby Ironclad » Oct 30, 2011 7:59 pm

To add one for the Chi 'thing', my friend could break those plastic chop-sticks by pushing them into his throat. They'd go in small point first and he'd keep applying the pressure until *snap*
I was bloody annoyed, I'd been training with him and the same sifu for a number of years but he alone got the Chi teachings. I tried to watch him very closely and could only guess that he was holding air in his wind-pipe, perhaps to strengthen or bolster it. No baking involved here.

Oh, and just to add these unbending items were pushed into the throat and above the suprasternal notch.
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Re: Qi Gong test on Fight Science

#19  Postby inkaStepa » Oct 30, 2011 9:25 pm

Even if he did put the pressure on his chest area, nothing is keeping it there it would've slid right into his throat.
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Re: Qi Gong test on Fight Science

#20  Postby Ironclad » Oct 30, 2011 9:34 pm

Maybe, but there it was.
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