Thai Ngoc / Al Herpin - people who claim to never sleep.

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Thai Ngoc / Al Herpin - people who claim to never sleep.

#1  Postby Soral » Aug 04, 2014 3:17 am

Thoughts? Is it biologically possible to survive without any sleep as these people claim?

Reminds me of those cranks who claim to go decades without eating.
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Re: Thai Ngoc / Al Herpin - people who claim to never sleep.

#2  Postby surreptitious57 » Aug 04, 2014 4:28 am

I regularly go for over thirty hours without sleep myself. But that is obviously not in the same
category as this. I am sceptical however for my understanding is that a human body needs to
sleep in order to preserve energy. And if the laws of biology can be manipulated by the mind
then I would like to see scientific evidence for this
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Re: Thai Ngoc / Al Herpin - people who claim to never sleep.

#3  Postby Scot Dutchy » Aug 04, 2014 5:39 am

Define sleep.
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Re: Thai Ngoc / Al Herpin - people who claim to never sleep.

#4  Postby Spearthrower » Oct 05, 2014 3:51 pm

What might be interesting is to do the relevant scans to see if their brains are producing a state similar to sleep while retaining conscious wakefulness.

I'm very skeptical of a claim that they 'never' sleep, though.
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Re: Thai Ngoc / Al Herpin - people who claim to never sleep.

#5  Postby chairman bill » Oct 05, 2014 4:15 pm

I sometimes go for a few days without sleep - that results in hallucinations, a brain like mush, simple tasks are incredibly difficult, and so on. I'd be very skeptical of their claims.
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Re: Thai Ngoc / Al Herpin - people who claim to never sleep.

#6  Postby Thommo » Oct 05, 2014 4:23 pm

I have absolutely crippling problems with insomnia, but even 36 hours without sleep is very debilitating for me, after 48 hours I am usually slurring my speech, and start to lose proper regulation of body temperature going from sweating to shivering and back in very short periods of time. My temper and perceptions become altered even sooner, becoming extremely short tempered and sensitive to noise or distraction.

It's hard to believe the claim in the OP, but for me not in the same realms as claiming you need no food or air which have pretty basic violations of physics and chemistry. Clearly the amount of sleep people need varies enormously and the actual core mechanisms and function of sleep are not hugely clear.
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Re: Thai Ngoc / Al Herpin - people who claim to never sleep.

#7  Postby Spearthrower » Oct 05, 2014 4:31 pm

chairman bill wrote:I sometimes go for a few days without sleep - that results in hallucinations, a brain like mush, simple tasks are incredibly difficult, and so on. I'd be very skeptical of their claims.



I've had insomnia since as long as I can recall.

The worst case I had was in university in the first year, which resulted in something like 15 days of no sleep. I can't really be sure of much because after 5 or 6 days, I was hardly mentally competent enough to know what was going on. When i finally did fall asleep, I was out for 28 hours and was only woken up by paramedics and police breaking into my university residence room responding to neighbours' concerns having not seen me for such a long time.

Things got very, very odd very, very quickly. I can remember all manner of visual and auditory hallucinations far greater than any psychedelic drug I may, or may not have consumed during my younger years.

I eventually filled in details from people who had been around and witnessed my descent into gibbering lunacy.

I've never experienced anything like that since, but I do routinely miss out on a lot of sleep per week as I can't sleep at night and have to go to work the next day. By the time I get home from work, I feel shagged, but then I can't sleep again. I'd say I get, on average, somewhat less than 28 hours of sleep a week, but I'll also have a night of 10 - 12 hours sleep 'catching up'.

I know it's supposed to be impossible to catch up on sleep, but my brain appears to not believe this is the case.
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Re: Thai Ngoc / Al Herpin - people who claim to never sleep.

#8  Postby chairman bill » Oct 05, 2014 4:35 pm

That sounds about right, but I've also gone for a few weeks on no more than three or four hours sleep per day, and been able to function just fine
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Re: Thai Ngoc / Al Herpin - people who claim to never sleep.

#9  Postby Spearthrower » Oct 05, 2014 4:35 pm

Thommo wrote:I have absolutely crippling problems with insomnia, but even 36 hours without sleep is very debilitating for me, after 48 hours I am usually slurring my speech, and start to lose proper regulation of body temperature going from sweating to shivering and back in very short periods of time. My temper and perceptions become altered even sooner, becoming extremely short tempered and sensitive to noise or distraction.

It's hard to believe the claim in the OP, but for me not in the same realms as claiming you need no food or air which have pretty basic violations of physics and chemistry. Clearly the amount of sleep people need varies enormously and the actual core mechanisms and function of sleep are not hugely clear.


Definitely agree with the latter there; I just wonder whether there's some other state of consciousness that's occurring with these people who are effectively getting the same benefits as if they'd slept. Plenty of other creatures have no explicit catatonic state, but can be said to 'sleep'.
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Re: Thai Ngoc / Al Herpin - people who claim to never sleep.

#10  Postby Thommo » Oct 05, 2014 4:38 pm

Spearthrower wrote:Definitely agree with the latter there; I just wonder whether there's some other state of consciousness that's occurring with these people who are effectively getting the same benefits as if they'd slept. Plenty of other creatures have no explicit catatonic state, but can be said to 'sleep'.


Absolutely, I think that's a good point. And while I'm nodding along I'll say my brain has similar disbelief to yours on the "can't catch up sleep" view, I generally find that I really feel the effects about one day delayed though (from either too little or too much sleep).

All that said I'm still sceptical of the claim in the OP, with today's monitoring techniques if such people exist it should be eminently verifiable and I'm sure a lot could be learned from such verification and analysis of the data recovered in the process.
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Re: Thai Ngoc / Al Herpin - people who claim to never sleep.

#11  Postby I'm With Stupid » Oct 05, 2014 5:43 pm

There's only one way to find out. A new series of Big Brother. But I've just Googled Thai Ngoc, and he doesn't seem like he's out to bullshit anyone. In fact, it sound like he sees it more as a medical problem he'd like solved than some sort of superpower to boast about.

Of course it might be bullshit, but there's a lot of weird shit in the world, so I wouldn't write them off just yet.
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Re: Thai Ngoc / Al Herpin - people who claim to never sleep.

#12  Postby Varangian » Oct 05, 2014 11:01 pm

I seldom sleep more than four hours/night. I've found that 36 hrs or so without sleep makes me about as sharp as if I was pretty drunk.
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Re: Thai Ngoc / Al Herpin - people who claim to never sleep.

#13  Postby Scot Dutchy » Oct 06, 2014 3:31 am

I never slept much. I did a newspaper round as a kid of 11 (illegal but I was a big boy). Always getting up at 5 am.
When I did night shift in the police I only slept 2-3 hours and plenty of times never.

I cant "lie-in". Today at my age four to five hours is more than enough.
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