The Legendary ‘Sword in the Stone’

Do we have any rational explanation for this case?

Anything that doesn't fit anywhere else below.

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Re: The Legendary ‘Sword in the Stone’

#21  Postby Svartalf » Jul 05, 2019 11:39 am

Man, not to diss Nennius who did some excellent work and is a basic source, but Arthur as a Sarmatian mercenary just doesn't hold water, the local aristocracy would never have upheld the rule of a guy who was not one of them, Britishers have been insular for longer than human memory can tell.
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Re: The Legendary ‘Sword in the Stone’

#22  Postby Spearthrower » Jul 05, 2019 11:40 am

Svartalf wrote:Man, not to diss Nennius who did some excellent work and is a basic source, but Arthur as a Sarmatian mercenary just doesn't hold water, the local aristocracy would never have upheld the rule of a guy who was not one of them, Britishers have been insular for longer than human memory can tell.



It's not meant to be thought about - you're meant to just emote at it! ;)
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Re: The Legendary ‘Sword in the Stone’

#23  Postby Svartalf » Jul 05, 2019 11:43 am

:scratch:
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Re: The Legendary ‘Sword in the Stone’

#24  Postby Spearthrower » Jul 05, 2019 11:46 am

Svartalf wrote::scratch:



You first need to be a white-supremacist Serbian nationalist, then emote at it. I am sure it will make whatever the equivalent of 'sense' is then.
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Re: The Legendary ‘Sword in the Stone’

#25  Postby Svartalf » Jul 05, 2019 12:18 pm

Well, not being Serbian, I'll never catch the 'sense' of it all then.
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Re: The Legendary ‘Sword in the Stone’

#26  Postby Hermit » Jul 05, 2019 12:49 pm

Svartalf wrote:...the local aristocracy would never have upheld the rule of a guy who was not one of them, Britishers have been insular for longer than human memory can tell.

...What do you mean by "Britishers"? To start with, there was no such political or social entity as "Britain/England". Geographic Britain was no more than a motley lot of clans and tribes ruled over by warlords until the house of Lancaster and the House of York had it out during the War of the Roses. Whatever. Britain or not, aristocracies have always accepted the rule of a guy who was not one of them on many occasions. Several of those instances did in fact occur before as well as after after Britain did in fact come into existence, William the Conqueror being the most famous example in 1066, followed by William of Orange in 1688 and the latest instance being George Louis, who became the first British monarch of the House of Hanover as George I in 1714.
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Re: The Legendary ‘Sword in the Stone’

#27  Postby mercy18 » Jul 05, 2019 3:18 pm

Thank you for your responses. I just wanted to know how it got there and whether it has been scientifically investigated. I
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Re: The Legendary ‘Sword in the Stone’

#28  Postby Spearthrower » Jul 05, 2019 3:25 pm

Pretty much steel tools and sandstone should be enough to suggest there's a mundane reason for it. Sandstone is quite soft and therefore easy to carve, which is why it's frequently used for sculptures.
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Re: The Legendary ‘Sword in the Stone’

#29  Postby Nevets » Mar 11, 2020 2:35 am

mercy18 wrote:Hello everyone,

I was wondering if we do have a plausible explanation for this case of The Legendary ‘Sword in the Stone’which was discovered at Montesiepi Chapel in Italy, and belongs to St. Galgano Guidotti.

More information on this link: http://www.hoaxorfact.com/history/the-legendary-sword-in-the-stone-is-real-discovered-at-montesiepi-chapel-in-italy-facts.html

Waiting for your views. Thank you


King Arthur is interesting.
Absolutely everyone (lots - a few), wants to lay claim to being from the area King Arthur was based.

I'v stupidly attempted to put up arguments in the past, in favour of maybe some truth in the theory. Such as maybe he was a King from pre-roman britain who's story got supressed with the legends being past down from generation to generation in oral form, until such-times they began to be rewritten, but with wrong timeframe, wrong era, wrong location, and lots of myth.
But the theory is easily shot down, as it is something just cannot be proven.

There is a few facts in the Aurthur legend that are true however, which i feel "may" rule out the possibility of those events taking place in another country, when some Romano-Brits began to flee Cedric and other Anglo-Saxon territories, by fleeing to areas such as Brittany.

I think the Battle of Badon, which was a war faught between Anglo-Saxons and Celts at a disputed location, possibly Hadrians wall, and a battle won by Celts, was actually a real battle, and really did happen

The Battle of Badon was a battle purportedly fought between Celtic Britons and Anglo-Saxons in Britain in the late 5th or early 6th century. It was credited as a major victory for the Britons, stopping the encroachment of the Anglo-Saxon kingdoms for a period. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Badon


Now, according to Arthurians, King Arthur was supposed to have been the leader of the Celts in this battle

The earliest references to the battle date to the 6th century. It is chiefly known today for the supposed involvement of King Arthur https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Badon


The legend is left open by the fact that history books are uncertain about who the military commander of the Celts was that day

Gildas doesn't directly name the British commander at Badon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of ... ount_Badon


And another battle that was believed to be historically real, which also includes "Arthur" in it's legend, was Battle of Camlann, which this time was faught near Hadrians wall, on the side that is now Cumbria, and this time it involved a defeat for the Celts.
The legend also mentions Mordred, presumably Arthurs military opponent, assuming Mordred was on the Saxon side, and this is shared by historical data, that does indeed record Mordred, but there is no contemporary mention of Arthur leading the Celtic forces

The earliest known reference to the battle of Camlann is an entry in the 10th-century Annales Cambriae, recording the battle in the year 537[5] (or 539, but 537 in most editions[6]). It mentions Mordred, but it does not specify that he and Arthur fought on opposite sides. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of ... istoricity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of ... istoricity


Therefore it would seem that there is no dispute that these legends were definitely supposed to be regarding events going on at this time. And not from an era pre-rome, or in a different country.
And a lot of the Arthurian legend is probably thrown in anywhere there is discrepancies, such as no-one knowing who the military commander that day was.

But good luck with proving your Arthurian theory, it would certainly be great to hear anymore information you have to support your case.
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Re: The Legendary ‘Sword in the Stone’

#30  Postby Nevets » Mar 11, 2020 5:00 am

I have done some quick research to see if i can find any semi-legitimate reason to suspect there could be an Italian link to King Arthur, or it being worthy of farther research.

There is one thing that came to mind, and it was the great conspiracy of 367, which was a year-long state of war and disorder that occurred in Roman Britain near the end of the Roman rule of the island.

The Great Conspiracy was a year-long state of war and disorder that occurred in Roman Britain near the end of the Roman rule of the island. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Conspiracy


Basically, Roman garrisons got completely over-ran by swathes of invaders in what would appear to be an organised and pre-planned invasion, which is why i think it is officially regarded as a conspiracy.

The invaders were made up of Caledonians, Hibernians, Scots, Germanians, Saxons, Franks.

n the winter of 367, the Roman garrison on Hadrian's Wall rebelled, and allowed Picts from Caledonia to enter Britannia. Simultaneously, Attacotti, the Scotti from Hibernia, and Saxons from Germania landed in what might have been coordinated and pre-arranged https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Con ... conspiracy


The Romans were completely over-ran, in every city, and the Roman-brits murdered, raped, enslaved

These warbands managed to overwhelm nearly all of the loyal Roman outposts and settlements. The entire western and northern areas of Britannia were overwhelmed, the cities sacked and the civilian Romano-British murdered, raped, or enslaved. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Con ... conspiracy


The British Roman military leaders was murdered, and Roman Garrisons seized

Nectaridus, the comes maritime tractus (commanding general of the seacoast region), was killed and the Dux Britanniarum, Fullofaudes, was either besieged or captured and the remaining loyal army units stayed garrisoned inside southeastern cities https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Con ... conspiracy


It is suspected that the reason this co-ordinated attack was allowed to happen, under the radar of the Romans, was because Roman intelligence officials had been corruptedm and were on the pay-roll of the opposing factions

The miles areani or local Roman agents that provided intelligence on barbarian movements seem to have betrayed their paymasters for bribes, making the attacks completely unexpected. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Con ... conspiracy


There was a couple of unsuccessful attempts by the Romans to restore order, and repel the invaders, but were unsuccessful

Emperor Valentinian I was campaigning against the Alamanni at the time and unable to respond personally. A series of commanders to act in his stead were chosen but swiftly recalled. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Con ... n_response


Instep Flavius Theodosius, with four Roman military units, and he made his way to Lundinium, and from there, drove the invaders out, one small step at a time

In the spring of 368, a relief force commanded by Flavius Theodosius gathered at Bononia. It included four units, Batavi, Heruli, Iovii and Victores as well as his son, the later Emperor Theodosius I and probably the later usurper Magnus Maximus, his nephew.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Con ... n_response


He eventually emerged victorious

Once the troops landed, Theodosius marched with them to Londinium which he made his base. There he began to deal with the invaders:

There he divided his troops into many parts and attacked the predatory bands of the enemy, which were ranging about and were laden with heavy packs; quickly routing those who were driving along prisoners and cattle, he wrested from them the booty which the wretched tribute-paying people had lost. And when all this had been restored to them, except for a small part which was allotted to the wearied soldiers, he entered the city, which had previously been plunged into the greatest difficulties, but had been restored more quickly than rescue could have been expected, rejoicing and as if celebrating an ovation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Con ... Theodosius


By the end of the year, he could return to Italy

By the end of the year, the barbarians had been driven back to their homelands; the mutineers had been executed; Hadrian's Wall was retaken; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Con ... Theodosius


Theodosius returned to Rome a hero, and was made senior military advisor to Valentinian I, replacing Jovinus. A decade later, his son became emperor. The Romans were able to end much of the chaos, though raids by all of the people listed above did continue. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Con ... al_effects


Now i am just thinking of all the panic and terror that the Romano-Brit Citizens south of Hadrians wall, must have went through during this period, when their army had been overcome, and i am sure Theodosius must have appeared legendary to them.

And whilst the story is inconsistent to say the least, with much of the King Arthur legend, which includes real battles, such as Battle of Badon, and Battle of Camlann, and him being an enemy of the Saxons. There are also consistencies, with Arthur being a Christian warrior, on the side of the Romano-British, and also his reclaiming forts and garrisons throughout the country, does bare similarity.

But perhaps, one never knows, it could have been the roots of a legend, with everything else for a good while after, being credited to this Romano-British hero, who came in, reclaimed the country, then left just as quick
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Re: The Legendary ‘Sword in the Stone’

#31  Postby Spearthrower » Mar 11, 2020 8:43 am

I have done some quick research ...


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia
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Re: The Legendary ‘Sword in the Stone’

#32  Postby Fallible » Mar 11, 2020 1:45 pm

Steven, this is becoming extremely boring. Every time I come in here there’s either another new thread from you, or another thread necroed by you...and they’re all just lists of wiki links.
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Re: The Legendary ‘Sword in the Stone’

#33  Postby Sendraks » Mar 11, 2020 3:21 pm

I imagine that Steven has only recently discovered wikipedia and is so amazed at the discovery which, is surely one of the great discoveries of the modern age, that he is over excitedly sharing the wonder with us and the wisdom he assumes come with it.

A bit like a child showing you the contents of a potty it has just used successfully for the first time but, insists on trying to educate you about the process.
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