Thoughts on this eye-healing "miracle"?

Anything that doesn't fit anywhere else below.

Moderators: Calilasseia, DarthHelmet86, Onyx8

Thoughts on this eye-healing "miracle"?

#1  Postby InLoveOfTruth » May 23, 2014 5:41 pm

http://www.miraclesofthesaints.com/2010 ... aints.html

I'm referring to the one involving Giovanni Savino. It DOES seem rather extraordinary, but I am having difficulty finding evidence to prove or disprove it either way. Thoughts? Further findings? Snide remarks?
InLoveOfTruth
THREAD STARTER
 
Name: Mason Walker
Posts: 5

Country: United States
United States (us)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Thoughts on this eye-healing "miracle"?

#2  Postby Calilasseia » May 23, 2014 7:58 pm

I think it would not be difficult to find articles in prestigious medical journals, covering this alleged "miracle", if it had actually happened as stated. The re-acquisition of sight after massive damage from a dynamite explosion, should have been sufficiently noteworthy to be reported in The Lancet or The New England Journal of Medicine. I suspect the doctor treating him would have rushed to print the moment said re-acquisition of eyesight was established by independent test. I know for a fact that if I had been in that doctor's shoes, and witnessed a wholly unexplained re-acquisition of sight after an accident of this magnitude, I'd be reporting the relevant observations to medical journals extremely swiftly.

However, I notice that quite a few of these asserted "miracles" are completely bereft of independent corroboration of this sort. Which leads to a conclusion that quite a few believers therein will not like one little bit, namely, that the accounts as presented, in the absence of said independent corroboration, can be treated as wild embellishments of the facts until said independent corroboration materialises.
Signature temporarily on hold until I can find a reliable image host ...
User avatar
Calilasseia
RS Donator
 
Posts: 22091
Age: 59
Male

Country: England
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Thoughts on this eye-healing "miracle"?

#3  Postby Oldskeptic » May 23, 2014 11:39 pm

InLoveOfTruth wrote:http://www.miraclesofthesaints.com/2010/10/miraculous-cures-in-lives-of-saints.html

I'm referring to the one involving Giovanni Savino. It DOES seem rather extraordinary, but I am having difficulty finding evidence to prove or disprove it either way. Thoughts? Further findings? Snide remarks?


I'll go with snide remarks. Who's sock puppet are you?
There is nothing so absurd that some philosopher will not say it - Cicero.

Traditionally these are questions for philosophy, but philosophy is dead - Stephen Hawking
User avatar
Oldskeptic
 
Posts: 7395
Age: 64
Male

Print view this post

Re: Thoughts on this eye-healing "miracle"?

#4  Postby Onyx8 » May 23, 2014 11:51 pm

Well, as always they repeatedly claim that they have the medical evidence and records but then fail to actually show you any. As you said you cannot find any, why not? The most likely thing is that there isn't any.
The problem with fantasies is you can't really insist that everyone else believes in yours, the other problem with fantasies is that most believers of fantasies eventually get around to doing exactly that.
User avatar
Onyx8
Moderator
 
Posts: 17520
Age: 64
Male

Canada (ca)
Print view this post

Re: Thoughts on this eye-healing "miracle"?

#5  Postby InLoveOfTruth » May 24, 2014 1:44 am

Not a sock puppet, I'm afraid. Though I did have some as a kid. Good points, all. Thanks!
InLoveOfTruth
THREAD STARTER
 
Name: Mason Walker
Posts: 5

Country: United States
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Thoughts on this eye-healing "miracle"?

#6  Postby lyingcheat » May 24, 2014 5:51 am

InLoveOfTruth wrote:http://www.miraclesofthesaints.com/2010/10/miraculous-cures-in-lives-of-saints.html

I'm referring to the one involving Giovanni Savino. It DOES seem rather extraordinary, but I am having difficulty finding evidence to prove or disprove it either way. Thoughts? Further findings? Snide remarks?


Beats me. The site reporting it seems completely impartial and trustworthy, and they even reference a book written about the events and reproduce some fuzzy photos, so it's probably all true.


I was also taken with the miracle of blessed Alexandrina da Costa reported on that site.
In 1918, when she was aged 14, she was sexually molested by three men who violently entered her home. Thank you Holy Sacred Jesus!

Using her miraculous God given power of Free Will, she jumped out of a window and fell 4 meters to the ground. Praise the Lord.
The partial paralysis she suffered as a result of the fall led to her becoming, by age 21, entirely bedridden and mostly housebound until her death - 30 years later - in 1955. Hallelujah!

But prior to dying, after 17 years lying paralysed in bed looking saintly, she was specially selected by god for extra torment - to suffer in union with Jesus! Some people have all the luck hey?

So in 1942 she stopped eating regular food and drinking regular beverages, instead only taking the Eucharist each morning. Miraculously, living on only a tiny cracker and a sip of wine per day, she survived paralysed and bedridden for another 13 years! Starving and probably Insane, surrounded by nutters, but Truly Blessed!

http://www.miraclesofthesaints.com/2010 ... -from.html

There are three fuzzy pictures of someone in bed, presumably Alexandrina da Costa, to back up the story plus links to two books written about her!

One is by an Irish Catholic Priest who specialises in writing impartially about miracles, and the other by a leading light in the 'Alexandrina Society' and devout Catholic producer of materials (DVDs, Booklets. Leaflets, etc etc) related to 'The Eucharist Miracle'.
Both of these books were published by specialist publishers, both located in the Southern USA, of the type who churn out religious flavoured works, including Bibles and 'Prayer Cards', for no reason other than to benefit everyone in the whole world.
https://tanbooks.benedictpress.com/inde ... op:aboutus
http://www.newhope-ky.org/inspiringlives.htm


Seems totally believable to me.



.
> Insert Witty Signature Phrase Here <
User avatar
lyingcheat
 
Posts: 423
Male

Country: Australia
Australia (au)
Print view this post

Re: Thoughts on this eye-healing "miracle"?

#7  Postby Mike_L » May 24, 2014 8:14 am

A pinhole effect created by scar tissue?
From the article:
Giovanni’s wife Rosa insisted that "a small amount of bloody flesh" remained in the socket when Savino was taken to the hospital. She denies that her husband received a "new" eye. "It was always with his own eye that he saw. It was a mess, but he could see out of it."

The "small amount of bloody flesh" perhaps included the undamaged fovea and some sclera. But with the cornea and lens gone, it would not have been possible for light rays to be focused on the fovea... unless bits of the shattered sclera were, perchance, to seal over the fovea in such a way as to leave a tiny hole. This hole could then have served to focus the light to a certain extent.
If one is myopic (short-sighted), one can see the effect in action...
* remove glasses/contact lenses.
* use a pen nib or sharpened pencil to make a small hole (about 1mm diameter) in a piece of paper.
* holding the piece of paper as close as possible to the eye, view a distant object (one that you would ordinarily see as blurred) through the hole. The image is substantially clearer than it is when viewed with the naked eye.

:dunno:
User avatar
Mike_L
 
Posts: 14365
Male

Country: South Africa
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Thoughts on this eye-healing "miracle"?

#8  Postby Goldenmane » Jun 18, 2014 7:46 pm

Mike_L wrote:A pinhole effect created by scar tissue?
From the article:
Giovanni’s wife Rosa insisted that "a small amount of bloody flesh" remained in the socket when Savino was taken to the hospital. She denies that her husband received a "new" eye. "It was always with his own eye that he saw. It was a mess, but he could see out of it."

The "small amount of bloody flesh" perhaps included the undamaged fovea and some sclera. But with the cornea and lens gone, it would not have been possible for light rays to be focused on the fovea... unless bits of the shattered sclera were, perchance, to seal over the fovea in such a way as to leave a tiny hole. This hole could then have served to focus the light to a certain extent.
If one is myopic (short-sighted), one can see the effect in action...
* remove glasses/contact lenses.
* use a pen nib or sharpened pencil to make a small hole (about 1mm diameter) in a piece of paper.
* holding the piece of paper as close as possible to the eye, view a distant object (one that you would ordinarily see as blurred) through the hole. The image is substantially clearer than it is when viewed with the naked eye.

:dunno:


I just tried this.

Works.
-Geoff Rogers

@Goldenmane3

http://goldenmane.onlineinfidels.com/
User avatar
Goldenmane
 
Posts: 2383

Print view this post


Return to General Debunking

Who is online

Users viewing this topic: No registered users and 1 guest