Will the Trump Prophecies bring legitimacy to Christianity?

100+ Modern Prophets Worldwide have Declared God will Overturn the 2020 US Election

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Re: Will the Trump Prophecies bring legitimacy to Christianity?

#641  Postby Spearthrower » Jan 17, 2022 9:59 am

truelgbt wrote:Top Excuses List for Atheists When the Latest Trump Prophecies Come True 2022


The Monday Morning thread of predictions that will definitely happen AFTER the first set of predictions that I asserted will happen actually happen.

It's prediction-squared, you can't explain it!

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Re: Will the Trump Prophecies bring legitimacy to Christianity?

#642  Postby scott1328 » Jan 17, 2022 2:39 pm

I suppose we should be grateful that this one confines itself to a couple threads. The question is: why is this incessant preaching tolerated?
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Re: Will the Trump Prophecies bring legitimacy to Christianity?

#643  Postby Spearthrower » Jan 17, 2022 4:18 pm

Fire off an ask - I am similarly intrigued to know whether Trev's posting record is ushering him onwards to a new bridge to hide under.
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Re: Will the Trump Prophecies bring legitimacy to Christianity?

#644  Postby truelgbt » Jan 17, 2022 9:22 pm

scott1328 wrote:I suppose we should be grateful that this one confines itself to a couple threads. The question is: why is this incessant preaching tolerated?


How do you propose I should post Christian prophecies WITHOUT having it fall under YOUR definition of 'preaching'?

Remember, Christian prophecies are to be fully understood WITHIN THE CONTEXT of the Bible and the God who is providing the prophecy and causing the predicted future event to occur. Context is everything.

Without this context, it would no longer be a Christian prophecy but simply a random statement about the future, e.g. "I think this or that will happen in the future..." which certainly is NOT Christian prophecy.

So before we say Christian prophecy is, "nothing but more preaching", we need to understand the important components of prophecy.

Components of Christian prophecies include much more than just what will happen in the future. They include:

1) How the prophecy is related to Biblical principles. This shows God's consistency and how the future event in the prophecy is not just a unilateral decision made on a whim by a capricious god. Without this component, atheists would simply accuse Christians of believing in a god who made no sense - ooops, they already do that, lol. Atheists demand answers but also want to ban the answers, lol.

2) Why God is intervening in the affairs of mankind at this time and how it relates to modern events already occurring.

3) How the predicted future event relates to previous prophetic events which have already occurred. This Bible principle is from Ecclesiastes 1:9: "What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun." This verse tells us God causes certain prophetic events to happen over and over again throughout time so when people see events repeat, they begin to understand that God is in control. Even secular historians benefit from this.

If Christian prophecy is not understood and explained with these components in mind, we are missing the whole point, in which case, why discuss Christian prophecy at all? The forum rules should state "Christian prophecies not allowed." (but we still consider ourselves to be rational and honestly skeptical, yeah right).

I also encourage you to give the moderators "an ask" to ban me. But while you're at it, please don't forget to ask them to ban the others who have directed much cussing, name-calling, and ad-hominems toward me (OOPS! That would absolutely decimate this forum, lol - we would need to rename this forum "Lonely Planet")

Finally, if you want to ban Christian Prophecy, you will also need to consider renaming this forum: "Atheist Echo Chamber" or "Monolythic Atheist Society" or "For Atheist Ideas Only" but as for Rational or Skeptical, those descriptives would no longer apply here because both of those qualities require a certain openness of mind and a certain level of 'toleration' of other views which might be completely incompatible with atheism (I assume the name Rational Skepticism was chosen to indicate this forum was more than just about atheism but maybe I was wrong).

So, please give just one example of a hypothetical 'Christian prophecy' which is acceptable to you which I should try to emulate, but is still understandable and recognizable as a Christian prophecy and not simply a generic prediction. Just one example.
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Re: Will the Trump Prophecies bring legitimacy to Christianity?

#645  Postby hackenslash » Jan 17, 2022 9:41 pm

truelgbt wrote:How do you propose I should post Christian prophecies WITHOUT having it fall under YOUR definition of 'preaching'?


Establish the divinity and infallibility of the prophet by rigorous means. Or do you not think that posting your so-called prophecies is anything other than preaching?

You do get that the only people reading your dreck here are the ones laughing at the inanity of it, right? You don't actually think anybody here takes you seriously or learns anything about anything other than your mental state by the deranged inanity you post, do you?

Honestly, I've left things in the toilet bowl with more insight into the future than any of the moronic mouth-breathers from whom you take your cues.

Remember, Christian prophecies are to be fully understood WITHIN THE CONTEXT of the Bible and the God who is providing the prophecy and causing the predicted future event to occur.


Slight problem, the bible disproves the same god it describes, as a simple matter of logical necessity. That book and that deity cannot possibly cohabit the same universe. Yahweh is a deranged fantasy, dreamt up by fuckwits more fuckwitted than you.

And you bought it.
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Re: Will the Trump Prophecies bring legitimacy to Christianity?

#646  Postby Spearthrower » Jan 17, 2022 9:51 pm

truelgbt wrote:
scott1328 wrote:I suppose we should be grateful that this one confines itself to a couple threads. The question is: why is this incessant preaching tolerated?


How do you propose I should post Christian prophecies WITHOUT having it fall under YOUR definition of 'preaching'?


They're not Christian prophecies, so the problem is that it's all bullshit from the ground up.

Rather, this is basically Qanon level of mytho-political insanity you're shitting out here assuming people to have to lump it, enjoying being a twat to a captive audience.

In reality, you've not got unlimited rights to be a total fuckwit to people online, perhaps least the user agreement you registered here under, but your actions result in consequences Trev.

So there is one simple fucking answer for you - how would the majority of people on this forum propose you post this drivel? Answer: somewhere else.

This isn't a forum for your brand of inane raving - in reality, I doubt there's anywhere that would welcome someone as rabid as you - it's a forum for rational thinking and skepticism, and you're asserting that magical quasi-divine predictions of the future should be treated as fact. No fucking way chap. It's bullshit, save yourself the effort of writing this bollocks and go do something useful with your life.
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Re: Will the Trump Prophecies bring legitimacy to Christianity?

#647  Postby truelgbt » Jan 18, 2022 3:25 am

Just for the record, I have never complained to the moderators about the cussing, name-calling, or ad-hominems toward me on this forum, EVER. I choose not to resolve our differences in this fashion.

I do not have a 'Child - Mother' Complex, meaning: Child (forum member) and Mother (moderator) perception where I run to momma because my 'feelings were hurt' or I was 'offended' by another member. In my private life, neither have I ever gone to a supervisor in the workplace to resolve issues I have had with others.

IMHO, adults discuss their differences face-to-face, or in this case, member to member. We don't argue; we discuss. So with this attitude, I am amenable to change my posts to make them 'less objectionable'. However, to make sure I know exactly how you want me to carry out this task, I need to have an example from you which I can use as a template.

I will use YOUR template based on YOUR example which YOU provide. Fair enough?

Please provide an example of a hypothetical Christian prophecy which preserves its distinct Christian context. This is important because we are not discussing simple-minded generic predictions on this thread - which you can get from any palm reader, psychic, or fortune teller in your town.

So please, just one example from you is all I ask.

I have no problems with answering honest questions as long as the inquiry is coming from a place of honest skepticism, which is what this forum is about. However, I suspect some members here view Biblical ideas and thoughts through the lens of prejudicial skepticism, which is not skepticism in its true sense at all.

Note: Please don't respond with: "I don't need to give you an example." This only reveals to us that you don't have an example to give - in which case the preferable response should be a humble, "I don't know".

Sometimes, we all need to practice saying "I don't know" which is anathema in the atheist community which has a 'know-it-all' reputation but when we really don't know, we need to stop pretending and admit "we don't know".
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Re: Will the Trump Prophecies bring legitimacy to Christianity?

#648  Postby truelgbt » Jan 18, 2022 3:35 am

hackenslash wrote:Establish the divinity and infallibility of the prophet by rigorous means.


Because the prophets have come out in droves these past 2 weeks (I've never seen anything like it) declaring the corruption exposures are to begin next month (February 2022) and greatly increase from then on, we will have to wait and see.

When we see the fulfillment of the prophecies as first-hand eyewitnesses ourselves, that will establish the source of the prophecies (which is NOT the prophets themselves) as from God because only God knows the future.

So now we wait.
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Re: Will the Trump Prophecies bring legitimacy to Christianity?

#649  Postby Hermit » Jan 18, 2022 4:03 am

truelgbt wrote:Please provide an example of a hypothetical Christian prophecy which preserves its distinct Christian context. This is important because we are not discussing simple-minded generic predictions on this thread - which you can get from any palm reader, psychic, or fortune teller in your town.

What is the point? I provided an actual biblical example of a prophesy nine days ago, and pointed out the problem with it, namely that the time it was meant to have been fulfilled passed uneventfully. You ignored it.


Hermit wrote:
truelgbt wrote:Jesus said in the last days "many will abandon the faith." His prophecy is coming true.

There is a problem with that prophecy, and you would have known, had you actually read the book you purport to quote from.The problem is that the "last days" were prophesied to occur during his disciples' life time.

"Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened." [Matthew 24: 32-34]

Christians have been trained to ignore those verses because the prophesy is a manifest failure. They were trained to focus on a following verse [Matthew 24: 36] instead: “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." Note the "day or hour" bit. It does nothing to contradict Matthew 24: 32-34.
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Re: Will the Trump Prophecies bring legitimacy to Christianity?

#650  Postby The_Metatron » Jan 18, 2022 4:33 am

truelgbt wrote:
scott1328 wrote:I suppose we should be grateful that this one confines itself to a couple threads. The question is: why is this incessant preaching tolerated?


How do you propose I should post Christian prophecies WITHOUT having it fall under YOUR definition of 'preaching'?

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Remember, Christian prophecies are to be fully understood WITHIN THE CONTEXT of the Bible and the God who is providing the prophecy and causing the predicted future event to occur. Context is everything.

Without this context, it would no longer be a Christian prophecy but simply a random statement about the future, e.g. "I think this or that will happen in the future..." which certainly is NOT Christian prophecy.

So before we say Christian prophecy is, "nothing but more preaching", we need to understand the important components of prophecy.

Components of Christian prophecies include much more than just what will happen in the future. They include:

1) How the prophecy is related to Biblical principles. This shows God's consistency and how the future event in the prophecy is not just a unilateral decision made on a whim by a capricious god. Without this component, atheists would simply accuse Christians of believing in a god who made no sense - ooops, they already do that, lol. Atheists demand answers but also want to ban the answers, lol.

2) Why God is intervening in the affairs of mankind at this time and how it relates to modern events already occurring.

3) How the predicted future event relates to previous prophetic events which have already occurred. This Bible principle is from Ecclesiastes 1:9: "What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun." This verse tells us God causes certain prophetic events to happen over and over again throughout time so when people see events repeat, they begin to understand that God is in control. Even secular historians benefit from this.

If Christian prophecy is not understood and explained with these components in mind, we are missing the whole point, in which case, why discuss Christian prophecy at all? The forum rules should state "Christian prophecies not allowed." (but we still consider ourselves to be rational and honestly skeptical, yeah right).

I also encourage you to give the moderators "an ask" to ban me. But while you're at it, please don't forget to ask them to ban the others who have directed much cussing, name-calling, and ad-hominems toward me (OOPS! That would absolutely decimate this forum, lol - we would need to rename this forum "Lonely Planet")

Finally, if you want to ban Christian Prophecy, you will also need to consider renaming this forum: "Atheist Echo Chamber" or "Monolythic Atheist Society" or "For Atheist Ideas Only" but as for Rational or Skeptical, those descriptives would no longer apply here because both of those qualities require a certain openness of mind and a certain level of 'toleration' of other views which might be completely incompatible with atheism (I assume the name Rational Skepticism was chosen to indicate this forum was more than just about atheism but maybe I was wrong).

So, please give just one example of a hypothetical 'Christian prophecy' which is acceptable to you which I should try to emulate, but is still understandable and recognizable as a Christian prophecy and not simply a generic prediction. Just one example.

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Re: Will the Trump Prophecies bring legitimacy to Christianity?

#651  Postby truelgbt » Jan 18, 2022 4:40 am

Hermit wrote:There is a problem with that prophecy, and you would have known, had you actually read the book you purport to quote from. The problem is that the "last days" were prophesied to occur during his disciples' life time.

"Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened." [Matthew 24: 32-34]

Christians have been trained to ignore those verses because the prophesy is a manifest failure. They were trained to focus on a following verse [Matthew 24: 36] instead: “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." Note the "day or hour" bit. It does nothing to contradict Matthew 24: 32-34.


Answer: No. The following answers are supported by the vast majority of those who study end time events.

1) "The fig tree" is largely understood as Israel.

2) "As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out" is largely understood as Israel coming unto its own as a nation again and not under the rule of another kingdom. This took place in May 14, 1948 when Israel officially became an independent nation.

3) "this generation will certainly not pass away..." This is largely understood as the generation of people who exist during the May 14, 1948 date. Depending on the timing of the writing of a specific book in the O.T., a generation can be 100 years. This would mean everyone born around May 14, 1948 + 100 years implies the "last days" can extend from 1948 to 2048.

4) "...until ALL these things happen." includes the following events in Matthew 24:29-31:

4a) "the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky..."
Have we seen these celestial phenomena yet? Nope.

4b) "they will see the Son of Man (Jesus in His resurrected and glorified body) coming on the clouds of the sky with great power and great glory..." Have we seen any of this yet? Nope.

4c) "He (God) will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather His elect (the saints) from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other." Have we heard the trumpet sound in the sky? Sometimes on YouTube, but the saints are still here so the rapture has not taken place yet.
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Re: Will the Trump Prophecies bring legitimacy to Christianity?

#652  Postby Hermit » Jan 18, 2022 5:00 am

truelgbt wrote:"this generation will certainly not pass away..." This is largely understood as the generation of people who exist during the May 14, 1948 date.

Of course! Why didn't I think of this? It should have been the first thing to come to my mind.

Now that you mention the date, May 14, 1948, it is so obvious in light of Jesus saying "this generation will certainly not pass away...". The context is all there, leaving the that date the only one which could possibly be largely understood. Silly me.

truelgbt wrote:a generation can be 100 years

This too makes sense. Every historian is well aware of such longevity then and now.
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Re: Will the Trump Prophecies bring legitimacy to Christianity?

#653  Postby The_Piper » Jan 18, 2022 5:03 am

The stars aren't actually in the sky, they're light years away and not bound by the sun's gravity. The sky will evaporate and blow away long before most of the other stars run out of fuel. Unless god siphons their fuel tanks for his fleet of tie fighters. :shifty:
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Re: Will the Trump Prophecies bring legitimacy to Christianity?

#654  Postby Spearthrower » Jan 18, 2022 5:20 am

truelgbt wrote:Just for the record, I have never complained to the moderators about the cussing, name-calling, or ad-hominems toward me on this forum, EVER. I choose not to resolve our differences in this fashion.


Cussing is a childish idea - there is no rule against using words you deem unsuitable because, and please pay close attention here: you're not the fucking arbiter.
Ad-hominem is a rhetorical strategy/fallacy, so I have no idea quite why this is meant to be relevant to the moderators - they're not moderating the standards of discourse, else you'd have been out on your arse a long time ago.

As for the purported 'name-calling', spade is a spade, chap. If you're going to engage in bigotry, then don't whine when you're rightly labeled a bigot.



truelgbt wrote:JI do not have a 'Child - Mother' Complex, meaning: Child (forum member) and Mother (moderator) perception where I run to momma because my 'feelings were hurt' or I was 'offended' by another member. In my private life, neither have I ever gone to a supervisor in the workplace to resolve issues I have had with others.


It's almost like you're the hero of your own story.


truelgbt wrote:JIMHO, adults discuss their differences face-to-face, or in this case, member to member. We don't argue; we discuss. So with this attitude, I am amenable to change my posts to make them 'less objectionable'. However, to make sure I know exactly how you want me to carry out this task, I need to have an example from you which I can use as a template.


What a load of contrived shite, Trev.


truelgbt wrote:JI will use YOUR template based on YOUR example which YOU provide. Fair enough?


Template: Go Away


truelgbt wrote:JPlease provide an example of a hypothetical Christian prophecy which preserves its distinct Christian context. This is important because we are not discussing simple-minded generic predictions on this thread - which you can get from any palm reader, psychic, or fortune teller in your town.


They're exactly the same - neither has the slightest legitimacy, and only ardent believers suspend their skepticism to engage in wish-thinking.

You're also running afoul of Christian strictures with your false prophesying here, Trev.


truelgbt wrote:
I have no problems with answering honest questions as long as the inquiry is coming from a place of honest skepticism, which is what this forum is about.


There is no fucking way on this planet or any other that you get to pretend that YOU define what this forum is about.


truelgbt wrote: However, I suspect some members here view Biblical ideas and thoughts through the lens of prejudicial skepticism, which is not skepticism in its true sense at all.


What you're engaging in here has very little to do with the Bible - the great majority of it is you engaging is spiteful little bigotry to strangers on the internet, and apparently finding pleasure in it too. :roll:



truelgbt wrote:Note: Please don't respond with: "I don't need to give you an example." This only reveals to us that you don't have an example to give - in which case the preferable response should be a humble, "I don't know".


Who is 'us'? You speak for no one else here, Trev - not one single other person. Instead, what you're demanding is, yet again, to be the fucking judge and jury. You can shove that right back whence you extruded it.




truelgbt wrote:Sometimes, we all need to practice saying "I don't know" which is anathema in the atheist community which has a 'know-it-all' reputation but when we really don't know, we need to stop pretending and admit "we don't know".


Go away.
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Re: Will the Trump Prophecies bring legitimacy to Christianity?

#655  Postby Spearthrower » Jan 18, 2022 5:21 am

truelgbt wrote:
hackenslash wrote:Establish the divinity and infallibility of the prophet by rigorous means.


Because the prophets have come out in droves these past 2 weeks (I've never seen anything like it) declaring the corruption exposures are to begin next month (February 2022) and greatly increase from then on, we will have to wait and see.

When we see the fulfillment of the prophecies as first-hand eyewitnesses ourselves, that will establish the source of the prophecies (which is NOT the prophets themselves) as from God because only God knows the future.

So now we wait.



The only thing really left to know is whether you're actively lying to us, or are actually this credulous yourself.
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Re: Will the Trump Prophecies bring legitimacy to Christianity?

#656  Postby Spearthrower » Jan 18, 2022 5:25 am

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... ng/610567/

The Prophecies of Q

American conspiracy theories are entering a dangerous new phase.



Endless brainless 'prophecies' failing time and time again, and still we have people like you falling over yourself to lend credence to anything that even slightly suggests it may corroborate your political desires.

It's demented, Trev. It's demented that you think like this. It's demented that you would tell other people that you think like this. It's demented that you choose to tell other people on a forum specifically oriented to rationality and skepticism and you actually expect to be lent some respect or something. Pfff. Clueless.
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Re: Will the Trump Prophecies bring legitimacy to Christianity?

#657  Postby hackenslash » Jan 18, 2022 8:59 am

truelgbt wrote:
hackenslash wrote:Establish the divinity and infallibility of the prophet by rigorous means.


Because the prophets have come out in droves these past 2 weeks (I've never seen anything like it) declaring the corruption exposures are to begin next month (February 2022) and greatly increase from then on, we will have to wait and see.

When we see the fulfillment of the prophecies as first-hand eyewitnesses ourselves, that will establish the source of the prophecies (which is NOT the prophets themselves) as from God because only God knows the future.

So now we wait.


It would have been quicker to type 'I can't', which would have been true.

There's no such thing as prophecy. The nearest thing to actual prophecy on the table is something you reject wholesale.
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Re: Will the Trump Prophecies bring legitimacy to Christianity?

#658  Postby BlackBart » Jan 18, 2022 9:06 am

So, you want your "prophecies" to be discussed in a rational and serious manner do you Trev? Good. You can start by citing your sources then.
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Re: Will the Trump Prophecies bring legitimacy to Christianity?

#659  Postby hackenslash » Jan 18, 2022 9:25 am

truelgbt wrote: "this generation will certainly not pass away..." This is largely understood as the generation of people who exist during the May 14, 1948 date.


Understood by whom? From where did you get this information?

Depending on the timing of the writing of a specific book in the O.T.,


Ummm... Matthew isn't in the OT, it's the first book in the NT.

a generation can be 100 years.


No, a generation is pretty much universally understood as approximately 25 years because, wait for it, that's the average generational turnaround for humans. In fact, generations in biblical times were, for the most part, somewhat less, because of all the legitimised paedophilia.

This would mean everyone born around May 14, 1948 + 100 years implies the "last days" can extend from 1948 to 2048.


That's what happens when your metric is magical.
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Re: Will the Trump Prophecies bring legitimacy to Christianity?

#660  Postby Cito di Pense » Jan 18, 2022 10:14 am

When I want to listen to prophetic-seeming sounds, I turn to this guy:



Ain't nothin' left here, partner
Just the dust of a plague that has left this whole town afraid
From now on, this'll be where you're from
Let the dead bury the dead, your time will come
Let hot iron glow as he raised the shade.


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