Advice for Believers

Christianity, Islam, Other Religions & Belief Systems.

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Re: Advice for Believers

#21  Postby shh » Mar 24, 2010 6:35 pm

ah, ty. Punch is awesome.:cheers:
wiki wrote: despite the fact that chocolate is not a fruit[citation needed]
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Re: Advice for Believers

#22  Postby DanDare » May 08, 2010 1:29 pm

As an atheist I have greatly enjoyed many dialogues with jerome over at RD.net and I think his advice is good. I hope it encourages more believers to come here and argue their corner. There are too few that do, the rest becoming what are known here as "chew toys". Although I like a chew from time to time I by far prefer reasoned discourse.
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Re: Advice for Believers

#23  Postby scruffy » Jun 25, 2010 9:49 pm

jerome wrote: ...I always say I have only one argument for my Anglicanism, and I'm it.


:ask:
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Re: Advice for Believers

#24  Postby Moonwatcher » Sep 20, 2010 11:16 pm

jaredennisclark wrote:
jerome wrote: ...I always say I have only one argument for my Anglicanism, and I'm it.


:ask:


Well, it worked on me. I believe Jerome exists and I believe he's an Anglican. :naughty2:

Maybe its just me but I've never seen Jerome engage in a real debate about whether or not Christianity is literally true. Obviously, he believes it is. But I don't know that I've ever seen him argue about that.

What he does is discuss things like theological points or historical points that one can appeal to evidence for such as what really happened at such and such an Ecclesiastical council or whether there was or was not a historical Jesus. I don't think he's a literalist about every detail but certainly he is about some key New Testamant stuff.

But, for the most part, I would say he only debates or discusses things that the majority of the board would agree there is any debate about. For instance, we all know there was a Council of Nicea. That's a fact. People debate what happened there. Jerome slams down hard evidence of what happened. Likewise with the historical Jesus argument. This is a lively and often angry debate even amongst atheists.

My advice would be to follow Jerome's example (to the best of my recollection). Don't start useless (except for the entertainment value) threads where you make claims for which there is no supporting evidence or for which you may think there is supporting evidence by your definitions but clearly its been done before and its not going to fly by accepted standards of falsifiable evidence. Instead, discuss things that would be of interest to some of us atheists and that a significant number of people here would admit there is evidence enough for that its debatable.

Oh also, stay far, far away from philosophy threads if the real intent is just to use mental gymnastics to support a religious belief.
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Re: Advice for Believers

#25  Postby Bud's Brain » Sep 24, 2010 10:10 am

Hey, Jerome
I think your threads are good. What I'm struck by when reading your threads is not a bible, but the thought that goes into your faith. Your faith has absolutely nothing to do with me or anyone else, but your comments do and that's what people respond to.

Another thing I've noticed, is that it's easy for atheists to attack the believer threads, mainly because they're a load of used nappy content - but disparaging remarks can sometimes skate close to trolling, when a comment is made and then the thread is dumped.

I'm going to hate myself later for saying this, but theists or whatever are equally allowed to cry 'troll'.
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Re: Advice for Believers

#26  Postby Joemailman » Sep 25, 2010 12:37 pm

I do advocate that the only good advice for believers is to be honest and finally admit that there is not one scrap of evidence for their claims of gods, ghosts, devils, angels or heavens and hells. Not one. Only second, third, fourth, etc. hand accounts of what was seen or experienced by someone that they do not know. Anything less than this is utter dishonesty and wishful thinking.
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Re: Advice for Believers

#27  Postby petwo » Oct 20, 2010 12:20 am

Isn't the fact that one can only believe in God the same as saying no one actually knows anything to confirm He's real?
I swear I'm an atheist not because I don't believe in God but because I don't believe the people who do.
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Re: Advice for Believers

#28  Postby Ronja » Dec 10, 2010 11:28 am

jerome wrote:This used to live on another board...

Jerome, I realized that I have recommended this post to other people, also outside this site, and bookmarked it as model for advice on online behavior for freshmen students in large online learning groups (not related to world view in any manner), but never got around to thank you for your insightful, genuine and wise post.

So: Thank you! :thumbup: :clap: :cheers:
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Re: Advice for Believers

#29  Postby jerome » Dec 13, 2010 12:14 am

Ronja, thats relly sweet of you to say thanks (and completely unecessary) and I'm glad my babblings have been of some use to someone! There was a part two to it (on the RDF), but for some reason I never got round to adding it. I might edit it in one day if you think it's vaguely useful. I think forum communcations come down to one thing - play nice - but that can be hard when things get heated!

j x
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Re: Advice for Believers

#30  Postby Driftwood » Dec 27, 2010 2:22 am

Just wanting to say I find your OP to be reasonable, sound and open minded. Of course, I think most people would like to have a real discussion, but you know the formula for the internets, and that being the case, I am even more heartened by your original post. As a former theist (Evangelical Minister), I know that there are more decent and honest believers like you out there, and so it's nice to see them appear here willing to give and take, rather than crucify themselves in the name of self righteousness (something I saw on message boards even back when I believed).

So kudos to you, if I may, for your sane entreaty. Let's hope people listen to it.
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Re: Advice for Believers

#31  Postby Skinny Puppy » Jan 16, 2011 9:44 pm

As an ex-fundie I enjoy engaging (intelligently) with theists. They have their belief system and should be able to engage any of us in a civil manner. We too must return that civility.

Neither side needs to cow-tow or side-step issues, they’re fascinating to discuss, and in reality, they can and do shape many peoples’ lives.

Preaching of course is a no-no, but explaining why you believe, your personal experiences and so on do make for an interesting exchanges of viewpoints.

As long as a poster doesn’t preach hellfire and damnation then they should be treated (like any member here) with respect.
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Re: Advice for Believers

#32  Postby Byron » Feb 16, 2011 9:26 pm

Skinny Puppy wrote:As long as a poster doesn’t preach hellfire and damnation then they should be treated (like any member here) with respect.

As the hellfire folks keep telling us, they're only doing it 'cause they love us. ( :naughty: @ hellfire folks.)

I'd like a few more orthodox believers around here for the purposes of debate. The jackpot would be a few knurled old Jesuits. That would make for some great arguments. :smoke:
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Re: Advice for Believers

#33  Postby THWOTH » Feb 28, 2011 5:56 pm

Anyone got the Pope's email? He's always looking to engage in open dialogue with secularists. Perhaps Jerome could ask the invisible man upstairs to pass a message next time He's talking with His Eminence (they must talk every week, at least).
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Re: Advice for Believers

#34  Postby DanDare » Mar 01, 2011 10:20 am

Jerome loves us. He's a mod now. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.......we're doomed. ;)
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Re: Advice for Believers

#35  Postby arugula » May 18, 2011 11:59 pm

Moonwatcher wrote:Maybe its just me but I've never seen Jerome engage in a real debate about whether or not Christianity is literally true. Obviously, he believes it is. But I don't know that I've ever seen him argue about that.

Very little interaction with jerome on my part, but the little I've had left me with the same impression: that of a vague defense of belief for belief's sake, but not much conviction, & a tendency to abandon discussion. I'm mainly remembering a back-and-forth on the RDF about Jesus' alleged sacrifice. The brief dialogue ended when I asked him if, given that it was precisely planned, could Jesus actually have avoided his own death-sacrifice?
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Re: Advice for Believers

#36  Postby jerome » May 19, 2011 10:59 am

That sounds interesting and I'm sorry I lost track od the discussion. Can you reference the thread and I'll happily take it up on this forum :)
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Re: Advice for Believers

#37  Postby THWOTH » May 19, 2011 11:43 am

That's torn it arugula! :D
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Re: Advice for Believers

#38  Postby arugula » May 20, 2011 2:29 am

I stand corrected.

I somehow managed to find the thread I "remembered", but it wasn't a discussion with jerome, but someone else with an OT prophet's name. I guess my mind blurred you two together.

Sorries! :scratch: <3
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Re: Advice for Believers

#39  Postby THWOTH » May 20, 2011 11:34 am

How fallible the brain is eh? You didn't confused Jerome for the numpty Elijah did you?

You really shouldn't lump all crackpots together like that.



:mrgreen:
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Re: Advice for Believers

#40  Postby arugula » May 20, 2011 8:17 pm

Nay, not Elijah... but the sugardaddy of all prophets, Isaiah. (Sorry, Mo'...)
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