Advice for Believers

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Re: Advice for Believers

#61  Postby Nicko » Feb 16, 2012 6:54 am

Lion IRC wrote:You didnt say...every proof of God ever invented has been "examined" on this site.

You said every single one had been "found to be invalid, unsound or both."


Every argument made with the intent of demonstrating God's existence on this site to date has been successfully rebutted. Perhaps you feel one or more of the discussions are not over. Fair enough. Return to the relevant thread and continue the discussion. If you think you have a new argument, no one will be more interested to hear it than me; start a thread.

If you try to have it out here, the mods will just split the thread.

And you werent speaking on your own behalf either were you.


I'm not sure what you are accusing me of.

My only intent in posting in this thread was to help new theists avoid the ridicule some theistic members bring upon their own heads with their contemptible discoursive habits.
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Re: Advice for Believers

#62  Postby rainbow » Feb 16, 2012 11:55 am

Nicko wrote:
Lion IRC wrote:You didnt say...every proof of God ever invented has been "examined" on this site.

You said every single one had been "found to be invalid, unsound or both."


Every argument made with the intent of demonstrating God's existence on this site to date has been successfully rebutted.

Even so, every argument made with the intent of demonstrating God's non-existence on this site to date has been successfully rebutted.
Having said that a Belief requires nothing more than Faith.
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Re: Advice for Believers

#63  Postby Spearthrower » Feb 16, 2012 12:03 pm

Lion IRC wrote:
No. It's not good advice because it's based on something which is ITSELF an unsubstantiated claim - an opinion.
"Pretty much every "proof" of God ever invented has been discussed already and found to be invalid, unsound or both."


You mean which ones? Which ones have been found to be substantiated? I clearly didn't get the memo that everyone in the world now knows about one particular god and universally agree of its existence - how pray tell did this come about? Did a hand appear in the heaven and a boomy voice in the clouds? I know I overslept a bit this morning, but I wasn't expecting to miss anything this momentous.


Lion IRC wrote:Beware of claims which rest on the logical fallacy...everybody knows... everyone agrees with...we all blah blah blah...


Wow! Nice red herring Lion! Where does it say in the text you're supposedly citing that 'everyone knows'? The only way in which you've mastered logical fallacies is in the production of them.


Lion IRC wrote:I am as entitled to be skeptical of atheism - the no god hypothesis - as I am to be skeptical of any other unsupported theory.


Only, just by saying it like that, you show that you've got no comprehension of the topic. A null hypothesis is default until data shows otherwise. No one is 'skeptical' of the null hypothesis - it's just sitting there waiting to be shown wrong.

You've also made the mistake of saying that atheism is a theory, or that it should be supported. In essence, you've provided the perfect counterpart to this thread - a role model for the kind of erroneous bollocks we routinely face from believers such as yourself, and which intelligent believers would do well to avoid if their objective here is to actually engage in the other side's points, rather than flail around at strawmen.
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Re: Advice for Believers

#64  Postby Spearthrower » Feb 16, 2012 12:03 pm

Lion IRC wrote:
Fallible wrote:Blah hypothesis, blah theory...just more cack-handed nonsense. :sigh:


EXACTLY!



Exactly. :crazy:
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Re: Advice for Believers

#65  Postby Spearthrower » Feb 16, 2012 12:05 pm

Lion IRC wrote:You didnt say...every proof of God ever invented has been "examined" on this site.

You said every single one had been "found to be invalid, unsound or both."

And you werent speaking on your own behalf either were you.



Simple to disprove: you just need to provide a single black swan, Lion.

Were you going to do that, or just talk a load of bollocks again?
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Re: Advice for Believers

#66  Postby Spearthrower » Feb 16, 2012 12:06 pm

rainbow wrote:
trevp wrote:
Spearthrower wrote:
rainbow wrote:

Can't they just ignore the question?



Why don't you write some advice on how to post like Rainbow?

Oh, that would present some problems, wouldn't it?


Or would it?


I can't say. I usually ignore Spear, so I'm not inclined to reply.


Indeed - some people are rather jealous. If only you could extend it out to say... everyone on this site... then I think we'd all be a lot happier.

rainbow wrote:
(PS - how am I doing Rainbow?)

Really good.


That should be:

really good?

Or

It lacks badness?

Well, I guess that being a master does not mean being a good teacher.
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Re: Advice for Believers

#67  Postby Spearthrower » Feb 16, 2012 12:09 pm

rainbow wrote:
Nicko wrote:
Lion IRC wrote:You didnt say...every proof of God ever invented has been "examined" on this site.

You said every single one had been "found to be invalid, unsound or both."


Every argument made with the intent of demonstrating God's existence on this site to date has been successfully rebutted.

Even so, every argument made with the intent of demonstrating God's non-existence on this site to date has been successfully rebutted.


Armpit-laden drivel as usual, Rainbow.

rainbow wrote:Having said that a Belief requires nothing more than Faith.


Quite - why don't you tell us about yours instead of cowering behind your socratic irony?
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Re: Advice for Believers

#68  Postby Nicko » Feb 16, 2012 12:24 pm

In case any theists have just joined us, this is the sort of response that not following the advice given in this thread tends to engender.
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Re: Advice for Believers

#69  Postby Nicko » Feb 16, 2012 1:05 pm

rainbow wrote:Even so, every argument made with the intent of demonstrating God's non-existence on this site to date has been successfully rebutted.


Such an argument would constitute a position of "strong" or "positive" atheism, which is only a subsection of atheism proper (no matter how many theists would prefer it as the definition of all atheism). It would therefore not be expressed by the majority of atheists here. It would most likely appear in a thread entitled "The Best Arguments for Strong Atheism". As it happened, I presented in that thread an argument (from an essay by another member) that the supernatural is an incoherent concept. It remains unrefuted.

Which you are fully aware of as you are a "contributor" to that thread and acknowledged that the argument had been presented without even attempting a rebuttal, much less succeeding as you have falsely claimed.

Having said that a Belief requires nothing more than Faith.


Actually, that was my main point in my original piece of advice in this thread. If a person's belief is based upon faith, they should not pretend that it is based on reason. But equally, they should not expect that "faith" (belief in the absence of evidence or reason) is going to convince anyone, and should expect to receive some "rude" replies if they try either on a site called "Rational Skepticism".

@Jerome:
I am really sorry about how this has turned out mate. I had no intention of starting a shitfight in your thread.
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Re: Advice for Believers

#70  Postby Fallible » Feb 16, 2012 1:47 pm

Lion IRC wrote:
Fallible wrote:Blah hypothesis, blah theory...just more cack-handed nonsense. :sigh:


EXACTLY!


:what: At least you agree with my assessment of your post, I suppose...
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Re: Advice for Believers

#71  Postby John Platko » Nov 09, 2013 6:43 pm

Nicko wrote:
rainbow wrote:Even so, every argument made with the intent of demonstrating God's non-existence on this site to date has been successfully rebutted.


Such an argument would constitute a position of "strong" or "positive" atheism, which is only a subsection of atheism proper (no matter how many theists would prefer it as the definition of all atheism). It would therefore not be expressed by the majority of atheists here. It would most likely appear in a thread entitled "The Best Arguments for Strong Atheism". As it happened, I presented in that thread an argument (from an essay by another member) that the supernatural is an incoherent concept. It remains unrefuted.

Which you are fully aware of as you are a "contributor" to that thread and acknowledged that the argument had been presented without even attempting a rebuttal, much less succeeding as you have falsely claimed.

Having said that a Belief requires nothing more than Faith.


Actually, that was my main point in my original piece of advice in this thread. If a person's belief is based upon faith, they should not pretend that it is based on reason. But equally, they should not expect that "faith" (belief in the absence of evidence or reason) is going to convince anyone, and should expect to receive some "rude" replies if they try either on a site called "Rational Skepticism".



Why should they expect a "rude" reply instead of a reply which politely points out the flaw in their reasoning?
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Re: Advice for Believers

#72  Postby hackenslash » Nov 09, 2013 6:45 pm

Because fuck them, that's why.
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Re: Advice for Believers

#73  Postby stijndeloose » Nov 09, 2013 7:04 pm

John Platko wrote:Why should they expect a "rude" reply instead of a reply which politely points out the flaw in their reasoning?


All too often, for theists, "pointing out the flaws in their reasoning" IS rude. Apart from that, most, if not all, of those flaws have been pointed out just about 9485729835729 times here.
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Re: Advice for Believers

#74  Postby John Platko » Nov 09, 2013 7:18 pm

stijndeloose wrote:
John Platko wrote:Why should they expect a "rude" reply instead of a reply which politely points out the flaw in their reasoning?


All too often, for theists, "pointing out the flaws in their reasoning" IS rude. Apart from that, most, if not all, of those flaws have been pointed out just about 9485729835729 times here.


There's a difference between someone thinking you're being rude and actually being rude. The latter is irrational.
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Re: Advice for Believers

#75  Postby stijndeloose » Nov 09, 2013 7:33 pm

Hence the scare quotes. "Rude".
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Re: Advice for Believers

#76  Postby The_Metatron » Nov 09, 2013 7:35 pm

A theist scolding people about being irrational. Delicious.
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Check out Hack's blog, too. He writes good.
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Re: Advice for Believers

#77  Postby hackenslash » Nov 09, 2013 7:41 pm

John Platko wrote: The latter is irrational.


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Re: Advice for Believers

#78  Postby Matthew Shute » Nov 09, 2013 7:50 pm

Those with God on their side can have surprisingly thin skins, I've noticed. The armour of faith is a funny sort of armour; it can leave the wearer, ironically, hypersensitive to the slings and arrows of criticism: "You're just standing there, stark naked."
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Re: Advice for Believers

#79  Postby Regina » Nov 09, 2013 8:21 pm

Matthew Shute wrote:Those with God on their side can have surprisingly thin skins, I've noticed. The armour of faith is a funny sort of armour; it can leave the wearer, ironically, hypersensitive to the slings and arrows of criticism: "You're just standing there, stark naked."

It's easily explained why that is: believers tend to get beaten up (metaphorically speaking) for standing up for their gods but the gods in question can never be bothered to provide some concrete assistance. But not only that, the gods have a nasty way of punishing the faithful for no apparent reason when they kill them in their thousands during religious festivals, pilgrimages and religiously inspired wars. No wonder they are thin-skinned when their efforts are rewarded like that.
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Re: Advice for Believers

#80  Postby John Platko » Nov 09, 2013 8:22 pm

Matthew Shute wrote:Those with God on their side can have surprisingly thin skins, I've noticed. The armour of faith is a funny sort of armour; it can leave the wearer, ironically, hypersensitive to the slings and arrows of criticism: "You're just standing there, stark naked."


Sometimes "our" armor isn't as tough as we think it is. And "we" get hurt or hurt others in ways that The_Metatron likes to point out, even God can't fix. It's a good thing to keep in mind.

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