Advice for Believers

jerome · #1 by **jerome** » Feb 27, 2010 4:23 pm

This used to live on another board...

Very occasionally someone pm's me and asks for advice on how to survive and prosper on this board as a believer. I think to be honest they would be better asking any of the hordes of other theists who play an important and friendly role in the ongoing dialogue here. I seem to get singled out because I have been here a long time and post a lot, but I don't think I have that much useful to impart.

Still, here follows a little perhaps useful advice, or perhaps complete nonsense. You can judge for yourselves!

1. Participate. The only way to make friends and get to know people on the board is to participate. So you should not be constantly starting new threads about your pet ideas, while never responding to other peoples. You sure as anything should not "hit and run" - that is post a long challenge, then never log on again! This means you owe it to yourself and the community to play around in all the sub-forums. You should read other threads in your pet area, and be willing to jump on your fellows if they disagree. Even if you are a Creationist you may see other Creationists talking nonsense -- so say so, and explain why. There are no "sides" in a quest for truth. Honestly though, the key is participation -- open honest and friendly chatting, playful messing around, and getting to know folks. You don';t have to spend all your time on the board - but do step outside your own threads.

2. Be Yourself! This has three meanings --

i) don't try to be super spiritual, and never reveal your human weaknesses. It's silly. I feel comfortable in my online persona and swear an make terrible jokes from time to time, but I'm not "sucking up" -- I'm far worse in real life as those who have met me will attest! Human beings have weaknesses, lack knowledge of some areas, and are often wrong, and fancy people, and -- you get the idea. Be human not some mythical cyber-saint. Share a bit about your self, your problems, your hopes your fears. Don't give away so much you endanger yourself or set yourself up for iD theft though - just chat with mates. And don't tell us you have an IQ of 275 and the miss Joyful Prize for Raffia Work - one of the top respected scientists in the world in his field as far as I can make out posts on this forum, and yet has been modest enough to never tell anyone who he is. It is irrelevant to your arguments if you personally are an all singing all dancing polymath - I'm a often unemployed dude with an IQ of 100 and I manage.

ii) NEVER post someone else's arguments from another website unless you actually understand them, have thought about it, and can answer questions likely to arise. Just a give a link to the website, and say it interested you! Cut & pasting huge blocks of text is really frustrating: not only is it little more than plagiarism if you don't credit your source, but the person who writes a lengthy analysis or rebuttal is wasting their time as well, because if you can't discuss their critique you will just end up looking dumb and embarrassed.

iii) THE BEST ARGUMENT FOR RELIGION (not theism) is how you conduct yourself on this board. I always say I have only one argument for my Anglicanism, and I'm it. People often assume all theists are irrational, delusional, bigoted, fanatical and embrace blind faith while being intolerant wankers. The only way to refute that is by not being one - don't let us all down by being a stereotype! We all have things we don't know, and we all meet people on here who know way more than us - never fail to admit your ignorance, and concede you may be wrong. Learn! None of us are omniscient dudes, so even if we see no evidence for the opposing position, it may be that evidence exists outside our area of knowledge. Yes, even on the Mithras thing I admit I may be totally wrong -- if new evidence appears.

You can argue ferociously your corner, but don't belittle or judge those who differ, and always remember - you hold many thousands of beliefs about all manner of things, if not millions -- and many are wrong! So be friendly, open and honest, and show people religion does not make everyone the kind of loons claimed. This is not a sly tactic - if you are those things be them, there are plenty of bigots in this world, but if you are not, then let people realize that.

More to follow have to go out. Feel free to comment, and add your suggestions and advice!

have fun
j x

Sween · #2 by **Sween** » Mar 05, 2010 4:57 am

2.ii) I wish somebody would post a theological argument. Not seeing any yet.

Mick · #3 by **Mick** » Mar 06, 2010 5:06 pm

It's odd that the OP is directed toward theists. Indeed, just like some theists, it's not uncommon for some atheists to talk out of their ass, or take sides rather than pursue truth and be uncritical towards atheological or skeptical arguments. I'd also say similar things about arrogant attitudes, intolerance and so forth.

Atheists should understand that shit stinks in their neck of the woods, too.

God Bless,

Mick

stijndeloose · #4 by **stijndeloose** » Mar 06, 2010 11:37 pm

*** MODNOTE ***

Posts about Ray's "Celler Argument For God" have been moved here.

*** END MODNOTE ***

ray · #5 by **ray** » Mar 08, 2010 12:42 pm

RichieDickins wrote:

I wish somebody would post a theological argument. Not seeing any yet.

stijndeloose thought it best to not discuss deep stuff on this thead. He is the boss, so we have to go where he says:

general-faith/the-celler-argument-for-god-t1857.html

Thanks for your positive input.

:clap:

Spearthrower · #6 by **Spearthrower** » Mar 12, 2010 10:30 am

Mick wrote:It's odd that the OP is directed toward theists. Indeed, just like some theists, it's not uncommon for some atheists to talk out of their ass, or take sides rather than pursue truth and be uncritical towards atheological or skeptical arguments. I'd also say similar things about arrogant attitudes, intolerance and so forth.

Atheists should understand that shit stinks in their neck of the woods, too.

God Bless,

Mick

It might be wise if you asked questions instead of leaping to make judgments.

Jerome is a Christian who has spent many years with the lions, mostly comfortably, and he is passing on his knowledge to people like you, Ray and Paarsurvey at how to get the most out of your time here.

MoonLit · #7 by **MoonLit** » Mar 15, 2010 7:55 am

Mick wrote:It's odd that the OP is directed toward theists. Indeed, just like some theists, it's not uncommon for some atheists to talk out of their ass, or take sides rather than pursue truth and be uncritical towards atheological or skeptical arguments. I'd also say similar things about arrogant attitudes, intolerance and so forth.

Atheists should understand that shit stinks in their neck of the woods, too.

God Bless,

Mick

There's nothing odd about it, considering the kind of theists we attracted at RDF, and now here.

whe · #8 by **whe** » Mar 16, 2010 6:00 am

Say you'll have no truck with Fundies/bornagains/extremist/gay and women hating theists, giving good reasons, and I'll do my best to back you up/help you out..if you feel a bit vulnerable and jumped on. But I won't, if I sense its a ploy, and you're not being honest about that. But God help you if I find out later it's a con.

mmmcheezy · #9 by **mmmcheezy** » Mar 16, 2010 6:06 am

I think this was a very well-done post. Jerome, you're a brilliant poster, and you're also proof that we don't hate every theist that comes in here. Thank you for your sensitive posts, and thank you more for not attacking us and saying we're all going to hell

Shaker · **#10** by **Shaker** » Mar 16, 2010 11:01 pm

Mick wrote:It's odd that the OP is directed toward theists. Indeed, just like some theists, it's not uncommon for some atheists to talk out of their ass, or take sides rather than pursue truth and be uncritical towards atheological or skeptical arguments. I'd also say similar things about arrogant attitudes, intolerance and so forth.

Atheists should understand that shit stinks in their neck of the woods, too.
God Bless

And who said passive-aggressive was going out of style?

whe · **#11** by **whe** » Mar 16, 2010 11:15 pm

I always love any post that ends with 'God Bless'

Makes me feel kind of happy :clap:

py inside.

and a dawning awareness that that fart, I thought was just a fart in my knickers..was that oh so little bit more.

Ciarin · **#12** by **Ciarin** » Mar 17, 2010 5:35 am

hackenslash · **#13** by **hackenslash** » Mar 17, 2010 5:39 am

Ciarin wrote:ew

+1

You can keep the 'god bless', thanks. :lol:

Armageddo · **#14** by **Armageddo** » Mar 22, 2010 2:07 pm

Mick wrote:It's odd that the OP is directed toward theists. Indeed, just like some theists, it's not uncommon for some atheists to talk out of their ass, or take sides rather than pursue truth and be uncritical towards atheological or skeptical arguments. I'd also say similar things about arrogant attitudes, intolerance and so forth.

Atheists should understand that shit stinks in their neck of the woods, too.

God Bless,

Mick

Haha, a bit strong but I guess there's more than a grain of truth in that. :cheers:

shh · **#15** by **shh** » Mar 22, 2010 3:17 pm

Mick wrote:It's odd that the OP is directed toward theists.

I'm betting fewer atheists ask Jerome for advice on this issue. :naughty2:

I don't really have much advice to give here, I generally get on ok with the theists/religious people I've come across here.
I think the best attitude is to stick to your guns when you feel you have to, admit you're wrong when you are, and not kiss ass, or get hostile too much, and as Mick suggests that's applicable to atheists too.
Since you're posting helpful threads Jerome, maybe a thread on theists perception of the forum would be an idea? Might be risky wrt trolls, but might be worthwhile too. :think:

Ian Tattum · **#16** by **Ian Tattum** » Mar 22, 2010 3:42 pm

shh wrote:
Mick wrote:It's odd that the OP is directed toward theists.
I'm betting fewer atheists ask Jerome for advice on this issue.
I don't really have much advice to give here, I generally get on ok with the theists/religious people I've come across here.
I think the best attitude is to stick to your guns when you feel you have to, admit you're wrong when you are, and not kiss ass, or get hostile too much, and as Mick suggests that's applicable to atheists too.
Since you're posting helpful threads Jerome, maybe a thread on theists perception of the forum would be an idea? Might be risky wrt trolls, but might be worthwhile too.

With due apologies I find this forum a bit of a curate's egg :grin:

It is like wandering through a labyrinth in which you come upon a room full of drunks hurling molotov cocktails,so you rush through the exit only to stumble into a conclave of psychiatrists who gaze at you anxiously and then immediately start scribbling a diagnosis. The final room is fortunately just peopled by the scrupulously sceptical who ask probing but fair questions and gently shake their heads at all your answers.

shh · **#17** by **shh** » Mar 22, 2010 4:41 pm

lol With due apologies, I've never heard the phrase "curate's egg", but I take your point.

Ian Tattum · **#18** by **Ian Tattum** » Mar 22, 2010 5:02 pm

shh wrote:lol With due apologies, I've never heard the phrase "curate's egg", but I take your point.

Sorry I was being parochial again. It means good in parts" :cheers:

shh · **#19** by **shh** » Mar 22, 2010 7:28 pm

Ah, cool,new word for me.

Paul · **#20** by **Paul** » Mar 22, 2010 7:34 pm

shh wrote:lol With due apologies, I've never heard the phrase "curate's egg", but I take your point.

It originates from a cartoon originally published in Punch magazine in 1865 (wiki)