They're bowing Arnold!

NineBerry wrote:But they surely must have penises. With all the getting the daughters of man pregnant stuff and all...

Here is a quote from an expert on Angels - Billy Graham

The Bible also teaches us that angels are sexless. Jesus said that in heaven men “neither marry, nor are given marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven”. This may indicate that angels enjoy relationships that are far more thrilling and exciting than sex.

How do I know Billy Graham is an expert? He wrote a book on the very subject!

But this sort of explains the rise in popularity in Islam ... you know virgins 'n all

Agrippina wrote:Do you have to get a Phd in order to call yourself an "angelologist?" If so, then it must be the biggest bullshit degree ever. Worse than one in theology.

Theology's not that bad if you view it in the right light. Sure, it's the art of making shit up about made-up shit, but we're starting to get to a tertiary level in which many skeptics are studying theology at a serious level, so theology is becoming the history of what people made up about made-up shit, and what people thought about it!

Of course, the way that the apologists use the word, it's still just making shit up about made-up shit.

Matthew Shute wrote:The clown(s) who wrote the Book of Revelation - now he/she/they had imagination!

It's not so much the angels that stand out, but these things:

Revelation 4: 7-8 wrote:7 And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.

8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

Not the sense he/she was born with, but plenty of imagination, certainly!

The thing I really like about such writings is the context it provides for how people once thought about the forms of various living species. The idea that a creature could be discovered with the face of a human and body of a lion and be very closely similar to an organism with less limbs and a totally different head is very common. We don't see it often today, which I suppose might well be connected with the theory of evolution by natural selection, which predicts that 4 limbed animals won't spontaneously birth fully formed 6 limbed animals (say a human or horse with a giant pair of pigeon wings stuck on its back) on a regular basis and similar things. The only time I hear such predictions are people like Ray Comfort telling us about Crocoducks and the like.

Interesting note, Thommo. It does seem that Comfort is, in fact, making fun of his own religious forefathers.

Emmeline wrote:What a great thread for Christmas!

I know it's all bollocks but I love angels depicted in Renaissance & Victorian art

Oh, the fun part is, from the standpoint of art, they have much to recommend them. I'm simply sanguine enough to realise that what makes for pleasing paintings doesn't necessarily constitute fact. Though Burne-Jones was probably not the best choice to illustrate the aesthetics. Probably the best 19th century rendition was produced by William-Adolphe Bouguereau, in the form of Song of the Angels:

In Issac Asimov's occasional mystical/fantasy stories, he was careful to make elves and other winged creatures arthropods or insectoids. The reason is that all arthropods have an ancestral biamous [forked] limb structure. The inner limb branch tends to become organs for locomotion or feeding, depending on body segment, and the outer branch evolves into gill, book lung or wing structures.
Vertebrate bauplans have no such flexability, the only realistic option being the conversion of the forelimbs for flight by pterosaurs, bats and birds. When this happens, the ancestral roles for the forelimbs in vertebrates are lost.

Thus even if there angels, they would have to be arthropod in origin, not chordate. Thus humanoid-type angels are totally unrealistic, even in terms of fantasy.

HTH.

Darwinsbulldog wrote:In Issac Asimov's occasional mystical/fantasy stories, he was careful to make elves and other winged creatures arthropods or insectoids. The reason is that all arthropods have an ancestral biamous [forked] limb structure. The inner limb branch tends to become organs for locomotion or feeding, depending on body segment, and the outer branch evolves into gill, book lung or wing structures.
Vertebrate bauplans have no such flexability, the only realistic option being the conversion of the forelimbs for flight by pterosaurs, bats and birds. When this happens, the ancestral roles for the forelimbs in vertebrates are lost.

Thus even if there angels, they would have to be arthropod in origin, not chordate. Thus humanoid-type angels are totally unrealistic, even in terms of fantasy.

HTH.

You should submit this to the proceedings of the society for Angelology.

I'm guessing angel wings are based more off birds than insects, seeing as they're usually feathered

SafeAsMilk wrote:I'm guessing angel wings are based more off birds than insects, seeing as they're usually feathered

Of course in fantasy, the facts shouls never interfere with a good yarn!

Thommo wrote:

Darwinsbulldog wrote:In Issac Asimov's occasional mystical/fantasy stories, he was careful to make elves and other winged creatures arthropods or insectoids. The reason is that all arthropods have an ancestral biamous [forked] limb structure. The inner limb branch tends to become organs for locomotion or feeding, depending on body segment, and the outer branch evolves into gill, book lung or wing structures.
Vertebrate bauplans have no such flexability, the only realistic option being the conversion of the forelimbs for flight by pterosaurs, bats and birds. When this happens, the ancestral roles for the forelimbs in vertebrates are lost.

Thus even if there angels, they would have to be arthropod in origin, not chordate. Thus humanoid-type angels are totally unrealistic, even in terms of fantasy.

HTH.

You should submit this to the proceedings of the society for Angelology.

I am certainly pin-headed enough to qualify!

romansh wrote:

NineBerry wrote:But they surely must have penises. With all the getting the daughters of man pregnant stuff and all...

Here is a quote from an expert on Angels - Billy Graham

The Bible also teaches us that angels are sexless. Jesus said that in heaven men “neither marry, nor are given marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven”. This may indicate that angels enjoy relationships that are far more thrilling and exciting than sex.

How do I know Billy Graham is an expert? He wrote a book on the very subject!

But this sort of explains the rise in popularity in Islam ... you know virgins 'n all

But???? If angels are sexless, and if there's no marriage in heaven, how do they enjoy the virgins?

And how do they impregnate the "daughters of man?"

Agrippina wrote:

romansh wrote:

NineBerry wrote:But they surely must have penises. With all the getting the daughters of man pregnant stuff and all...

Here is a quote from an expert on Angels - Billy Graham

The Bible also teaches us that angels are sexless. Jesus said that in heaven men “neither marry, nor are given marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven”. This may indicate that angels enjoy relationships that are far more thrilling and exciting than sex.

How do I know Billy Graham is an expert? He wrote a book on the very subject!

But this sort of explains the rise in popularity in Islam ... you know virgins 'n all

But???? If angels are sexless, and if there's no marriage in heaven, how do they enjoy the virgins?

And how do they impregnate the "daughters of man?"

Hi grippie,
Mistranslation don't you know, they meant raisins, not virgins!

I want a PhD in angelology, so I can be an angel expert too. Trouble is, I can't be arsed to write 100,000 words on complete fantasy bollocks. Life is too short.

Agrippina wrote:But???? If angels are sexless, and if there's no marriage in heaven, how do they enjoy the virgins?

And how do they impregnate the "daughters of man?"

Don't some traditions in parts of Africa hold that evil spirits can steal a man's penis?

People who enjoy angel mythology can't do much better than Constantine (2005)...



It's basically crap, but this scene is memorable...
The angel Gabriel (played by Tilda Swinton) has confronted Lucifer and come off second-best. Now without her wings and mortal, she challenges Constantine (Keanu Reeves) to kill her. He punches her in the face: "It's called pain. Get used to it!"

BlackBart wrote:Destiny Angel was always my favourite. The sunglasses did it for me.

and she and the other Angels had cool wings

Father Renzo Lavator wrote:'Angels exist but they don't have wings': Catholic church 'angelologist' declares they are more like shards of light

'Angelologist' Father Renzo Lavator said the beings are 'back in fashion' thanks to the popularity of New Age religions.

"... and so, despite centuries of religious art depicting them as cherubs, we felt the need to reestablish our trademark with a complete corporate reimage as 'shards of light', to prevent copyright infringement. Besides, lasers are cool, right?"

Agrippina wrote:
But???? If angels are sexless, and if there's no marriage in heaven, how do they enjoy the virgins?

Do they? I am not claiming any of this to be logical or coherent.

Agrippina wrote:And how do they impregnate the "daughters of man?"

Well my imagination runs wild, with the aid of technology? Unfortunately my imagination becomes fairly crude at this point.

What, angels have no wings??