Do You Believe In The End Times?

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Do You Believe In The End Times?

#1  Postby aufbahrung » Mar 25, 2019 4:48 am

This could equally apply to atheists with all the nukes, climate change and half-wittery around. Are the end times a useful fiction, a big invisible coming stick to keep folks in line, or something both believers and non-believers can appreciate these days? Representing a sort of common ground?
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Re: Do You Believe In The End Times?

#2  Postby Thommo » Mar 25, 2019 4:49 am

No.
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Re: Do You Believe In The End Times?

#3  Postby Hermit » Mar 25, 2019 5:34 am

Yes, time will end. That's the theory currently held by astrophysicists anyway. They call it the heat death of the universe, or something like that.

I don't think it can be used as a stick to control crowds with, though, and neither can other astronomical scenarios that are expected to spell the end of our planet, such as the sun's expiry or the Andromeda galaxy colliding with the one we live in.
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Re: Do You Believe In The End Times?

#4  Postby Svartalf » Mar 25, 2019 5:39 am

If by 'end times', you mean anything like something 'prophesied' in Revelations, no I don't believe in ridiculous superstitions peddled by old coots likely delirious from ergotized bread or something similar. Othewise, I tend to align with Hermit.
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Re: Do You Believe In The End Times?

#5  Postby Thommo » Mar 25, 2019 5:47 am

Hermit wrote:Yes, time will end. That's the theory currently held by astrophysicists anyway. They call it the heat death of the universe, or something like that.


I don't think that's right. I think it's an idea among many, which doesn't necessitate the end of time by a whole raft of definitions anyway.

I'm also not sure that's what "the end times" means.
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Re: Do You Believe In The End Times?

#6  Postby Scot Dutchy » Mar 25, 2019 5:50 am

Well the Sun will blow up one day and there are plenty of examples in the universe but it wont be anything that will affect us or even mankind. The rate we are devouring the planet it wont be long.
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Re: Do You Believe In The End Times?

#7  Postby Hermit » Mar 25, 2019 7:54 am

Thommo wrote:
Hermit wrote:Yes, time will end. That's the theory currently held by astrophysicists anyway. They call it the heat death of the universe, or something like that.

I don't think that's right. I think it's an idea among many, which doesn't necessitate the end of time by a whole raft of definitions anyway.

Feel free to refute the second law of thermodynamics. It's only a theory, and I'm all ears.



Thommo wrote:I'm also not sure that's what "the end times" means.

aufbahrung has not settled on a definition, so why should we? :mrgreen:
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Re: Do You Believe In The End Times?

#8  Postby LucidFlight » Mar 25, 2019 7:59 am

aufbahrung wrote:This could equally apply to atheists with all the nukes, climate change and half-wittery around. Are the end times a useful fiction, a big invisible coming stick to keep folks in line, or something both believers and non-believers can appreciate these days? Representing a sort of common ground?


Yes. To some extent, this is how the rulers of the world use the media to keep the population in order. However, it only needs to be the threat of annihilation, rather than any truly impending kind. That is because, if people really felt that the end was nigh, then all manner of chaos would break out. The masses must be appeased with mobile phones, yet still feel the slight threat of possible imminent demise at any moment in the near future.
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Re: Do You Believe In The End Times?

#9  Postby Seabass » Mar 25, 2019 8:11 am

Surely the fact that the erstwhile host of The Celebrity Apprentice now controls the largest nuclear arsenal in the world is a sign that we are nearing the end times...
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Re: Do You Believe In The End Times?

#10  Postby aufbahrung » Mar 25, 2019 8:35 am

Everything about the far future is based on busienss as usual before then. What about vacuum decay? What if it begins here? Seems a fairly unique set of circumstances so far....happening around here?
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Re: Do You Believe In The End Times?

#11  Postby Hermit » Mar 25, 2019 8:48 am

Seabass wrote:Surely the fact that the erstwhile host of The Celebrity Apprentice now controls the largest nuclear arsenal in the world is a sign that we are nearing the end times...

We do live in "interesting times", what with Trump changing his mind with the capriciousness of a five year old. One minute he insults Kim Jong-un, calling him fat and rocketman. The next he sends him love letters. It is conceivable that he'll threaten to glass North Korea next. If he goes through with such a threat, China won't be standing idly by...

That said, I'll be more worried if he was impeached and loses office before his presidential term has run its scheduled course. Pence might take the opportunity to take all of us "Nearer my God to thee". After all, a final cataclysm is supposed to bring about The Saviour's second coming. Fundies are so looking forward to that.
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Re: Do You Believe In The End Times?

#12  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Mar 25, 2019 10:05 am

Hermit wrote:
Thommo wrote:
Hermit wrote:Yes, time will end. That's the theory currently held by astrophysicists anyway. They call it the heat death of the universe, or something like that.

I don't think that's right. I think it's an idea among many, which doesn't necessitate the end of time by a whole raft of definitions anyway.

Feel free to refute the second law of thermodynamics.

It only applies to closed systems, we don't that the universe is a closed system.
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Re: Do You Believe In The End Times?

#13  Postby aufbahrung » Mar 25, 2019 12:28 pm

Vacuum decay and the Matrix Hypothesis. Amazing book I haven't written yet. :think:
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Re: Do You Believe In The End Times?

#14  Postby The_Piper » Mar 25, 2019 1:09 pm


No I don't believe in "the end times", pre-ordained destiny, stuff like that.
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Re: Do You Believe In The End Times?

#15  Postby laklak » Mar 25, 2019 2:17 pm

Yes, we're doomed. The Donald is the anti-Christ, and Mueller is one of the Four Horsemen. Our only possible solution is to elect AOC and get rid of cars, airplanes, private property, and Doubleplusbad Oldthinkers. Better start swimming or you'll sink like a stone.
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Re: Do You Believe In The End Times?

#16  Postby felltoearth » Mar 25, 2019 2:58 pm

laklak wrote:Yes, we're doomed. The Donald is the anti-Christ, and Mueller is one of the Four Horsemen. Our only possible solution is to elect AOC and get rid of cars, airplanes, private property, and Doubleplusbad Oldthinkers. Better start swimming or you'll sink like a stone.

How about we think about the ideologies underpinning all of this and look at some solutions. I’m no fan of AOC but there are some reasonable things in her platform that need to be looked at. Your economy is losing money because of Trump in some pretty important fundamental sectors. That needs tending to, and the Republicans aren’t interested in it.
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Re: Do You Believe In The End Times?

#17  Postby Thommo » Mar 25, 2019 4:06 pm

Hermit wrote:
Thommo wrote:
Hermit wrote:Yes, time will end. That's the theory currently held by astrophysicists anyway. They call it the heat death of the universe, or something like that.

I don't think that's right. I think it's an idea among many, which doesn't necessitate the end of time by a whole raft of definitions anyway.

Feel free to refute the second law of thermodynamics. It's only a theory, and I'm all ears.


I think we should leave the goalposts where they are:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_deat ... e_universe
Current status
See also: Entropy § Cosmology, and Entropy (arrow of time) § Cosmology

Proposals about the final state of the universe depend on the assumptions made about its ultimate fate, and these assumptions have varied considerably over the late 20th century and early 21st century. In a hypothesized "open" or "flat" universe that continues expanding indefinitely, either a heat death or a Big Rip is expected to eventually occur.[1] If the cosmological constant is zero, the universe will approach absolute zero temperature over a very long timescale. However, if the cosmological constant is positive, as appears to be the case in recent observations, the temperature will asymptote to a non-zero positive value, and the universe will approach a state of maximum entropy.[8]

If a Big Rip does not happen long before that, the "heat death" situation could be avoided if there is a method or mechanism to regenerate hydrogen atoms from radiation, dark matter, dark energy, zero-point energy, or other sources so that star formation and heat transfer can continue to avoid a gradual running down of the universe due to the conversion of matter into energy and heavier elements in stellar processes and the absorption of matter by black holes and their subsequent evaporation as Hawking radiation.[9][10]
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Re: Do You Believe In The End Times?

#18  Postby Blackadder » Mar 25, 2019 5:39 pm

aufbahrung wrote:This could equally apply to atheists with all the nukes, climate change and half-wittery around. Are the end times a useful fiction, a big invisible coming stick to keep folks in line, or something both believers and non-believers can appreciate these days? Representing a sort of common ground?


If by "End Times", you mean predictions about the end of the universe, made by primitive humans during the Bronze Age, then the answer is "no". They are laughably inadequate - a bit like attributing earthquakes and tsunamis to angry god(s).

No-one who is possessed of an education more advanced than playing with coloured blocks should take such nonsense seriously.
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Re: Do You Believe In The End Times?

#19  Postby Svartalf » Mar 25, 2019 5:41 pm

Must admit it took me a couple decades of education and fact checking to be over with the ludicrous bronze age talk.
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Re: Do You Believe In The End Times?

#20  Postby Alan B » Mar 25, 2019 6:04 pm

"In the Year 2525" - sobering thoughts...
I have NO BELIEF in the existence of a God or gods. I do not have to offer evidence nor do I have to determine absence of evidence because I do not ASSERT that a God does or does not or gods do or do not exist.
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