God Not Really Tri-Omni?

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God Not Really Tri-Omni?

#1  Postby lpetrich » Feb 05, 2017 12:58 pm

Blogger Greta Christina has considered The "Pick Two" Game, Or, Do Believers Really Believe What They Say They Believe?

Given what kind of Universe we live in, it's rather difficult for a god to be all three of omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent, so might a god be some subset of these? GC had considered what Christian sects have which kind of god, and her analysis can easily be extended to other religions.

Omnipotent and omnibenevolent but not omniscient

God is like some absent-minded professor or some mother of a lot of children.

GC nominates Catholicism, with its lavish ceremonies. Having to go through all that trouble suggests that it is very hard to get God's attention. And Kit, one of her commenters, pointed out that praying to saints also fits into that, because saints are then supposed to intercede with God. Something that seems rather bureaucratic.

Omnipotent and omniscient but not omnibenevolent

God is like some unpleasant dictator or some abusive partner.

GC nominates Fundamentalism and a bit of Catholicism. God demands strict and rigid obedience and following rules exactly while threatening eternal damnation for even small departures, and he sends natural disasters and conquering armies and the like to punish people. God is always right, but he is not really benevolent, which is why fundie talk about God's goodness often seems very forced and unconvincing. And some fundies don't even try.

Omniscient and omnibenevolent but not omnipotent


God is like some very nice and smart midlevel bureaucrat, someone who knows about you and who cares about you, but who could not do very much for you even if he wanted to.

GC nominates the more liberal sorts of Xianity. However, some conservative Xians have slammed it as "moralistic therapeutic deism".
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Re: God Not Really Tri-Omni?

#2  Postby chairman bill » Feb 05, 2017 1:26 pm

What we come down to, is that the qualities attributed to God, are contradictory (even where they maybe don't transgress the rules of logic) when seen in the context of his supposed actions & the reality of the world around us. It's almost as if he's a made-up character.
“There is a rumour going around that I have found God. I think this is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.” Terry Pratchett
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Re: God Not Really Tri-Omni?

#3  Postby scott1328 » Feb 05, 2017 2:03 pm

In a sane belief system, we first locate a specimen BEFORE we attribute traits and qualities to it.

For my part I have often wondered if Big Foot can be red-haired, shy, and left-handed all at the same time.
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Re: God Not Really Tri-Omni?

#4  Postby juju7 » Feb 06, 2017 9:57 am

scott1328 wrote:In a sane belief system, we first locate a specimen BEFORE we attribute traits and qualities to it.

For my part I have often wondered if Big Foot can be red-haired, shy, and left-handed all at the same time.

If female, yes.
Male? No.
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Re: God Not Really Tri-Omni?

#5  Postby THWOTH » Feb 06, 2017 10:51 am

chairman bill wrote:What we come down to, is that the qualities attributed to God, are contradictory (even where they maybe don't transgress the rules of logic) when seen in the context of his supposed actions & the reality of the world around us. It's almost as if he's a made-up character.

There's an easy and undefeatable response to that: "Shut up! It's not your job to question God, it's your job to obey - and we'll stretch your heretic ass inside-out with a wardrobe if you give us any more of that shit. "
"No-one is exempt from speaking nonsense – the only misfortune is to do it solemnly."
Michel de Montaigne, Essais, 1580
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Re: God Not Really Tri-Omni?

#6  Postby Thommo » Feb 06, 2017 3:09 pm

The Plantinga defence is to say that yes, God has all three, but it is logically possible that at least one of them doesn't mean what you think it does.
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Re: God Not Really Tri-Omni?

#7  Postby chairman bill » Feb 07, 2017 2:44 pm

I have all three qualities, but none of them mean what you think they mean.
“There is a rumour going around that I have found God. I think this is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.” Terry Pratchett
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Re: God Not Really Tri-Omni?

#8  Postby Sendraks » Feb 07, 2017 2:53 pm

Is God a triple-changer or some sort of multi-figure transformer?
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Re: God Not Really Tri-Omni?

#9  Postby Shrunk » Feb 07, 2017 9:18 pm

I think omniscience is internally incoherent on its own. How can God know that he knows everything that can possibly be known? What if there is something he doesn't know, but he doesn't know he doesn't know it?
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Re: God Not Really Tri-Omni?

#10  Postby Animavore » Feb 07, 2017 9:24 pm

I think 'omnipotent' is practically meaningless. And I don't see how anyone can be good without bad to overcome. :dunno:
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Re: God Not Really Tri-Omni?

#11  Postby surreptitious57 » Feb 07, 2017 9:52 pm


Omnipotence and omnibenevolence are mutually incompatible
A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN
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Re: God Not Really Tri-Omni?

#12  Postby scott1328 » Feb 08, 2017 1:11 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Omnipotence and omnibenevolence are mutually incompatible

Are you sure? Can't a good, powerful god simply be ignorant?
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Re: God Not Really Tri-Omni?

#13  Postby OlivierK » Feb 08, 2017 6:59 am

Unicorns not really mono-horned?

Say it aint so. :roll:
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Re: God Not Really Tri-Omni?

#14  Postby Stein » Feb 08, 2017 8:57 am

lpetrich wrote:Blogger Greta Christina has considered The "Pick Two" Game, Or, Do Believers Really Believe What They Say They Believe?

Given what kind of Universe we live in, it's rather difficult for a god to be all three of omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent, so might a god be some subset of these? GC had considered what Christian sects have which kind of god, and her analysis can easily be extended to other religions.

Omnipotent and omnibenevolent but not omniscient

God is like some absent-minded professor or some mother of a lot of children.

GC nominates Catholicism, with its lavish ceremonies. Having to go through all that trouble suggests that it is very hard to get God's attention. And Kit, one of her commenters, pointed out that praying to saints also fits into that, because saints are then supposed to intercede with God. Something that seems rather bureaucratic.

Omnipotent and omniscient but not omnibenevolent

God is like some unpleasant dictator or some abusive partner.

GC nominates Fundamentalism and a bit of Catholicism. God demands strict and rigid obedience and following rules exactly while threatening eternal damnation for even small departures, and he sends natural disasters and conquering armies and the like to punish people. God is always right, but he is not really benevolent, which is why fundie talk about God's goodness often seems very forced and unconvincing. And some fundies don't even try.

Omniscient and omnibenevolent but not omnipotent


God is like some very nice and smart midlevel bureaucrat, someone who knows about you and who cares about you, but who could not do very much for you even if he wanted to.

GC nominates the more liberal sorts of Xianity. However, some conservative Xians have slammed it as "moralistic therapeutic deism".


This last model is the only one that fits in any way with known patterns on the ground. If -- if -- one is going to pick any of these models at all without being a total idiot, this last model is the only, only one that passes any kind of smell test.

-- And yes: it is a logical impossibility for a god to be all three.

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Re: God Not Really Tri-Omni?

#15  Postby Dark energy » Mar 22, 2017 2:19 am

God is ONE ,trinity is fake.for example,If jesus is earthly God,why does he pray to father GOD in heaven to help him? what kind of relationship the two had before Jesus took the form of human? why would a god need to de-value himself by becoming human and pooping in some latrines as Jesus god did? it is farce,it is illogical.
jesus is not God and he was a mere human.
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Re: God Not Really Tri-Omni?

#16  Postby crank » Mar 22, 2017 3:05 am

'I refuse to prove that I exist,' says God, 'for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.'
"'But,' says Man, 'the Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED.'
"'Oh dear,' says God, 'I hadn't thought of that,' and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
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-George Carlin, who died 2008. Ha, now we have human centipedes running the place
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