Is god alive?

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Is god alive?

#1  Postby Clive Durdle » Oct 12, 2017 3:45 pm

https://infidels.org/index.html

Comment below notes God is a lifeform. Is this true ? (Gordon :-))
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Re: Is god alive?

#2  Postby scott1328 » Oct 13, 2017 2:43 am

Present a god for examination, and I will tell you if it is alive
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Re: Is god alive?

#3  Postby Clive Durdle » Oct 13, 2017 6:01 am

scott1328 wrote:Present a god for examination, and I will tell you if it is alive


Sorry :-) I think this theological discussion on the attributes of gods is critical.

Allegedly top gods, Yahweh, the triune one, Allah, Zeus have various attributes- omnipotence holy to be worshipped blah blah.

I have only asked if being alive is in this set of godthinginess!

And what might be the repercussions?

Thomas Hardy argued gods die!
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Re: Is god alive?

#4  Postby Clive Durdle » Oct 13, 2017 6:07 am

An interesting specimen was allegedly born of a virgin, suffered, died, breathed and was born again!

But if gods can’t be shown to be alive, that fascinating tale must be made up.
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Re: Is god alive?

#5  Postby Fallible » Oct 13, 2017 6:57 am

Define 'alive'.
John Grant wrote:They say 'let go, let go, let go, you must learn to let go'.
If I hear that fucking phrase again, this baby's gonna blow
Into a million itsy bitsy tiny pieces, don't you know,
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Re: Is god alive?

#6  Postby aban57 » Oct 13, 2017 8:13 am

God created men in his image. Surely that means we are similar, at least in the most basic features ?
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Re: Is god alive?

#7  Postby monkeyboy » Oct 13, 2017 8:59 am

Clive Durdle wrote:An interesting specimen was allegedly born of a virgin, suffered, died, breathed and was born again!

But if gods can’t be shown to be alive, that fascinating tale must be made up.

I understand several gods were born of virgins, died and resurrected themselves. Seemed to be quite the trend back in the day.
They also seemed to be quite chatty at times, to individuals up mountains or in caves. Not so much of any of that happening these days apparently. There's football stadiums full of believers begging for a sign and god doesn't show up. He's either busy, indifferent, made up or dead. Either way, it makes no odds. We're on our own and there ain't much point worshipping someone who won't fix shit like cancers, famine and mental weather/geography or simply can't because they're unreal or dead.

Time people realised that and stopped wasting so much time effort and money on pretending it ain't so. Put the same amount of effort into being nice to each other and spent some of that religious wealth on research and feeding the poor and the world music get be a better place.
The Bible is full of interest. It has noble poetry in it; and some clever fables; and some blood-drenched history; and some good morals; and a wealth of obscenity; and upwards of a thousand lies.
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Re: Is god alive?

#8  Postby Clive Durdle » Oct 13, 2017 1:33 pm

Fallible wrote:Define 'alive'.


Precisely :-) I propose gods are a form of virus - needs humans to propagate.

Need an ecological study of gods, where they fit in food chains, are they emergent properties of complex minds
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Re: Is god alive?

#9  Postby Clive Durdle » Oct 13, 2017 1:43 pm

http://www-edc.eng.cam.ac.uk/~nc266/WebFiles/Crilly_(2010)_Roles_that_artefacts_play_%5BDesign_Studies%5D.pdf

This discusses functions of things. A key difference between living and non living entities is often around what they do or don’t do.

What are the purposes of gods? Can we conclude that because we can’t agree on anything they have done, maybe they don’t do anything and are therefore not alive but only have functions imposed on them by creatures with very complex brains.

They are basically chew toys for homosapiens.
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Re: Is god alive?

#10  Postby Animavore » Oct 13, 2017 1:46 pm

Yes. I'm fine.
A most evolved electron.
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Re: Is god alive?

#11  Postby Rumraket » Oct 13, 2017 2:18 pm

Fallible wrote:Define 'alive'.

:this:
"Nullius in verba" - Take nobody's word for it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nullius_in_verba
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Re: Is god alive?

#12  Postby Cito di Pense » Oct 13, 2017 3:10 pm

Clive Durdle wrote:
I have only asked if being alive is in this set of godthinginess!


Clive, your question is caught between the rock of human observation and the hard place of defining what a god is, something necessarily outside the category of human observation you will be using to designate aliveness, or else you wouldn't be asking.

Do you understand what a nonsense you've undertaken, here? Of course, you can take anything, including aliveness, and just make up some shit that purports to define it. Like most people who don't know what they're doing with questions like this, you assume that aliveness is taken for granted, that everyone knows what you indicate, but you should still say what you indicate.
Хлопнут без некролога. -- Серге́й Па́влович Королёв

Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
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Re: Is god alive?

#13  Postby Clive Durdle » Oct 13, 2017 10:20 pm

Maybe asking about the rock and the hard place is the point? :-)

Similarly to questions like is the universe alive, I think life is an emergent property of complex universes. One of the physics books I have suggests life is a bi product of black hole producing universes.

But returning to gods, I think the question of them being alive should be debated as it forces discussion by theists of what life is
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Re: Is god alive?

#14  Postby Cito di Pense » Oct 14, 2017 7:48 am

Clive Durdle wrote:Maybe asking about the rock and the hard place is the point? :-)

Similarly to questions like is the universe alive, I think life is an emergent property of complex universes. One of the physics books I have suggests life is a bi product of black hole producing universes.

But returning to gods, I think the question of them being alive should be debated as it forces discussion by theists of what life is


You still haven't specified what you think being alive is all about. I assume you take it for granted, leave that up to someone else to figure out or decide that anything behaving like you do is alive. How about, for example, frogs? What do you do that frogs cannot? Your point, if you have any, is waiting to be made. Just make it.

You read in a book somewhere that life is a product of black-hole-producing universes, and just assume you know what that denotes. Just give it a try, and then you can proceed. Otherwise, you're just waving your hands. But at what? Something only you can see?

But returning to gods, I think the question of them being alive should be debated as it forces discussion by theists of what life is


I disagree that this is the most basic problem you face. You don't want to be bothering theists to give you a definition of life just so you can find you have some issue with their definition insofar as it includes gods. Why should it not?

Maybe asking about the rock and the hard place is the point?


No, it isn't. You have to decide beforehand if you are going to make your definitions based on what you can observe, or include in them also what you can imagine.
Last edited by Cito di Pense on Oct 14, 2017 7:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is god alive?

#15  Postby Fallible » Oct 14, 2017 7:55 am

Clive Durdle wrote:
Fallible wrote:Define 'alive'.


Precisely :-) I propose gods are a form of virus - needs humans to propagate.

Need an ecological study of gods, where they fit in food chains, are they emergent properties of complex minds


So you propose that god is alive and also not?
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If I hear that fucking phrase again, this baby's gonna blow
Into a million itsy bitsy tiny pieces, don't you know,
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Re: Is god alive?

#16  Postby Cito di Pense » Oct 14, 2017 7:58 am

Clive Durdle wrote:
Need an ecological study of gods, where they fit in food chains, are they emergent properties of complex minds


Ah, OK. You want to deploy 'gods' to establish what a 'complex mind' is. Congratulations on creating another tautology, which involves defining one of the two in terms of the other. Useless to anyone but a dyed-in-the-wool filosofeezer. Also, if you want to talk about food chains, you'd better get busy establishing what 'alive' is all about.

Hmm. Food chains. Maybe you're talking about 'food for thought', which is metaphorical, in case you hadn't yet picked up on that.

Clive Durdle wrote:
Need an ecological study of gods, where they fit in food chains, are they emergent properties of complex minds


So far, the only gods you know about are discussed by human beings, so you're back to pondering whether you want to talk about observable stuff, or stuff you can imagine, which can have any properties you like. You have to be able to converse with some critter before you know it has a mind complex enough to concern itself with gods. in that sense, gods are just talked about.
Хлопнут без некролога. -- Серге́й Па́влович Королёв

Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
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