"Has science buried god?" Debate/Discussion in Brisbane on August 7th, 2013
Moderators: Blip, DarthHelmet86
stillwater wrote:One of the discussions where Lawrence Krauss exposed the dishonesty and disingeniousness of William Lane Craig.
IIzO wrote:Any reviews ?
Tero wrote:I really don't know why Craig gets all these gigs. Maybe he is the one chosen to speak eloquently? But he only ever had one argument: first cause.
Mick wrote:In the article linked by Shrunk, the author says Krauss stated that science discovered no gods were responsible for the laws of nature. That is false. Final causation and contingency are not even considered by science, let alone its methodological naturalism excludes any such theistic explanations in the first place.
Mick wrote:Tero wrote:I really don't know why Craig gets all these gigs. Maybe he is the one chosen to speak eloquently? But he only ever had one argument: first cause.
Um. He deploys many more arguments.
Animavore wrote:Mick wrote:In the article linked by Shrunk, the author says Krauss stated that science discovered no gods were responsible for the laws of nature. That is false. Final causation and contingency are not even considered by science, let alone its methodological naturalism excludes any such theistic explanations in the first place.
You seem to be saying science hasn't discovered gods because scientists aren't looking for them.
Neither final causation nor contingency can be tested. And, in fact, the former makes no sense in light of evolution since there is no end product. I'm sure it was more plausible when the world was fixed and static but we're, most of us, well beyond that.
So where to look next?
Shrunk wrote:IIzO wrote:Any reviews ?
There's a summary here, from someone who seems to be a Christian but is pretty evenhanded in his appraisal:
http://eternitainment.com/2013/08/10/co ... uried-god/
TBH, what that suggests to me is that there are likely better uses of my time than watching the debate....
Following that, Krauss restated his commitment to honesty and transparency, before presenting some instances where Craig has supposedly misrepresented others. This segment in fact had no relevance to the central topic. The move was out of a politician’s playbook, playing the man and not the argument.
stillwater wrote:One of the discussions where Lawrence Krauss exposed the dishonesty and disingeniousness of William Lane Craig.
Animavore wrote:Mick wrote:In the article linked by Shrunk, the author says Krauss stated that science discovered no gods were responsible for the laws of nature. That is false. Final causation and contingency are not even considered by science, let alone its methodological naturalism excludes any such theistic explanations in the first place.
You seem to be saying science hasn't discovered gods because scientists aren't looking for them.
Neither final causation nor contingency can be tested. And, in fact, the former makes no sense in light of evolution since there is no end product. I'm sure it was more plausible when the world was fixed and static but we're, most of us, well beyond that.
So where to look next?
Mick wrote:Animavore wrote:Mick wrote:In the article linked by Shrunk, the author says Krauss stated that science discovered no gods were responsible for the laws of nature. That is false. Final causation and contingency are not even considered by science, let alone its methodological naturalism excludes any such theistic explanations in the first place.
You seem to be saying science hasn't discovered gods because scientists aren't looking for them.
Neither final causation nor contingency can be tested. And, in fact, the former makes no sense in light of evolution since there is no end product. I'm sure it was more plausible when the world was fixed and static but we're, most of us, well beyond that.
So where to look next?
Here's what's odd. You said that final causation cannot be tested, and yet apyou also said that evolution has no "
End product" . But if final causation cannot be tested, you cannot say evolution has no 'end product', since that could be affirmed only if it were testable.
Mick wrote:Animavore wrote:Mick wrote:In the article linked by Shrunk, the author says Krauss stated that science discovered no gods were responsible for the laws of nature. That is false. Final causation and contingency are not even considered by science, let alone its methodological naturalism excludes any such theistic explanations in the first place.
You seem to be saying science hasn't discovered gods because scientists aren't looking for them.
Neither final causation nor contingency can be tested. And, in fact, the former makes no sense in light of evolution since there is no end product. I'm sure it was more plausible when the world was fixed and static but we're, most of us, well beyond that.
So where to look next?
Here's what's odd. You said that final causation cannot be tested, and yet apyou also said that evolution has no "
End product" . But if final causation cannot be tested, you cannot say evolution has no 'end product', since that could be affirmed only if it were testable.
Mick wrote:Animavore wrote:Mick wrote:In the article linked by Shrunk, the author says Krauss stated that science discovered no gods were responsible for the laws of nature. That is false. Final causation and contingency are not even considered by science, let alone its methodological naturalism excludes any such theistic explanations in the first place.
You seem to be saying science hasn't discovered gods because scientists aren't looking for them.
Neither final causation nor contingency can be tested. And, in fact, the former makes no sense in light of evolution since there is no end product. I'm sure it was more plausible when the world was fixed and static but we're, most of us, well beyond that.
So where to look next?
Suppose it is true that final causation and contingency cannot be tested. Presumably, you think falsifiability is necessary. Thus, it follows that science cannot deal with that stuff, but that doesn't imply its non-presence.
That said, the abandonment on final causation was not in light of some rebuttal. You have no scientific basis for affirming that. A familiarity with the history science will tell you that much. This was a switch in models. That said, there were plenty of teleological understandings of evolution, and nothing about evolution entails mechanical philosophy alone.
Mick wrote:Animavore wrote:Mick wrote:In the article linked by Shrunk, the author says Krauss stated that science discovered no gods were responsible for the laws of nature. That is false. Final causation and contingency are not even considered by science, let alone its methodological naturalism excludes any such theistic explanations in the first place.
You seem to be saying science hasn't discovered gods because scientists aren't looking for them.
Neither final causation nor contingency can be tested. And, in fact, the former makes no sense in light of evolution since there is no end product. I'm sure it was more plausible when the world was fixed and static but we're, most of us, well beyond that.
So where to look next?
Here's what's odd. You said that final causation cannot be tested, and yet apyou also said that evolution has no "
End product" . But if final causation cannot be tested, you cannot say evolution has no 'end product', since that could be affirmed only if it were testable.
Users viewing this topic: No registered users and 1 guest