Lord Raglan on Mythic Heroes

lpetrich · **#21** by **lpetrich** » Dec 31, 2013 7:56 am

Here's how I've scored each individual Gospel:
Matthew: 19
Mark: 11
Luke: 16
John: 13

Still rather high, especially Matthew's score.

My combined score, 18 1/2, is lower than Matthew's because of Luke's Temple-prodigy incident. That's a little bit about JC's childhood, though not as much as for (say) Krishna.

List of Lord Raglan evaluations - Atheism

lpetrich · **#22** by **lpetrich** » Dec 31, 2013 8:53 am

angelo wrote:Sounds familiar doesn't it?

What do you mean?

Are you referring to

Zeus fits rather well, it must be said. He had very noble birth, his father tried to kill him when he was a baby, he was rescued, he was raised by foster parents in a distant place, and he returned and defeated his father.

and how most of it fits Jesus Christ very well?

Clive Durdle · **#23** by **Clive Durdle** » Dec 31, 2013 8:56 am

12. He marries a princess, often the daughter of his predecessor, and

No. Score: 0

Although a relationship between him and Mary Magdalene is widely speculated on, neither the canonical Gospels nor most of the noncanonical ones contain much hint of such a relationship. The noncanonical Gospel of Philip describes Jesus Christ as lovingly kissing her on the mouth, but that's as far as it gets. In any case, Mary Magdalene is a commoner with nothing special about her.

I thought the wedding at Cana was his wedding - grooms worry about the wine....

I make that 19 1/2!

lpetrich · **#24** by **lpetrich** » Dec 31, 2013 8:37 pm

Clive Durdle wrote:
12. He marries a princess, often the daughter of his predecessor, and

No. Score: 0 ...

I thought the wedding at Cana was his wedding - grooms worry about the wine....

I make that 19 1/2!

Is there any evidence that the wedding was his wedding? That's rather improbable, and it would have been mentioned if it was. If he had a wife, then why was she never mentioned?

There's something that Lord Raglan did not address, and it's fulfillment of prophecy. Several legendary heroes had fulfilled prophecies, often despite efforts to thwart that fulfillment. Jesus Christ is joined by Krishna, the Buddha, Zeus, Oedipus, Perseus, Romulus, and King Arthur.

angelo · **#25** by **angelo** » Jan 01, 2014 10:55 am

lpetrich wrote:Here's how I've scored each individual Gospel:
Matthew: 19
Mark: 11
Luke: 16
John: 13

Still rather high, especially Matthew's score.

My combined score, 18 1/2, is lower than Matthew's because of Luke's Temple-prodigy incident. That's a little bit about JC's childhood, though not as much as for (say) Krishna.

List of Lord Raglan evaluations - Atheism

But Mark is agreed to by nearly all historicist as been the first and most primitive of the gospels. All including John had Mark's gospel in front of them when composing theirs. Shouldn't Mark be rated at 19?

lpetrich · **#26** by **lpetrich** » Jan 01, 2014 1:34 pm

Mark scores relatively low because it had no birth story. It starts with Jesus Christ full-grown, and its first biographical event is him getting baptized in the Jordan River by John the Baptist (or Baptizer). Matthew has King Herod ordering the killing of the Bethlehem baby boys and JC's family fleeing to Egypt with him. But in Luke's birth story, the biggest calamity is the lack of room in an inn for JC's parents. John goes off in a different direction, with a very metaphysical sort of origin for JC.

It's a story that grew in the telling, with Matthew and Luke incorporating much of Mark word-for-word and John apparently being based on Mark. As it grew, it became more "Raglanized", for lack of a better word.

The conspiracy theories about the death of JFK also seem like Raglanization. It's not enough for Lee Harvey Oswald to be a lone lunatic, it seems. He has to have been acting as part of some great conspiracy.

Arthurian lore is another case of a story growing in the telling. Though Arthur Pendragon supposedly lived around 500 CE, the first reference to him was in the History of the Britons (Historia Brittonum) composed around 828 and associated with a monk named Nennius. It refers to Arthur as a war leader (dux bellorum) who won 12 battles. References to him continue to be scanty until Geoffrey of Monmouth's History of the Kings of Britain (Historia Regum Britanniae), written around 1136. That book went into gory detail about Arthur and his associates, with his story taking its familiar form in it. GoM's successors went into further detail, especially about Arthur's associates.

My evaluations:
JFK: 7 (with conspiracy theories about his death: 8)
King Arthur: 14.5 (Lord Raglan's evaluation: 19)

Clive Durdle · **#27** by **Clive Durdle** » Jan 01, 2014 2:31 pm

In the Fourth Gospel of John, there is the wedding at Cana. To this wedding Jesus is specifically "called" -- which is slightly curious and sketchy in light of the specific details of the miracle, since he had not yet embarked on his ministry. More curious still, however, is the fact that his mother "just happens" as it were, to be present as well. In fact, her presence would seem to be taken for granted. The plot thickens when it is Mary (Jesus' mother) who not merely suggests to her son, but in effect orders him to replenish the wine. She behaves quite as if she were the hostess. It is also noteworthy that the servants comply with Mary and Jesus' orders. In Jewish custom, servants were only obligated to listen to those in authority and hosts of the ceremony.
One might also wonder if Jesus' first major miracle, the transmutation of water into wine, could have been used for such a banal purpose as some obscure village wedding. And why should two "guests" at a wedding take on themselves the responsibility of catering -- a responsibility that, by custom, should be reserved for the host?

Unless, of course, the wedding at Cana is Jesus' own wedding. (We'll assume that Mary is not at long last marrying Joseph or having a renewal celebration.) And if the wedding at Cana is Jesus', then it would indeed be his responsibility to replenish the wine.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/reverend- ... 00831.html

Clive Durdle · **#28** by **Clive Durdle** » Jan 01, 2014 2:33 pm

To confuse matters further, turning water into wine was a party trick using a device invented by Hero!

lpetrich · **#29** by **lpetrich** » Jan 01, 2014 8:20 pm

Here's an alternate scenario, one that involves the wedding being of someone else:

Mary was at someone's wedding, and the wedding's organizers discovered that Mary has a very notable son. So they sent for him.

angelo · **#30** by **angelo** » Jan 03, 2014 11:51 am

lpetrich wrote:Here's an alternate scenario, one that involves the wedding being of someone else:

Mary was at someone's wedding, and the wedding's organizers discovered that Mary has a very notable son. So they sent for him.

Some say this wedding was of Jesus himself.

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