New homophobic viral video

Disgustingly misleading video title

Abrahamic religion, you know, the one with the cross...

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New homophobic viral video

#1  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Jan 08, 2018 3:30 pm



https://yesplz.co/new-pray-gay-away-video-targets-scared-teens-twitter-livid/1/

“Love is Love” is clearly targeted at young people who are having a difficult time coming to terms with their sexuality It’s also, unsurprisingly, inviting lots of controversy for its potentially dangerous message that LGBT people aren’t religious enough and need to be “fixed.” Thomes, who does lectures around the country about praying the gay away, has been defending the video on Facebook.

Thomes argues that people should stop being gay even if they want to, because it’s wrong. “Should you stop beating your wife even if you really want to continue? YES. Should you not kill someone even if you’re really wanting to go through with it? YES.
Should you get clean if you have a drug problem and are destroying yourself and those who love you even if you still like getting high? YES. Should you stop cheating on your spouse even if you like the attention you’re getting from someone else? YES,” Thomes wrote.

People on social media have been standing up to Anchored North and Thomes.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: New homophobic viral video

#2  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Jan 08, 2018 3:38 pm

Video description:
Emily spent 7 years living out her same-sex attractions while being outspoken about God’s acceptance of her lifestyle. After her engagement with her female partner ended, she was invited to a Bible study. This weekly examination of the holiness of God challenged her day after day until her life completely changed. It is a powerful testimony that calls the homosexual community not to heterosexuality but to holiness. Emily’s story lovingly addresses the heart of the matter: that homosexuality is only one sin among many that manifests itself within a sinful heart. Only by the grace and mercy of God can we be transformed.

Regardless of what you have done in your life, redemption is provided to you through Jesus Christ. Just like Emily, even if you have sinful desires and affections, God died for you. He can make you a new creation and save you from a terrible fate. God is rich in mercy and full of great love, and He provided a way out. The narrow road to salvation requires that you call sin what it is, repent of it, and trust that Christ’s death and resurrection is sufficient to atone for the punishment you deserve. If any man is in Christ, he is a NEW creation. Unless this happens for you, your sinful desires will always drive your actions and shape your interpretation of Scripture. As culture influences the church, even Christians are deceived on this topic. However, for the person who claims to be gay and a Christian, understand that it is not possible for Christians to remain in willful, unrepentant sin. 1 John 3:9 says, “No one who is born of God makes a practice of sin, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.” God's message has always and will always involve crucifying the flesh with its passions and desires and living for Christ.

Bolded parts made bold by me.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: New homophobic viral video

#3  Postby Matthew Shute » Jan 08, 2018 3:53 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:


Preaching to the choir for 500 likes, at the expense of 240 people thinking some equivalent of "ugh, that's some dishonest and dismal Xtian propaganda!" I can't envision this winning many souls for the magic man. It's some pretty crap PR for their brand of dogmatic supernatural drivel, although slickly produced.
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Re: New homophobic viral video

#4  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Jan 08, 2018 4:09 pm

Matthew Shute wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:


Preaching to the choir for 500 likes, at the expense of 240 people thinking some equivalent of "ugh, that's some dishonest and dismal Xtian propaganda!" I can't envision this winning many souls for the magic man. It's some pretty crap PR for their brand of dogmatic supernatural drivel, although slickly produced.

That's a bit misleading, the video has been posted on multiple video and social network platforms and has already been watched over a million times.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: New homophobic viral video

#5  Postby Thommo » Jan 08, 2018 4:31 pm

“Should you stop beating your wife even if you really want to continue? YES. Should you not kill someone even if you’re really wanting to go through with it? YES.
Should you get clean if you have a drug problem and are destroying yourself and those who love you even if you still like getting high? YES. Should you stop cheating on your spouse even if you like the attention you’re getting from someone else? YES,”


Should you stop making money by making bigoted videos even if you like it? YES.

Is this guy really too fucking dumb to understand that a list of things that hurt someone else has nothing to do with people's sexuality?
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Re: New homophobic viral video

#6  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Jan 08, 2018 4:42 pm

Thommo wrote:
“Should you stop beating your wife even if you really want to continue? YES. Should you not kill someone even if you’re really wanting to go through with it? YES.
Should you get clean if you have a drug problem and are destroying yourself and those who love you even if you still like getting high? YES. Should you stop cheating on your spouse even if you like the attention you’re getting from someone else? YES,”


Should you stop making money by making bigoted videos even if you like it? YES.

Is this guy really too fucking dumb to understand that a list of things that hurt someone else has nothing to do with people's sexuality?

Well, the organisation is partnered with Comfort's Living Waters ministry, so ....
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: New homophobic viral video

#7  Postby scott1328 » Jan 08, 2018 5:12 pm

Thommo wrote:
“Should you stop beating your wife even if you really want to continue? YES. Should you not kill someone even if you’re really wanting to go through with it? YES.
Should you get clean if you have a drug problem and are destroying yourself and those who love you even if you still like getting high? YES. Should you stop cheating on your spouse even if you like the attention you’re getting from someone else? YES,”


Should you stop making money by making bigoted videos even if you like it? YES.

Is this guy really too fucking dumb to understand that a list of things that hurt someone else has nothing to do with people's sexuality?

man-on-man sex makes baby Jesus cry. girl-on-girl sex makes baby Jesus pop a woody, and that makes Mother Mary cry. Isn't that harmful enough.
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Re: New homophobic viral video

#8  Postby laklak » Jan 08, 2018 5:22 pm

C'mon. Jesus hung out with 12 dudes constantly. He told them to eat him. Mary Magdalene was his beard.
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Re: New homophobic viral video

#9  Postby Blackadder » Jan 08, 2018 6:45 pm

Interestingly, one of our daughter's friends recently revealed that her parents had split up after nearly 20 years of marriage after her father, a very devout Christian and a lay preacher, "discovered" that he was gay and left to live with another man. So praying the gay away clearly didn't work for him. They are all really nice people and it's kinda sad that it took him 20 years, a heterosexual marriage and two kids before he accepted who he is.
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Re: New homophobic viral video

#10  Postby Mike_L » Jan 08, 2018 7:37 pm

From the video description:
...homosexuality is only one sin among many that manifests itself within a sinful heart.

Well, now we know. It's cardiovascular-centered sin that shapes a person's sexual orientation. Some high science here!

:roll:
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Re: New homophobic viral video

#11  Postby Tracer Tong » Jan 09, 2018 2:14 am

Thommo wrote:
“Should you stop beating your wife even if you really want to continue? YES. Should you not kill someone even if you’re really wanting to go through with it? YES.
Should you get clean if you have a drug problem and are destroying yourself and those who love you even if you still like getting high? YES. Should you stop cheating on your spouse even if you like the attention you’re getting from someone else? YES,”


Should you stop making money by making bigoted videos even if you like it? YES.

Is this guy really too fucking dumb to understand that a list of things that hurt someone else has nothing to do with people's sexuality?


I doubt this video has been made with material gain in mind. And its creator and participants no doubt believe homosexuality is harmful to oneself and others.
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Re: New homophobic viral video

#12  Postby laklak » Jan 10, 2018 7:46 pm

Yeah, they probably believe that. Being religious whackjobs they likely believe a whole lot of bullshit.
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Re: New homophobic viral video

#13  Postby Tracer Tong » Jan 10, 2018 7:59 pm

Like most folks, then.
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Re: New homophobic viral video

#14  Postby laklak » Jan 10, 2018 8:02 pm

Probably, though religious folks are required to believe in bullshit.
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Re: New homophobic viral video

#15  Postby Thommo » Jan 10, 2018 8:37 pm

Tracer Tong wrote:
Thommo wrote:
“Should you stop beating your wife even if you really want to continue? YES. Should you not kill someone even if you’re really wanting to go through with it? YES.
Should you get clean if you have a drug problem and are destroying yourself and those who love you even if you still like getting high? YES. Should you stop cheating on your spouse even if you like the attention you’re getting from someone else? YES,”


Should you stop making money by making bigoted videos even if you like it? YES.

Is this guy really too fucking dumb to understand that a list of things that hurt someone else has nothing to do with people's sexuality?


I doubt this video has been made with material gain in mind. And its creator and participants no doubt believe homosexuality is harmful to oneself and others.


That appears to be a quote from Emily Thomes, who it appears is a paid speaker on behalf of such causes. The video is associated with a professionally made site that (like the vast majority of these evangelical ventures) prominently features a "donate" button and that appears to have full time employees who do indeed profit financially from the propagation of their views.

And whether she believes homosexuality is harmful is hardly the point, I'm not suggesting that she participates in homosexual acts any more than I would myself (rather less in fact, since I never have and never will). The point is that if people shouldn't do something because someone else believes it's harmful then she shouldn't make these videos, since other people think they are harmful - which is the very same metric.

What I do note is that you won't find a lot of these churches crusading against horse riding (definitely harmful) or mountaineering (definitely harmful) or wearing mixed fibre clothing (claimed to be forbidden by the same religious text) or any of a wide variety of other issues. The reason is of course about what modern Christians within certain communities see as sinful, she's not actually trying to prevent harm at all.

Anyway, I am not at all sanguine about letting people do actual harm (as in the case of conversion therapies connected with films like this one) because they have a religious belief that other people are harming themselves. She isn't educating or informing. She isn't justifying her belief that harm is being done, or even attempting to. Consequently she deserves, in my view, criticism and censure for the actual harm she is involved in when she promotes intolerance.

Edit: typo
Last edited by Thommo on Jan 11, 2018 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New homophobic viral video

#16  Postby Tracer Tong » Jan 11, 2018 1:18 pm

Thommo wrote:
Tracer Tong wrote:
Thommo wrote:
“Should you stop beating your wife even if you really want to continue? YES. Should you not kill someone even if you’re really wanting to go through with it? YES.
Should you get clean if you have a drug problem and are destroying yourself and those who love you even if you still like getting high? YES. Should you stop cheating on your spouse even if you like the attention you’re getting from someone else? YES,”


Should you stop making money by making bigoted videos even if you like it? YES.

Is this guy really too fucking dumb to understand that a list of things that hurt someone else has nothing to do with people's sexuality?


I doubt this video has been made with material gain in mind. And its creator and participants no doubt believe homosexuality is harmful to oneself and others.


That appears to be a quote from Emily Thomes, who it appears is a paid speaker on behalf of such causes. The video is associated with a professionally made site that (like the vast majority of these evangelical ventures) prominently features a "donate" button and that appears to have full time employees who do indeed profit financially from the propagation of their views.


All of which goes to prove that such videos aren’t made for free, yes. But if you’re still thinking this is all just a way of making some people money, a pursuit for which everything else is so much camouflage, you probably aren’t understanding the people you’re criticising.


Thommo wrote:
And whether she believes homosexuality is harmful is hardly the point, I'm not suggesting that she participates in homosexual acts any more than I would myself (rather less in fact, since I never have and never will). The point is that if people shouldn't do something because someone else believes its harmful then she shouldn't make these videos, since other people think they are harmful - which is the very same metric.


Do you think that is a fair characterisation of their argument (to the extent they have one)?

Thommo wrote:
What I do note is that you won't find a lot of these churches crusading against horse riding (definitely harmful) or mountaineering (definitely harmful) or wearing mixed fibre clothing (claimed to be forbidden by the same religious text) or any of a wide variety of other issues. The reason is of course about what modern Christians within certain communities see as sinful, she's not actually trying to prevent harm at all.


Right: it’s about sin, and the harm it causes. In preventing sin, they purport to prevent harm. Of course, that harm is supposed to occur on a plane you’re unlikely to recognise, but nevertheless this is an accurate characterisation of what they believe.

Thommo wrote:
Anyway, I am not at all sanguine about letting people do actual harm (as in the case of conversion therapies connected with films like this one) because they have a religious belief that other people are harming themselves. She isn't educating or informing. She isn't justifying her belief that harm is being done, or even attempting to. Consequently she deserves, in my view, criticism and censure for the actual harm she is involved in when she promotes intolerance.


And you’re quite entitled to that view. But it’s probably a good idea to understand where they’re coming from. Heck, it may even be that in doing that, you may one day be in a position whereby you’ve an opportunity to change someone’s mind.

A radical thought, that!
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Re: New homophobic viral video

#17  Postby Thommo » Jan 11, 2018 1:48 pm

Tracer Tong wrote:All of which goes to prove that such videos aren’t made for free, yes. But if you’re still thinking this is all just a way of making some people money, a pursuit for which everything else is so much camouflage, you probably aren’t understanding the people you’re criticising.


I don't think I said that did I?

Your use of "just" implies you think I was emphasizing profit to the exclusion of all other factors, when I never used words to suggest that, and to clarify - that wasn't my intention either. The subclause* was drawing attention to an aggravating factor surrounding the central point, rather than itself being the central point (and excluding all others).

Tracer Tong wrote:
Thommo wrote:
And whether she believes homosexuality is harmful is hardly the point, I'm not suggesting that she participates in homosexual acts any more than I would myself (rather less in fact, since I never have and never will). The point is that if people shouldn't do something because someone else believes its harmful then she shouldn't make these videos, since other people think they are harmful - which is the very same metric.


Do you think that is a fair characterisation of their argument (to the extent they have one)?


Yes, the text I quoted was a list of things that you wouldn't do and that are all obviously harmful juxtaposed with something else that she was trying to create a moral imperative for not doing.

Perhaps I am mistaken, in what other light can one see that list?

Tracer Tong wrote:
Thommo wrote:
What I do note is that you won't find a lot of these churches crusading against horse riding (definitely harmful) or mountaineering (definitely harmful) or wearing mixed fibre clothing (claimed to be forbidden by the same religious text) or any of a wide variety of other issues. The reason is of course about what modern Christians within certain communities see as sinful, she's not actually trying to prevent harm at all.


Right: it’s about sin, and the harm it causes. In preventing sin, they purport to prevent harm. Of course, that harm is supposed to occur on a plane you’re unlikely to recognise, but nevertheless this is an accurate characterisation of what they believe.


Exactly, and so, if she thinks that believing something is harmful is enough to create an imperative not to do something, then by that token she shouldn't be involved in these campaigns which many believe to be harmful.

Tracer Tong wrote:
Thommo wrote:
Anyway, I am not at all sanguine about letting people do actual harm (as in the case of conversion therapies connected with films like this one) because they have a religious belief that other people are harming themselves. She isn't educating or informing. She isn't justifying her belief that harm is being done, or even attempting to. Consequently she deserves, in my view, criticism and censure for the actual harm she is involved in when she promotes intolerance.


And you’re quite entitled to that view. But it’s probably a good idea to understand where they’re coming from. Heck, it may even be that in doing that, you may one day be in a position whereby you’ve an opportunity to change someone’s mind.

A radical thought, that!


I don't see that I have misunderstood anything though, pending a different interpretation of the list I was criticising.

I think there's more chance of changing people's minds by drawing attention to the actual harm conversion therapies have done and are doing and their complete lack of success in changing people's sexuality. More minds have been changed about the inhuman way prejudice led gay people to be treated for decades of the 20th century by pointing to the misery and discrimination these attitudes caused than by lending a sympathetic ears to the purveyors of religious hatefulness. The minds being changed, however, are unlikely to be those of people involved in these ministries directly as their whole lives, financial and personal wellbeing and identity become tied up in the endeavours they pursue. They are the epitome of entrenched.

*Since it's connected by "by" I'm not sure it technically is a subclause, but I did almost no grammar at school and don't really have the time or energy to look up the correct term right now. It's used in the same way as "It is wrong that Andrew Wakefield profited directly from his harmful research into MMR vaccines." is, that is to say it's the harmful research that is the central problem and the profit only makes it worse.
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Re: New homophobic viral video

#18  Postby Tracer Tong » Jan 11, 2018 4:30 pm

Thommo wrote:
Tracer Tong wrote:
Thommo wrote:
And whether she believes homosexuality is harmful is hardly the point, I'm not suggesting that she participates in homosexual acts any more than I would myself (rather less in fact, since I never have and never will). The point is that if people shouldn't do something because someone else believes its harmful then she shouldn't make these videos, since other people think they are harmful - which is the very same metric.


Do you think that is a fair characterisation of their argument (to the extent they have one)?


Yes, the text I quoted was a list of things that you wouldn't do and that are all obviously harmful juxtaposed with something else that she was trying to create a moral imperative for not doing.

Perhaps I am mistaken, in what other light can one see that list?


It looks to me like a list of things that harms others and/or oneself, a further example of which is supposedly participating in homosexual relationships. Nowhere do I see an argument that "people shouldn't do something because someone else believes its harmful".

Thommo wrote:
Tracer Tong wrote:
Thommo wrote:
Anyway, I am not at all sanguine about letting people do actual harm (as in the case of conversion therapies connected with films like this one) because they have a religious belief that other people are harming themselves. She isn't educating or informing. She isn't justifying her belief that harm is being done, or even attempting to. Consequently she deserves, in my view, criticism and censure for the actual harm she is involved in when she promotes intolerance.


And you’re quite entitled to that view. But it’s probably a good idea to understand where they’re coming from. Heck, it may even be that in doing that, you may one day be in a position whereby you’ve an opportunity to change someone’s mind.

A radical thought, that!


I don't see that I have misunderstood anything though, pending a different interpretation of the list I was criticising.

I think there's more chance of changing people's minds by drawing attention to the actual harm conversion therapies have done and are doing and their complete lack of success in changing people's sexuality. More minds have been changed about the inhuman way prejudice led gay people to be treated for decades of the 20th century by pointing to the misery and discrimination these attitudes caused than by lending a sympathetic ears to the purveyors of religious hatefulness. The minds being changed, however, are unlikely to be those of people involved in these ministries directly as their whole lives, financial and personal wellbeing and identity become tied up in the endeavours they pursue. They are the epitome of entrenched.


If you don't think it's possible to change such people's minds, that's fine, I guess. I'm rather of the view that seeds of doubt can be sown, and that's it's important to represent the positions one disagrees with properly. Note that this isn't about lending any degree of sympathy.
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Re: New homophobic viral video

#19  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Jan 11, 2018 4:32 pm

Tracer Tong wrote:
Thommo wrote:
Tracer Tong wrote:
Thommo wrote:
And whether she believes homosexuality is harmful is hardly the point, I'm not suggesting that she participates in homosexual acts any more than I would myself (rather less in fact, since I never have and never will). The point is that if people shouldn't do something because someone else believes its harmful then she shouldn't make these videos, since other people think they are harmful - which is the very same metric.


Do you think that is a fair characterisation of their argument (to the extent they have one)?


Yes, the text I quoted was a list of things that you wouldn't do and that are all obviously harmful juxtaposed with something else that she was trying to create a moral imperative for not doing.

Perhaps I am mistaken, in what other light can one see that list?


It looks to me like a list of things that harms others and/or oneself, a further example of which is supposedly participating in homosexual relationships. Nowhere do I see an argument that "people shouldn't do something because someone else believes its harmful".

Given that the list contains things that demonstrably cause harm and homosexuality doesn't, I fail to see how they are equal.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: New homophobic viral video

#20  Postby laklak » Jan 11, 2018 4:40 pm

Tracer Tong wrote: But it’s probably a good idea to understand where they’re coming from. Heck, it may even be that in doing that, you may one day be in a position whereby you’ve an opportunity to change someone’s mind.

A radical thought, that!


As a general rule I agree, but I've dealt with this sort of fundy Xtian my entire life, and can count on one hand the number of them who were willing to even listen to an opposing viewpoint, let alone actually change their position. They're righteous, you see.

It's difficult for someone from the UK or mainland Europe to understand just how medieval these people's thought processes are. You have to live among them to get the full bat-shit flavor.
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