A quick Google result.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTcHa5JlumY[/youtube]

Duly note that this Jew also criticizes Judaism for not living up to the standards he thinks religions should live up to - thus, what he says can't really be seen as representative of Judaism, as he quite clearly contrasts his stance to the stances of other Jews.

Fancy living one's life according to their religion. The wreckage across the muslim world is testament to the absurdity of it all.

Scot Dutchy wrote:
In islam a liberal muslim organisation has not appeared. There has been no schism along those lines plenty on other lines though which has clearly manifest itself in countries in the middle east.

Liberal movements within Islam

You might also want to check out British Muslims for Secular Democracy.

Another load of cherry pickers.

I think you will find that they are not recognised by mainstream muslims.

Scot Dutchy wrote:
I think you will find that they are not recognised by mainstream muslims.

Does that then not indicate a schism of the type you say does not exist in Islam?

@Scott. There are extremist and moderates in both Muslim as well as Xtianity. Both have no place in 21st century planet earth.

angelo wrote:@[color=#CC0000][b]Scott.[/b][/color] There are extremist and moderates in both Muslim as well as Xtianity. Both have no place in 21st century planet earth.

Why is that? Because in 21st century people are to be told what they can and can't think?

Nora_Leonard wrote:

Scot Dutchy wrote:
I think you will find that they are not recognised by mainstream muslims.

Does that then not indicate a schism of the type you say does not exist in Islam?

I do not know what the membership of these organizations amounts to, but I doubt it will reach the requisite number of millions, including prominent clerics, that would be required to treat it as anything approaching a schism.

Sgt Kelly wrote:

Nora_Leonard wrote:

Scot Dutchy wrote:
I think you will find that they are not recognised by mainstream muslims.

Does that then not indicate a schism of the type you say does not exist in Islam?

I do not know what the membership of these organizations amounts to, but I doubt it will reach the requisite number of millions, including prominent clerics, that would be required to treat it as anything approaching a schism.

The point I was initially responding to was Scot's assertion that no liberal organisation had arisen in Islam. I pointed out that there were indeed some, but he said these would not be 'recognised' by mainstream Islam. Well of course they wouldn't be. It's like the Catholic church that for how long described itself as the "one true church"? (For all I know it still does.)

I agree with Sgt Kelly. The numbers are too small to becounted as a schisim.
How many mosques do they have?

Scot Dutchy wrote:I agree with Sgt Kelly. The numbers are too small to becounted as a schisim.
How many mosques do they have?

Well for a start the British Muslims for Secular Democracy is just an organisation, not a religious sect.

And whether they count as a schism or not, they do count as liberal Muslims. Which you said didn't exist.

Nora_Leonard wrote:

Scot Dutchy wrote:I agree with Sgt Kelly. The numbers are too small to becounted as a schisim.
How many mosques do they have?

Well for a start the British Muslims for Secular Democracy is just an organisation, not a religious sect.

And whether they count as a schism or not, they do count as liberal Muslims. Which you said didn't exist.

But they do not have numbers to form a schism.

Sgt Kelly wrote:

Nora_Leonard wrote:

Scot Dutchy wrote:
I think you will find that they are not recognised by mainstream muslims.

Does that then not indicate a schism of the type you say does not exist in Islam?

I do not know what the membership of these organizations amounts to, but I doubt it will reach the requisite number of millions, including prominent clerics, that would be required to treat it as anything approaching a schism.

It's a schism even if it has a dozen members. Or has the divine voice come down and decreed that it's only a schism once it's reached a certain number of adherents?

Scot Dutchy wrote:

Nora_Leonard wrote:

Scot Dutchy wrote:I agree with Sgt Kelly. The numbers are too small to becounted as a schisim.
How many mosques do they have?

Well for a start the British Muslims for Secular Democracy is just an organisation, not a religious sect.

And whether they count as a schism or not, they do count as liberal Muslims. Which you said didn't exist.

But they do not have numbers to form a schism.

I am not debating that. I am challenging the fact that you said there were no liberal Muslims!

Nora_Leonard wrote:

Scot Dutchy wrote:

Nora_Leonard wrote:

Scot Dutchy wrote:I agree with Sgt Kelly. The numbers are too small to becounted as a schisim.
How many mosques do they have?

Well for a start the British Muslims for Secular Democracy is just an organisation, not a religious sect.

And whether they count as a schism or not, they do count as liberal Muslims. Which you said didn't exist.

But they do not have numbers to form a schism.

I am not debating that. I am challenging the fact that you said there were no liberal Muslims!

Ok I agree there are some but nothing like for instance liberal jews.

Nora_Leonard wrote:

angelo wrote:@[color=#CC0000][b][color=#CC0000][b]Scott.[/b][/color][/b][/color] There are extremist and moderates in both Muslim as well as Xtianity. Both have no place in 21st century planet earth.

Why is that? Because in 21st century people are to be told what they can and can't think?

Meaning they belong to 15th century thinking. People can think what they like, millions of men have died in two world wars and more defending that right. But like RD I see that extremism as a sort of child abuse when taught to young minds.

angelo wrote:

Nora_Leonard wrote:

angelo wrote:@[color=#CC0000][b][color=#CC0000][b][color=#CC0000][b]Scott.[/b][/color][/b][/color][/b][/color] There are extremist and moderates in both Muslim as well as Xtianity. Both have no place in 21st century planet earth.

Why is that? Because in 21st century people are to be told what they can and can't think?

Meaning they belong to 15th century thinking. People can think what they like, millions of men have died in two world wars and more defending that right. But like RD I see that extremism as a sort of child abuse when taught to young minds.

But you said that even moderate religious thinking has no place in the 21st century, which is pretty much demanding that everyone think like you, surely?

Scot Dutchy wrote:

Nora_Leonard wrote:

Scot Dutchy wrote:

Nora_Leonard wrote:

Well for a start the British Muslims for Secular Democracy is just an organisation, not a religious sect.

And whether they count as a schism or not, they do count as liberal Muslims. Which you said didn't exist.

But they do not have numbers to form a schism.

I am not debating that. I am challenging the fact that you said there were no liberal Muslims!

Ok I agree there are some but nothing like for instance liberal jews.

@Scott. There are little over 13 million Jews in the world compared to around 1 billion muslims. I'm certain the numbers of extremist would show these numbers in percentages.

Nora_Leonard wrote:

angelo wrote:

Nora_Leonard wrote:

angelo wrote:@[color=#CC0000][b][color=#CC0000][b][color=#CC0000][b][color=#CC0000][b]Scott.[/b][/color][/b][/color][/b][/color][/b][/color] There are extremist and moderates in both Muslim as well as Xtianity. Both have no place in 21st century planet earth.

Why is that? Because in 21st century people are to be told what they can and can't think?

Meaning they belong to 15th century thinking. People can think what they like, millions of men have died in two world wars and more defending that right. But like RD I see that extremism as a sort of child abuse when taught to young minds.

But you said that even moderate religious thinking has no place in the 21st century, which is pretty much demanding that everyone think like you, surely?

I demand nothing. If anything I'm surprised that most religious thinking/belief has survived into the 21st century in the numbers that have. In some parts of the world like the USA up to 60% still think we were created by god just 10.000 years ago. To take another example this time the muslim world, even secular countries like Turkey have around the same or more creationist. I remember discussions a few of decades ago where I stated to anyone who would listen that by the turn of the century religion in all its guises would be on it's last grasp. Was I ever wrong! In fact I think religion has increased if the evangelical mega churches are taken into consideration.