Reviving the pagan mystery religions

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Re: Reviving the pagan mystery religions

#521  Postby ADParker » Jul 27, 2014 2:05 am

savithru wrote:
hackenslash wrote:But can you actually demonstrate dualism?


Kant has already divided the world into phenomena and the noumena. According to Kant all human knowledge has to come from the senses, there is no way of knowing the noumenon. Concepts like God and Forms fall into the realm of noumenon and hence unknowable by human beings. We completely agree with Kant but assert that there is a way to study the platonic realm without using the sense organs.

So you don't actually understand what "demonstrate" means then :think:
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Re: Reviving the pagan mystery religions

#522  Postby ADParker » Jul 27, 2014 2:38 am

savithru wrote:
monkeyboy wrote:
You know something? I'm confused here. All the current religions kicking around, at least that I'm aware of anyway, make big fat claims which are never demonstrated such as prayer being answered and essentially, they all boil down to a complete reliance on faith in their claims and belief in god/s who leave no evidence of any interaction with their believers. You started off by introducing the idea of powers such as turning rivers around. Now that would be awesome evidence of some serious powers there, just that one. Why would religions such as Christianity take hold, reliant as it is on faith and piss poor evidence when there were people around who could call on the powers you introduced?


Simon the magician was right there when Christianity was at its early stages. But we have no control with what gods had already preordained.

What the fuck is this supposed to be?!
So what if it is claimed that Simon Magus was there? It is also claimed that he converted to Christianity, implying that in the stories he was convinced that Christianity was true and his previous beliefs wrong. What this has to do you your claims about turning rivers back upon themselves and stopping the sun etc.?!

savithru wrote:

How would those people be persecuted by mere mortal believers when they could do things like suspend daylight etc?


By the time Christianity took over, religion was almost transforming from esoteric to exoteric dogmatic faith based systems so it would be hard to find such individuals.

:what:
Are you saying that the incredible phenomena as mentioned in your OP could not trump such evidence free faith based nonsense? How could that be?! Could it be that even back then they had nothing but assertions of those things without any sign of them actually happening, nothing but stories? :think:

savithru wrote:My God is falsifiable where as the Christian God is not. I also want my religion to be banned because we really don't like mass worship and have no ideas of establishing or forming a religion.

So are you bitching about your religion being repressed or do you want it banned... or what? You aren't making any sense, and are basically contradicting yourself, as if you don't have a consistent view to begin with, and are just making it up as you go along. . :nono:

And why on earth do you want it banned?! I don't want any religion banned, even though I think they are all vapid nonsense. Because that amounts to establishing thought crime. :naughty:
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Re: Reviving the pagan mystery religions

#523  Postby savithru » Jul 27, 2014 3:08 am



This correctly describes the situation of scientists, atheists and believers of other orthodox religions. We are those people who broke those shackles, turned back and saw the real light which is stimulating us from behind directly.
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Re: Reviving the pagan mystery religions

#524  Postby LucidFlight » Jul 27, 2014 3:40 am

Cool story.
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Re: Reviving the pagan mystery religions

#525  Postby ADParker » Jul 27, 2014 4:16 am

{Sigh} Yes, I am familiar with Plato's analogy (and the rest of The Republic as well). But what we have is not one, but many many people and groups making differing and conflicting claims about some "ultimate" reality. Why should we believe you over them? That's the key problem you have to overcome savithru. Merely asserting that you are one of the privileged few to have seen reality for what it truly is is as worthless as those innumerable other similar claims.
Until you justify your claims all we need do is :yawn:
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Re: Reviving the pagan mystery religions

#526  Postby SafeAsMilk » Jul 27, 2014 4:21 am

Great, we're getting lectured at with high school literature :lol:

Ah well, at least he didn't use the Orson Welles version. Too good to be tained by his masturbatory wibbling.
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How to enter into another's body?

#527  Postby savithru » Jul 27, 2014 5:45 am


According to Tantra there are three different teachings of the Transformation practices: the special Transformation Yoga; the Teaching of the self-mind (or soul) entering into another's corpse; and the teaching of expelling another's soul from his body so that one's consciousness may enter this body. All these three Transformation practices require, first, the capability of closing the nine gates by words; second, the mastery of Vase Breathing, by means of which all the pranas of different organs are gathered and entered into the Central Channel; third, the mastery of Tumo, whereby the small Ah-word of the red-element in the navel center is able to attract and hold the wisdom Hūṃ word (which is the rider of the subtle prana) at the Heart Center. This is said in the Tantras of Vajra Dakini and of Gdan-bzhi and in their common commentary Bhaba Bhad-ras; and in the Tantra of G’a-sbyor and its commentary, the Fruit-Bearing Pith-Instruction.

I believe that in both cases, whether the self-consciousness enters into the corpse or into another's living body, a special prana performance is required in addition to the requirements and qualifications mentioned before. The details may be found in some other sources.

It would be difficult to benefit sentient beings on a great scale with a low-born human body; therefore, it is desirable to have a human body of high class to accomplish the undertaking. Because the possession of a sick, aged, crippled body would handicap self-improvement as well as altruistic deeds, one resorts to the Yoga of Entering Another's Body to procure a fair and healthy body.

According to gurus there are three requirements for practicing this Yoga: first, the person who intends to practice this yoga must have an infinite compassion for all sentient beings; he must be absolutely sure that great benefits and boons for sentient beings will be achieved if he performs this yoga; he also must have mastered both prana and mind. A yogi who meets these requirements and conditions may then proceed to a very secluded, sheltered place. He should dispense with all distracted thoughts, keep away from all wordly activities, prepare the offerings, and establish the altar for the patron Buddha. With all these arrangements made, he should then engage himself in meditation under strict Confinement of Contemplation104.

Then he should prepare a Mandala painted black as the supporting-platform and put a human skull on it. In the center of the human skull a Hūṃ word should be clearly written with a white stone (chalk). Visualizing himself become the Patron-Buddha, he then recites and meditates on the prayer of Seven Wishes of Bodhisattva Samantabhadra. Then the yogi visualizes a Hūṃ word in the center of the heart, and, when the exhalation goes through the right nostril, he should think the Hūṃ word comes out along with the exalted air and enters into and is identified with the Hūṃ word in the skull. Meantime the yogi should hold the air outside as long as possible. When he cannot hold it any longer, he slowly takes the air in. Then he exhales and visualizes as before. Continuing this practice for a while, the yogi will see the skull shake, jump and move—these are the signs that will appear.

The yogi may now proceed to the actual transformation of soul. First, he should procure a fresh corpse with no signs of decomposing, not being dead from any injuries or disease; or he may procure a clean and fresh corpse of cattle or any livestock. Then he washes the corpse with clean water, decorates it with pleasing ornaments, and places it well on the Mandala in a sitting position. Then, the yogi visualizes the Hūṃ word which symbolizes the mind, both in his own heart and that of the corpse. He then arouses his prana to drive the Hūṃ word out through his right nostril and through the corpse's left nostril into the Hūṃ word at the Heart Center. If the yogi practices this again and again, the corpse will start to breathe and to regain its senses. When these signs take place, the yogi should know his performance is effective and should (temporarily) stop the practice.

When the yogi is ready to carry out the real performance, he should release himself from the Confinement and go out to find a qualified and fresh corpse, bring it back, and place it on the Mandala facing him. Having decorated the corpse, the yogi then visualizes the self-Yidam-body and lays aside the attachment to the vulgar human body. He then reminds himself that all Dharmas in the cosmos are magic-like and illusory. Now it is time for him to cut off all vulgar, fallacious thought, as well as delusory habitual thinking, and render his body as an offering to the gurus and guards.

With great earnestness, he should pray them to protect him from all evil hindrances and influences. Then the yogi should clearly visualize both himself and the corpse transformed into Patron Buddha and vividly visualize the Hūṃ word in the Heart Center of both. Then the yogi contacts the air-gate of the corpse and actuates his prana to drive the Hūṃ word in his Heart Center out through his right nostril and into the Hūṃ word of the corpse through its left nostril. At this time the yogi should pull up all his strength to aim at the Hūṃ word of the corpse with his prana-mind. By means of this exercise, the corpse will begin to breathe and jerk, etc. Whereupon, the yogi's friendly companions should take care of him, foster him with proper food for half a month in a solitary place. Until the yogi can stably live with the new body, he should not appear before people. In order to express his gratitude to the deceased one, the yogi should perform the Offering Rituals, such as the Ritual of Tsa Tsa and the Ritual of Burning Performances. With this new human body, the yogi should devote himself to the welfare of sentient beings on a great and broad scale.

These instructions were given by gurus. Thus, the instruction on the Yoga of Entering Other's body which are based on the genuine contents of (several) Tantras and their commentaries has now been given here without wavering ambiguity.

- Esoteric Teachings of Tibetan Tantra


Throughout history people have demonstrated this, at least in the east. All these are fact claims, clearly observable phenomena. Just because no one dares to do this or is not viable to do it at this current age and time doesn't mean its not possible, I want to be sane and I honestly don't like to lose my life trying to achieve something like that. The problem is we have to start from scratch because the increasing intellectualization of the eastern mind has resulted in a great loss in the technical details of these rituals. But its okay, I'm determined to revive it and bring it back with a sane approach to this, I know its my responsibility to demonstrate it.
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Re: Reviving the pagan mystery religions

#528  Postby LucidFlight » Jul 27, 2014 6:01 am

Sorry, I kind of skim-read that. Why is it that we are wanting to enter other people's bodies?
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Re: Reviving the pagan mystery religions

#529  Postby Arnold Layne » Jul 27, 2014 8:25 am

LucidFlight wrote:Sorry, I kind of skim-read that. Why is it that we are wanting to enter other people's bodies?

:naughty2:
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Re: Reviving the pagan mystery religions

#530  Postby Fallible » Jul 27, 2014 8:29 am

FILTH!
She battled through in every kind of tribulation,
She revelled in adventure and imagination.
She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
Oh, my my! Oh my, she flies!
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Re: How to enter into another's body?

#531  Postby ADParker » Jul 27, 2014 8:47 am

savithru wrote:Throughout history people have demonstrated this, at least in the east. All these are fact claims, clearly observable phenomena. Just because no one dares to do this or is not viable to do it at this current age and time doesn't mean its not possible, I want to be sane and I honestly don't like to lose my life trying to achieve something like that.

Stuff and nonsense. :roll:

Just because no one dares to suddenly transform into a fire breathing dragon, or it is not viable to do it in this current age doesn't mean its not possible either. :roll:


savithru wrote:The problem is we have to start from scratch because the increasing intellectualization of the eastern mind has resulted in a great loss in the technical details of these rituals. But its okay, I'm determined to revive it and bring it back with a sane approach to this, I know its my responsibility to demonstrate it.

And until you, or anyone, manages to demonstrate it there is no reason for anyone (including you or them) to believe it. It's as simple as that.
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Re: Reviving the pagan mystery religions

#532  Postby chairman bill » Jul 27, 2014 9:20 am

Fallible wrote:FILTH!


But you said you loved it :(
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Re: Reviving the pagan mystery religions

#533  Postby Varangian » Jul 27, 2014 9:54 am

LucidFlight wrote:Sorry, I kind of skim-read that. Why is it that we are wanting to enter other people's bodies?


savithru wrote:We are those people who broke those shackles, turned back and saw the real light which is stimulating us from behind directly.


There are some who live in fear of ass-raping space lizards, and now we have torch-carrying pagans to worry about, too.
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Re: Reviving the pagan mystery religions

#534  Postby ADParker » Jul 27, 2014 10:23 am

Varangian wrote:
LucidFlight wrote:Sorry, I kind of skim-read that. Why is it that we are wanting to enter other people's bodies?


savithru wrote:We are those people who broke those shackles, turned back and saw the real light which is stimulating us from behind directly.


There are some who live in fear of ass-raping space lizards, and now we have torch-carrying pagans to worry about, too.

Just waiting for it to look like you might have just dropped dead, so that they can steal your body...wear you like a new skin suit. :what:
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Re: How to enter into another's body?

#535  Postby Ven. Kwan Tam Woo » Jul 27, 2014 10:42 am

ADParker wrote:
savithru wrote:Throughout history people have demonstrated this, at least in the east. All these are fact claims, clearly observable phenomena. Just because no one dares to do this or is not viable to do it at this current age and time doesn't mean its not possible, I want to be sane and I honestly don't like to lose my life trying to achieve something like that.

Stuff and nonsense. :roll:

Just because no one dares to suddenly transform into a fire breathing dragon, or it is not viable to do it in this current age doesn't mean its not possible either. :roll:


savithru wrote:The problem is we have to start from scratch because the increasing intellectualization of the eastern mind has resulted in a great loss in the technical details of these rituals. But its okay, I'm determined to revive it and bring it back with a sane approach to this, I know its my responsibility to demonstrate it.

And until you, or anyone, manages to demonstrate it there is no reason for anyone (including you or them) to believe it. It's as simple as that.


Of course you can make rivers run backwards etc. All you need is the right mind altering substances :smoke:
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Re: Reviving the pagan mystery religions

#536  Postby Rumraket » Jul 27, 2014 1:46 pm

savithru wrote:We completely agree with Kant but assert that there is a way to study the platonic realm without using the sense organs.

Good luck with that. Assertions count for nothing. :roll:
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Re: How to enter into another's body?

#537  Postby monkeyboy » Jul 27, 2014 5:25 pm

savithru wrote:

According to Tantra there are three different teachings of the Transformation practices: the special Transformation Yoga; the Teaching of the self-mind (or soul) entering into another's corpse; and the teaching of expelling another's soul from his body so that one's consciousness may enter this body.

-Snipped for economy-

- Esoteric Teachings of Tibetan Tantra


Throughout history people have demonstrated this, at least in the east.

You claim this and yet a very useful and I should imagine extremely valuable skill has just disappeared. Why is that? The ability to be brought back to life is the sort of thing that the power hungry have sought throughout history, not deliberately stamped out. Taking over another persons soul is the fantasy, wet dreams of the megalomaniacs of the world. They wouldn't persecute someone capable of this sort of thing, they would harness it and use it to subdue others. Places of intense worship like the Shaolin temples would have been protected by the powerful if they could do such things, they certainly wouldn't have to do promotional shit like tours and videos just to stay open.
All these are fact claims, clearly observable phenomena.

Well, they can't really be both now can they? What you have are claims, what you so far lack is observable phenomena, that's the sticky part that we're kind of asking for here.
Just because no one dares to do this or is not viable to do it at this current age and time doesn't mean its not possible, I want to be sane and I honestly don't like to lose my life trying to achieve something like that. The problem is we have to start from scratch because the increasing intellectualization of the eastern mind has resulted in a great loss in the technical details of these rituals. But its okay, I'm determined to revive it and bring it back with a sane approach to this, I know its my responsibility to demonstrate it.

And this part, this part we call apologetics, the excuses people use to explain their ability to deliver on their claims. I don't know how firm your beliefs are in any of this but so far, all you have produced are empty claims about ancient powers which apparently were lost to mankind because of persecution of people alleged to be capable of doing some really awesome shit by people who most definitely weren't and by being educated out of doing that awesome shit, like you really could be convinced so easily that going to school to learn to read and write and count and stuff was better than being able to stop the sun in the sky, turn rivers around and enter other people's minds etc.
Sorry , I don't believe you. I don't believe you to the point of calling bullshit on your claims of these powers ever having existed outside of wishful thinking and I don't believe for a moment you could achieve them or you would have come here with some evidence rather than this very transparent shit you are spouting.
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Re: Reviving the pagan mystery religions

#538  Postby Alan B » Jul 28, 2014 7:56 pm

All this seems rather charlatanesque - like those fakers (er, sorry, Fakirs) who sit on hidden supports while claiming to levitate...
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Re: Reviving the pagan mystery religions

#539  Postby orpheus » Jul 29, 2014 1:26 am

SafeAsMilk wrote:Great, we're getting lectured at with high school literature :lol:

Ah well, at least he didn't use the Orson Welles version. Too good to be tained by his masturbatory wibbling.


Hello, seeker!

:)
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Re: Reviving the pagan mystery religions

#540  Postby SafeAsMilk » Jul 29, 2014 4:28 am

orpheus wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:Great, we're getting lectured at with high school literature :lol:

Ah well, at least he didn't use the Orson Welles version. Too good to be tained by his masturbatory wibbling.


Hello, seeker!

:)

I guess I shouldn't be too hard on him, there's a seeker born every minute...
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