Templeton spends $8 million to try disprove Darwinism

Christianity, Islam, Other Religions & Belief Systems.

Moderators: kiore, Blip, The_Metatron

Templeton spends $8 million to try disprove Darwinism

#1  Postby Shrunk » Apr 23, 2016 9:10 pm

Further details, and explanations of why this money could be better spent, from Jerry Coyne:

Despite all the calls for an “extended evolutionary synthesis” (EES), ideas like niche construction, developmental plasticity that is not genetically conditioned, and epigenetic modification caused by the environment have not produced any substantive advances (niche construction is in fact an old idea that’s touted as new). Yet their proponents... continue to churn out papers saying that big advances are just around the corner....

The processes touted by EES-ers may operate in isolated instances, but, so far, they hardly seem sufficiently ubiquitous to warrant an $11 million grant. I’m not sure what Templeton was thinking when it funded this, except that it has a lot of money and was somehow convinced by the “we’re-gonna-reform-SET” palaver. One possibility that crossed my mind is that the new project directly attacks the “gene-centric” view of evolution. That could be seen as reductionist, and the “EES” as more inclusive and (if you squint hard) more numinous. Or, as a reader suggests below, perhaps the view of “organism as agent in its own evolution” is tantalizingly close to “intelligent designer as agent in evolution.”


and Larry Moran:

(M)y real beef is with the outdated view of evolution held by EES proponents. To a large extent they are fighting a strawman version of evolution. They think that the "Modern Synthesis" or "Neo-Darwinism" is the current view of evolutionary theory. They are attacking the old-fashioned view of evolutionary theory that was common in the 1960s but was greatly modified by the incorporation of Neutral Theory and increased emphasis on random genetic drift. The EES proponents all seem to have been asleep when the real revolution occurred.

When you listen to them, you get the distinct impression they have never read The spandrels of San Marco and the Panglossian paradigm: a critique of the adaptationist programme. I have no confidence in biologists who want to overthrow a view of evolutionary theory that's already been dead for half a century. I have no confidence in biologists who aren't at ease talking about non-adaptive evolution. This is the 21st century....

The real revolution was the incorporation of nonadaptive mechanisms into evolutionary theory and the overthrow of adaptationism. That revolution is not complete. There are still thousands of biologists who remain strict Darwinists even as they try to promote different ways of achieving adaptation.


It's a lot of money to spend on an area not likely to produce significant results, all in interest of promoting a religious agenda that is only tangentially related to the subject in the first place.
"A community is infinitely more brutalised by the habitual employment of punishment than it is by the occasional occurrence of crime." -Oscar Wilde
User avatar
Shrunk
THREAD STARTER
 
Posts: 26170
Age: 59
Male

Country: Canada
Canada (ca)
Print view this post

Re: Templeton spends $8 million to try disprove Darwinism

#2  Postby Calilasseia » May 04, 2016 7:43 pm

indeed, there is nothing in this that is aimed at tightening rigour within biology, which biologists are perfectly capable of achieving without outside interference, especially from pedlars of religious apologetics. Instead, it's a Trojan Horse campaign aimed at providing duplicitous creationist apologetics with a fake veneer of "intellectual respectability".
Signature temporarily on hold until I can find a reliable image host ...
User avatar
Calilasseia
RS Donator
 
Posts: 22629
Age: 62
Male

Country: England
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Templeton spends $8 million to try disprove Darwinism

#3  Postby bert » May 04, 2016 9:21 pm

I'm not a biologist but I would be tempted to send my grant application there. With a few woo words inserted it might get approved. And then there would be ample money to do my research following which I would publish the untainted results of my effort. It would be a double-whammy: extract the money from where it shouldn't be. And (probably) with results the sponsor didn't want to hear. As a bonus, we could say on this forum "Even Templeton sponsored research shows that xyz."

Bert
Well, a man can dream
Promote rational thought on religion by telling other people to download this free booklet. Read it yourself and you may well learn new arguments and a new approach to debunk religion
bert
 
Posts: 517
Male

Netherlands (nl)
Print view this post

Re: Templeton spends $8 million to try disprove Darwinism

#4  Postby laklak » May 04, 2016 11:34 pm

A good Poe with a grasp of the language could do quite well, I think.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. - Mark Twain
The sky is falling! The sky is falling! - Chicken Little
I never go without my dinner. No one ever does, except vegetarians and people like that - Oscar Wilde
User avatar
laklak
RS Donator
 
Name: Florida Man
Posts: 20878
Age: 70
Male

Country: The Great Satan
Swaziland (sz)
Print view this post

Re: Templeton spends $8 million to try disprove Darwinism

#5  Postby The_Piper » May 04, 2016 11:47 pm

Maybe not the best place to vent this, but I hate the word Darwinism. Dingbats. :nono: :shifty:
"There are two ways to view the stars; as they really are, and as we might wish them to be." - Carl Sagan
"If an argument lasts more than five minutes, both parties are wrong" unknown
Self Taken Pictures of Wildlife
User avatar
The_Piper
 
Name: Fletch F. Fletch
Posts: 30412
Age: 49
Male

Country: Chainsaw Country
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Templeton spends $8 million to try disprove Darwinism

#6  Postby Rumraket » Jun 07, 2016 9:41 am

I read a paper on a templeton funded project designed to elucidate whether evolution could have produced "new innovations" exclusively through point mutations. As expected: it couldn't.

I'm guessing the only reason it isn't being toted as a total victory for creationism on every creationist/ID blog is that the researchers then demonstrated that when all types of mutations are included (duplications, inversion, rearrangements etc.) evolution is easily up to the task. Probably not what the funders had hoped for.

Paper: http://journals.plos.org/ploscompbiol/article?id=10.1371/journal.pcbi.1003818
Half-Life 3 - I want to believe
User avatar
Rumraket
 
Posts: 13264
Age: 43

Print view this post

Re: Templeton spends $8 million to try disprove Darwinism

#7  Postby Calilasseia » Jun 10, 2016 10:30 am

Another issue being that even an exponential-time algorithm will produce results quickly, if the relevant proportionality constants are small enough.
Signature temporarily on hold until I can find a reliable image host ...
User avatar
Calilasseia
RS Donator
 
Posts: 22629
Age: 62
Male

Country: England
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Templeton spends $8 million to try disprove Darwinism

#8  Postby chairman bill » Jun 10, 2016 10:38 am

$8 million. The question is, what would Jesus do with the money; try to disprove evolution, or spend it helping the poor?
“There is a rumour going around that I have found God. I think this is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.” Terry Pratchett
User avatar
chairman bill
RS Donator
 
Posts: 28354
Male

Country: UK: fucked since 2010
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Templeton spends $8 million to try disprove Darwinism

#9  Postby bert » Jun 10, 2016 4:50 pm

Well, given that Jesus spent his time walking around and haphazardly curing people instead of eradicating all diseases and ailments with a single efficient incantation, don't expect him to multiply it like bread of fish.

I don't think he'd spend it in a restaurant with a dozen of his buddies, having bad recollections from the last time doing that.

Bert
Perhaps he'd buy Thomas off, outbidding the others.
Promote rational thought on religion by telling other people to download this free booklet. Read it yourself and you may well learn new arguments and a new approach to debunk religion
bert
 
Posts: 517
Male

Netherlands (nl)
Print view this post

Re: Templeton spends $8 million to try disprove Darwinism

#10  Postby Darwinsbulldog » Jun 11, 2016 4:00 am

Well, any woo that appears will be filtered out by the scientific process. In other words, scientists biased by religious apologetics will only confirm, by their negative [or poorly analysed] results that biology is on the right track after all.

It is a good test in a way, and might uncover some interesting things. Scientific progress is driven by the "Young Turks", so wibble-merchants can be trusted to present some contrary views. Lynn Margulis worked against the tide, and her hard work paid off, and now the endo-symbiotic theory is now "doctrine" in biology.
If nothing else it might prove to some of the more intellectually honest wibble merchants that they have been sold a pup. :thumbup:
Jayjay4547 wrote:
"When an animal carries a “branch” around as a defensive weapon, that branch is under natural selection".
Darwinsbulldog
 
Posts: 7440
Age: 69

Print view this post

Re: Templeton spends $8 million to try disprove Darwinism

#11  Postby DougC » Jun 11, 2016 6:53 am

"Ok, the gloves are off. Lets put this 'Evolution' bullshit to bed once and for all. How much are we going to need to fuck them up?"

"Our preliminary research says $7.8 million."

"Hell, take a round $8 million and go to town on them!"
To do, is to be (Socrate)
To be, is to do (Sartre)
Do be do be do (Sinatra)
SUBWAY(1985)
DougC
 
Posts: 14920
Age: 51
Male

Country: UNITED Kingdom
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Templeton spends $8 million to try disprove Darwinism

#12  Postby Darwinsbulldog » Jun 11, 2016 9:11 am

DougC wrote:"Ok, the gloves are off. Lets put this 'Evolution' bullshit to bed once and for all. How much are we going to need to fuck them up?"

"Our preliminary research says $7.8 million."

"Hell, take a round $8 million and go to town on them!"

$8 billion won't fuck up evolution, or $8 trillion, or...... :thumbup:
Jayjay4547 wrote:
"When an animal carries a “branch” around as a defensive weapon, that branch is under natural selection".
Darwinsbulldog
 
Posts: 7440
Age: 69

Print view this post

Re: Templeton spends $8 million to try disprove Darwinism

#13  Postby DougC » Jun 11, 2016 9:13 am

Its quite quant, the way they think.
To do, is to be (Socrate)
To be, is to do (Sartre)
Do be do be do (Sinatra)
SUBWAY(1985)
DougC
 
Posts: 14920
Age: 51
Male

Country: UNITED Kingdom
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Templeton spends $8 million to try disprove Darwinism

#14  Postby Darwinsbulldog » Jun 11, 2016 9:20 am

DougC wrote:Its quite quant, the way they think.


Please don't abuse the meaning of the word "think" Doug! :thumbup:
Jayjay4547 wrote:
"When an animal carries a “branch” around as a defensive weapon, that branch is under natural selection".
Darwinsbulldog
 
Posts: 7440
Age: 69

Print view this post

Re: Templeton spends $8 million to try disprove Darwinism

#15  Postby DougC » Jun 11, 2016 9:44 am

Point taken, and conceded. :)
To do, is to be (Socrate)
To be, is to do (Sartre)
Do be do be do (Sinatra)
SUBWAY(1985)
DougC
 
Posts: 14920
Age: 51
Male

Country: UNITED Kingdom
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Templeton spends $8 million to try disprove Darwinism

#16  Postby Lola » Oct 07, 2016 12:28 am

The_Piper wrote:Maybe not the best place to vent this, but I hate the word Darwinism. Dingbats. :nono: :shifty:


I know!! Right?!!!
User avatar
Lola
 
Name: Lola
Posts: 66
Female

Country: USA
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Templeton spends $8 million to try disprove Darwinism

#17  Postby Macdoc » Oct 07, 2016 1:58 am

Its quite quant, the way they think.


it was too good a pun to skip tho :thumbup:
Travel photos > https://500px.com/macdoc/galleries
EO Wilson in On Human Nature wrote:
We are not compelled to believe in biological uniformity in order to affirm human freedom and dignity.
User avatar
Macdoc
 
Posts: 17714
Age: 76
Male

Country: Canada/Australia
Australia (au)
Print view this post

Re: Templeton spends $8 million to try disprove Darwinism

#18  Postby BWE » Oct 07, 2016 2:23 am

I'm going to win a templeton prize someday.
User avatar
BWE
 
Posts: 2863

Print view this post

Re: Templeton spends $8 million to try disprove Darwinism

#19  Postby DougC » Oct 07, 2016 4:06 am

'Keep your feet on the ground, and keep reaching for your toes.'
To do, is to be (Socrate)
To be, is to do (Sartre)
Do be do be do (Sinatra)
SUBWAY(1985)
DougC
 
Posts: 14920
Age: 51
Male

Country: UNITED Kingdom
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Templeton spends $8 million to try disprove Darwinism

#20  Postby BWE » Oct 14, 2016 6:21 pm

Lol. I will hire someone to massage my toes after I win.
User avatar
BWE
 
Posts: 2863

Print view this post


Return to Theism

Who is online

Users viewing this topic: No registered users and 1 guest