The best arguments for strong atheism

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Re: The best arguments for strong atheism

#21  Postby Jireh » Dec 26, 2011 11:42 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:For personally I have no argument.


Then why are you posting here ?
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Re: The best arguments for strong atheism

#22  Postby Jireh » Dec 26, 2011 11:43 am

Fenrir wrote:Please present the reasons, which most convince you theism is true.


That is not the topic of this thread. :thumbup:
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Re: The best arguments for strong atheism

#23  Postby LucidFlight » Dec 26, 2011 11:48 am

Jireh wrote:Base it on a positive arguments , not on a negative ( the bible is garbage etc..... )

  1. It comes in a bright, sophisticated range of postmodern finishes and colours.
  2. It's easy to use.
  3. It totally kicks ass.
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Re: The best arguments for strong atheism

#24  Postby Mycernius » Dec 26, 2011 11:49 am

Quite simple, there is no evidence for mentioned magic sky pixies.
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Re: The best arguments for strong atheism

#25  Postby John P. M. » Dec 26, 2011 11:52 am

I seem to always be under the misapprehension that these questions come from an honestly inquiring, open and curious mind. My mistake. I think I'll go back to my forum hiatus.
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Re: The best arguments for strong atheism

#26  Postby chairman bill » Dec 26, 2011 11:52 am

Jireh wrote:
chairman bill wrote:But Jireh, you're asking for positive reasons for not believing in something.


Nope.

Please present the reasons, which most convince you strong atheism is true.

What is difficult to understand this question right ??


Nope. You're asking for positive reasons for not believing in something. That's what atheism is; not believing in something. And the difference between atheism & 'strong atheism' is simply the degree of certainty expressed regarding the likelihood that there might one day be evidence to indicate a deity. 'Strong atheism' is true in the sense that it is a true belief in the absence of god(s), and the reasoning behind the truth claim involved in that is the complete & utter lack of evidence for a deity. What is so difficult to understand?

So, please present the reasons, which most convince you, that pixies don't exist. I suspect some overlap with my reasons for thinking there is no god(s)
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Re: The best arguments for strong atheism

#27  Postby blindfaith » Dec 26, 2011 11:53 am

okay i will try again
1. its simple and easy to understand
2. its free
3. its a better answer than anything else
4. its a good excuse to eat babies
5. it annoys the religious

hows that?
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Re: The best arguments for strong atheism

#28  Postby Fenrir » Dec 26, 2011 11:55 am

Jireh wrote:
Fenrir wrote:Please present the reasons, which most convince you theism is true.


That is not the topic of this thread. :thumbup:


Well, actually, it is.

If there are no reasons supported by reason and evidence, and I am yet to be convinced there are, then atheism (of whatever flavour) is the only alternative. A conclusion (even if tentative) based on reason and evidence is vastly more positive in outlook than one based on fear and fantasy.

Not that the discussion is really relevant anyway, If you can't even provide a testable definition of the subset of supernatural beings which you'd like to collectively call gods then you haven't even raised the concept to one requiring consideration.

Is there a distinction between strong and weak Ignostics?
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Re: The best arguments for strong atheism

#29  Postby I.C.37 » Dec 26, 2011 11:59 am

The main argument for strong atheism would be that there is absolutely no sane reason to call any (hypothetical or real) entity "a god." The god-concept itself has no rational basis.

Let's say, for the sake of the argument, that I go in my laboratory and create a universe (see wikipedia: the simulation hypothesis.) That universe would be as real to its inhabitants as ours is to us. I can control, modify and intervene in this universe as I please, performing miracles and whatnot.

Do I become a god? Would you consider me a god? Should I consider myself a god?

You will probably answer "no" to all 3 questions, in which case it doesn't make sense for the inhabitants of my universe to call me a god either, because obviously I'm not one.

In other words, I don't claim there are no gods. Instead I claim that the words "god", "deity", "divine being" and so on, have no meaning and should be dismissed as archaic and outdated concepts.
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Re: The best arguments for strong atheism

#30  Postby Paul » Dec 26, 2011 12:01 pm

Jireh wrote:
Fenrir wrote:Please present the reasons, which most convince you theism is true.


That is not the topic of this thread. :thumbup:


On the contrary.

If someone could actually supply some convincing reasons that theism is true, then there would be very few atheists, 'strong' or 'weak'.
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Re: The best arguments for strong atheism

#31  Postby Animavore » Dec 26, 2011 12:06 pm

All through man's history natural explanations have always superceded supernatural explanations. It has never happened the other way around. So for instance while we are replete with things like, 'people used to believe volcanoes were caused by angry gods but scientists now know it's a result of techtonic plates' we have not one example that runs, 'people used to believe that rain was caused by precipitation of water in the atmosphere but scientists now know it is in fact the watery offerings of a god whose heavenly servants gather large volumes of water up in the sky then carry the droplets lovingly down to us, except in cases where the god is angry with us in which case they pelt the drops at us in their wrath.' Given that I see no reason for this trend not to continue I cannot concieve of a place where a god is needed or even desireable. Therefore I reject the concept outright as simply useless.
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Re: The best arguments for strong atheism

#32  Postby Jireh » Dec 26, 2011 12:10 pm

chairman bill wrote:
Nope. You're asking for positive reasons for not believing in something.


Nope. I am asking for a explanation, how our universe can come into existence, or exist forever by its own.
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Re: The best arguments for strong atheism

#33  Postby Jireh » Dec 26, 2011 12:11 pm

blindfaith wrote:okay i will try again
1. its simple and easy to understand
2. its free
3. its a better answer than anything else
4. its a good excuse to eat babies
5. it annoys the religious

hows that?


superficial and annoying.
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Re: The best arguments for strong atheism

#34  Postby Viraldi » Dec 26, 2011 12:11 pm

My response is not too uncommon, but purely curious until further reasons render it not. Specifically, what do you mean by strong atheism? My truncated understanding though exhaustive would not consider strong atheism alongside theism to have any truth value, neither of which could be expressed as true should you note that these are beliefs.
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Re: The best arguments for strong atheism

#35  Postby Jireh » Dec 26, 2011 12:12 pm

Animavore wrote:All through man's history natural explanations have always superceded supernatural explanations.


And what explanations are these, exactly ?
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Re: The best arguments for strong atheism

#36  Postby Jireh » Dec 26, 2011 12:13 pm

I.C.37 wrote: The god-concept itself has no rational basis.
.


In what way or kind does naturalism stand on rational basis ?
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Re: The best arguments for strong atheism

#37  Postby Animavore » Dec 26, 2011 12:16 pm

Jireh wrote:
Animavore wrote:All through man's history natural explanations have always superceded supernatural explanations.


And what explanations are these, exactly ?



Natural ones :smug:
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Re: The best arguments for strong atheism

#38  Postby chairman bill » Dec 26, 2011 12:17 pm

Jireh wrote:
chairman bill wrote:
Nope. You're asking for positive reasons for not believing in something.


Nope. I am asking for a explanation, how our universe can come into existence, or exist forever by its own.


No you're not. The opening post was this ...

Jireh wrote:Please present the reasons, which most convince you strong atheism is true. Base it on a positive arguments , not on a negative ( the bible is garbage etc..... )


... which is not the same thing as an explantion of how our universe came into existence.

Now, please provide the reasons for not believing in pixies. Please.

And then you might add an explanation for how your god came into existence.
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Re: The best arguments for strong atheism

#39  Postby redwhine » Dec 26, 2011 12:19 pm

UnderConstruction wrote:
Jireh wrote:Base it on a positive arguments , not on a negative ( the bible is garbage etc..... )


Wouldn't you rather people were honest about the reasons they hold the position that they do?

I do not count myself as a strong theist overall but I do actively reject specific flavours of magic man, based on just that. That the Bible appears to be "garbage" and that every positive claim made by religion (at least with respect to the supernatural elements) has been found wanting.

(My bold/red.)

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Re: The best arguments for strong atheism

#40  Postby UnderConstruction » Dec 26, 2011 12:24 pm

Jireh wrote:
John P. M. wrote:

But you can't have this conversation without soon getting into one theology or other.


I think we actually can. Just answer my initial question. its not about theology, but about strong atheism, and its reasons.


Bt as I already stated in my reply, one of the reasons is rejection of specific religious claims. So to ignore this, you are cherry picking the ones that you evidently feel you have a preprepared, canned response to (ETA: and perhaps seeking to deflect attention away from religion's failings at explaining much of anything perhaps? :ask: ).

In terms of positive claims though, it can be positive claims that lead us to reject the claims of religion. Such as the one often heard that the Earth is approximately 6-10K years old. In response to thins, scientists generally feel confident in making the positive claim that it is in fact closer to 4.5 billion years old. Two positive claims, one with much more credibility and supporting evidence, that might be a factor in leading one to strong atheism.

So you see, you are artificially excluding genuine reasons, for no other reason it would seem, than to facilitate the erection of apologetic faeces. :roll:
Last edited by UnderConstruction on Dec 26, 2011 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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