The best arguments for strong atheism

Jireh · #1 by **Jireh** » Dec 26, 2011 10:01 am

Please present the reasons, which most convince you strong atheism is true. Base it on a positive arguments , not on a negative ( the bible is garbage etc..... )

Ihavenofingerprints · #2 by **Ihavenofingerprints** » Dec 26, 2011 10:15 am

Religions were entirely made up by humans. People who lived thousands of years ago couldn't explain many aspects of reality. Everything from the night sky to existence itself needed to be explained (because humans are curious), and the best/easiest answers were probably supernatural ones.

Just look at how many religions there are. Each one stemming from a different tribe/community that needed answers, and settled for bullshit ones. Also, one might say "gravity is just a concept created by humans" - Yes, but natural philosophers/scientists came to the conclusion that gravity exists through a logical and reasonable process, following the evidence where it takes them. We can repeat their experiments today and confirm their findings.

The people that came up with (today's main) religious myths lived thousands of years ago and probably didn't know much about the world. It's extremely unlikely that they came to their conclusions through a logical and reasonable process IMO.

Anyway, thats my 5 minute rant. Feel free to take it apart.

Ironclad · #3 by **Ironclad** » Dec 26, 2011 10:26 am

The collapse of Natural Theology & the strength of the Scientific Method?
Atheism has its uses, in freeing the mind of unimportant & purposeless activities for one. Time is better served striving for liberating technology or advanced medicine, than it is for chasing ghosts that cannot be shown to exist (or refuse to participate).

Ironclad · #4 by **Ironclad** » Dec 26, 2011 10:29 am

'Strong Atheism' is the only honest position, for me, anything less is just keeping ones mind open for the sake of balance or logic (IMO).

UnderConstruction · #5 by **UnderConstruction** » Dec 26, 2011 10:31 am

Jireh wrote:Base it on a positive arguments , not on a negative ( the bible is garbage etc..... )

Wouldn't you rather people were honest about the reasons they hold the position that they do?

I do not count myself as a strong theist overall but I do actively reject specific flavours of magic man, based on just that. That the Bible appears to be "garbage" and that every positive claim made by religion (at least with respect to the supernatural elements) has been found wanting.

chairman bill · #6 by **chairman bill** » Dec 26, 2011 10:46 am

Well, whilst I say that I'm open to the possibility that a deity might one day reveal herself, I really don't think it will ever happen, 'cos I don't think such beings exist. That 0.00001% uncertainty bit is the same as applies to anything else that is extremely unlikely, like leprechauns or the Tooth Fairy. I suppose that it's possible that in a distant galaxy, there's a star, with a planet, upon which a real Harry Potter attends a real Hogwarts, and magic is real too. Really? No. But I'm as open to the possibility as I am to there being a deity. Why? Just the complete & utter lack of any unambiguous evidence, whatsoever, and the complete absence of any convincing argument for one god over another, makes all f them equally unlikely.

Jireh · #7 by **Jireh** » Dec 26, 2011 10:48 am

Ihavenofingerprints wrote:Religions were entirely made up by humans. People who lived thousands of years ago couldn't explain many aspects of reality. Everything from the night sky to existence itself needed to be explained (because humans are curious), and the best/easiest answers were probably supernatural ones.

Just look at how many religions there are. Each one stemming from a different tribe/community that needed answers, and settled for bullshit ones. Also, one might say "gravity is just a concept created by humans" - Yes, but natural philosophers/scientists came to the conclusion that gravity exists through a logical and reasonable process, following the evidence where it takes them. We can repeat their experiments today and confirm their findings.

The people that came up with (today's main) religious myths lived thousands of years ago and probably didn't know much about the world. It's extremely unlikely that they came to their conclusions through a logical and reasonable process IMO.

Anyway, thats my 5 minute rant. Feel free to take it apart.

Base it on a positive arguments , not on a negative ( the bible is garbage etc..... )

Jireh · #8 by **Jireh** » Dec 26, 2011 10:50 am

Ironclad wrote:The collapse of Natural Theology & the strength of the Scientific Method?

since when does the scientific method of empirical science have something to do with historical sciences ?

Atheism has its uses, in freeing the mind of unimportant & purposeless activities for one.

I have not asked about qualites and purposes, but about truth.

Jireh · #9 by **Jireh** » Dec 26, 2011 10:53 am

chairman bill wrote:Well, whilst I say that I'm open to the possibility that a deity might one day reveal herself, I really don't think it will ever happen, 'cos I don't think such beings exist.

do you believe dark matter exists ? science does, despite the fact it has never been observed.

That 0.00001% uncertainty bit is the same as applies to anything else that is extremely unlikely, like leprechauns or the Tooth Fairy. I suppose that it's possible that in a distant galaxy, there's a star, with a planet, upon which a real Harry Potter attends a real Hogwarts, and magic is real too. Really? No. But I'm as open to the possibility as I am to there being a deity. Why? Just the complete & utter lack of any unambiguous evidence, whatsoever, and the complete absence of any convincing argument for one god over another, makes all f them equally unlikely.

thats again a negative.....

It seems people here have a hard time to present positive arguments for strong atheism......

Made of Stars · **#10** by **Made of Stars** » Dec 26, 2011 10:58 am

Jireh*, you asked for people's reasons, now you're going to pick and choose the ones you like? It's going to be a short discussion.

*Hubris, much?

blindfaith · **#11** by **blindfaith** » Dec 26, 2011 11:11 am

1.Athiesm doesnt drive people to kill/rape/torture in the name of their particular favourite deity
2. delusional athiests are given medical treatment, not beatified or held in high regard.
3. Athiests dont expect special treatment for their non-delusions (tax breaks, etc)
4. Athiests dont expect to treat animals inhumanely for their delusion
5. Athiests dont abuse their childrens genitals/minds to appease any deity
6. living your life using evidence, common sense and logic rather than wishfull thinking and bend-over-backwards-apologism.
7 Athiests dont come around my house trying to push their athiesm on me.

im sure their are plenty of others im certain others will fill in
hope that helps:)

chairman bill · **#12** by **chairman bill** » Dec 26, 2011 11:13 am

But Jireh, you're asking for positive reasons for not believing in something. What things do you believe don't exist? Pixies? What are the positive reasons for your belief in their non-existence? Positives, mind you, no negatives.

John P. M. · **#13** by **John P. M.** » Dec 26, 2011 11:14 am

The thing is, that "weak atheism" really is of no consequence vis a vis "strong atheism". Meaning that if we say there may exist something we would reasonably call god or gods, it wouldn't change anything. Beings that we know nothing about and which don't intervene in any way distinguishable from delusion, misconceptions, wishful thinking and superstition, may as well not exist at all as far as humans are concerned, even if they did exist. We have to have a base standard by which we grant that things exist, or we may as well believe all sorts of things, as long as some people claim them to exist. And if they exist, but have no consequence or influence now or later to our lives as far as we can detect with any certainty, then for all intents and purposes, they don't exist. Or rather, it wouldn't matter.

But you can't have this conversation without soon getting into one theology or other. Because the next thing you'll hear, is "But we do know God, we have the Bible", or "we have the Koran", or "we have the Vedas", or "we have the Book of Mormon", or whatever. Texts with contents indistinguishable from delusion, misconceptions, wishful thinking and superstition.

Scot Dutchy · **#14** by **Scot Dutchy** » Dec 26, 2011 11:24 am

For personally I have no argument. I just not have seen any evidence of the existance of any deity.
There is no argument involved. I will not argue with a theist over the existence of any deity until he comes up with hard scientific evidence until then everything he says is null and void.

As for all those fairy stories that is just what they are fairy stories. People who believe in them should seek help.

Scar · **#15** by **Scar** » Dec 26, 2011 11:30 am

Jireh wrote:
chairman bill wrote:Well, whilst I say that I'm open to the possibility that a deity might one day reveal herself, I really don't think it will ever happen, 'cos I don't think such beings exist.

do you believe dark matter exists ? science does, despite the fact it has never been observed.

Bollocks. As per usual.

Fenrir · **#16** by **Fenrir** » Dec 26, 2011 11:35 am

Please present the reasons, which most convince you theism is true. Base it on a positive arguments, ie those with evidence to support them , not on negative or fanciful ones without supporting evidence ( the bible is true etc..... )

Precambrian Rabbi · **#17** by **Precambrian Rabbi** » Dec 26, 2011 11:36 am

Jireh wrote:It seems people here have a hard time to present positive arguments for strong atheism......

Really? Difficulty providing positive arguments for a negative claim? How odd!

The idiocy is strong in this one or two posts.

Jireh · **#18** by **Jireh** » Dec 26, 2011 11:38 am

blindfaith wrote:1.Athiesm doesnt drive people to kill/rape/torture in the name of their particular favourite deity
2. delusional athiests are given medical treatment, not beatified or held in high regard.
3. Athiests dont expect special treatment for their non-delusions (tax breaks, etc)
4. Athiests dont expect to treat animals inhumanely for their delusion
5. Athiests dont abuse their childrens genitals/minds to appease any deity
6. living your life using evidence, common sense and logic rather than wishfull thinking and bend-over-backwards-apologism.
7 Athiests dont come around my house trying to push their athiesm on me.

im sure their are plenty of others im certain others will fill in
hope that helps:)

It seems people continue to have a hard time to understand, what a positive claim is.

Jireh · **#19** by **Jireh** » Dec 26, 2011 11:39 am

chairman bill wrote:But Jireh, you're asking for positive reasons for not believing in something.

Nope.

Please present the reasons, which most convince you strong atheism is true.

What is difficult to understand this question right ??

Jireh · **#20** by **Jireh** » Dec 26, 2011 11:41 am

John P. M. wrote:

But you can't have this conversation without soon getting into one theology or other.

I think we actually can. Just answer my initial question. its not about theology, but about strong atheism, and its reasons.