The Myth of the Pagan Persecution of Christians

Was this just another false flag operation?

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The Myth of the Pagan Persecution of Christians

#1  Postby Leucius Charinus » Jun 05, 2015 11:49 am

FALSE FLAG - Ideological ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_flag#Ideological

    Proponents of political or religious ideologies will sometimes use false flag tactics. This can be done to discredit or implicate rival groups, create the appearance of enemies when none exist, or create the illusion of organized and directed opposition when in truth, the ideology is simply unpopular with society.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Myth_of_Persecution

    The Myth of Persecution: How Early Christians Invented a Story of Martyrdom is a 2013 book by Candida Moss, a professor of New Testament and Early Christianity at the University of Notre Dame. Moss's thesis is that the traditional idea of the "Age of Martyrdom", when Christians suffered persecution from the Roman authorities and lived in fear of being thrown to the lions, is largely fictional. There was never sustained, targeted persecution of Christians by Imperial Roman authorities.

Hence the aptness of the term "false flag" [literary] operation undertaken by the political entity of the church organisation sometime after it emerged victorious in its conflict with the heretics after Nicaea.

The article continues ....

    Official persecution of Christians by order of the Roman Emperor lasted for at most twelve years of the first three hundred of the Church's history.

Moss writes there was a only a persecution of Christians in the rule of Diocletian.

Has anyone ever read the story Eusebius wrote concerning how the persecution started in the rule of Diocletian? It is very interesting. The Christians hacked into the comms link between Apollo and the priests of Apollo who worked for Diocletian at that time in history. This disruption in the communications link to the divinity was exceedingly important for the Roman Empire and he therefore made an investigation as to who were the hackers.

It's true. Read it. The entire story of Christian persecution is a myth. Extremely appealing to the emotions of the reader; based on pathos.



    Most of the stories of individual martyrs are pure invention, and even the oldest and most historically accurate stories of martyrs and their sufferings have been altered and re-written by later editors, so that it is impossible to know for sure what any of the martyrs actually thought, did or said.

In a revisionist history of Christian origins, the martyrs were the pagans, who were fleeing the revolutionary centralised monotheistic Christian state in the rule of the military dictator Constantine. After their own religions had been prohibited. After their most ancient and highly revered temples had been destroyed (by Constantine's army) and some of the chief priests publically executed. After torture was applied to pagan magistrates. Later in the rule of Constantius (c.358 CE) "numbers without end" were dragged from Antioch and Alexandria to the very first attested religious inquisition - for torture and execution.

So if it is a numbers racket, the pagans had "numbers without end" of martyrs. The Christian Church organisation have yet to score a single historical instance. They had the jackboots on, and they employed forgery. Their propaganda of the Christian persecutions of earlier centuries is myth - pseudo-historical inventions of "Eusebius" and the later victorious "church industry".
Last edited by Leucius Charinus on Jun 05, 2015 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Myth of the Pagan Persecution of Christians

#2  Postby Clive Durdle » Jun 05, 2015 12:03 pm

Course it's true! I studied it at school!

http://www.fullbooks.com/Androcles-and-the-Lion.html
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Re: The Myth of the Pagan Persecution of Christians

#3  Postby Clive Durdle » Jun 05, 2015 12:04 pm

You calling St GB Shaw a liar?
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Re: The Myth of the Pagan Persecution of Christians

#4  Postby Scot Dutchy » Jun 05, 2015 12:11 pm

Leucius Charinus wrote:So if it is a numbers racket


Has it been anything else? With over 41,000 different sects you cant say it is united but always only the term used is xtians even for sects like mormons.
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Re: The Myth of the Pagan Persecution of Christians

#5  Postby Leucius Charinus » Jun 05, 2015 12:15 pm

Clive Durdle wrote:Course it's true! I studied it at school!

http://www.fullbooks.com/Androcles-and-the-Lion.html


George Bernard Shaw seems to have drawn upon "The Acts of Paul", which itself draws on Aesop. Paul baptizers a talking lion in the wilderness and at the end of the story gets thrown to the lions in the arena. The talking lion, now a baptised Christian, saves Paul. Aesop strikes again. A satire on Paul by a nasty heretic.
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Re: The Myth of the Pagan Persecution of Christians

#6  Postby Leucius Charinus » Jun 05, 2015 12:26 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Leucius Charinus wrote:So if it is a numbers racket


Has it been anything else? With over 41,000 different sects you cant say it is united but always only the term used is xtians even for sects like mormons.


In the past century by century the number of different sects diminish until one reaches the very earliest history of the nation of Christians written by the most thoroughly dishonest historian in antiquity named "Eusebius". I put the name of Eusebius in quotes to represent the literary evidence attributed to Eusebius which was preserved by the utterly corrupt church industry from the 4th century and through the dark middle ages where church forgery mills like Pseudo-Isidore flourished.

This transcendental early "nation of Christians" is typically identified by its being persecuted by the nasty pagan Roman Emperors, as attested in forged early Christian letters from the early centuries to Roman Emperors in protest.

But if these persecutions are a pseudo-historical and pathos winning "false flag" operation, where does that leave the nation of Christians before Constantine backed General Jesus and the Chi-Rho?
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Re: The Myth of the Pagan Persecution of Christians

#7  Postby Leucius Charinus » Jun 05, 2015 12:44 pm

Clive Durdle wrote:Course it's true! I studied it at school!

http://www.fullbooks.com/Androcles-and-the-Lion.html



ANDROCLES AND THE LION - BERNARD SHAW

1912

Just read the author's notes at the end of the play ...

Fascinating.

    In this play I have represented one of the Roman persecutions of
    the early Christians, not as the conflict of a false theology
    with a true, but as what all such persecutions essentially are:
    an attempt to suppress a propaganda that seemed to threaten the
    interests involved in the established law and order, organized
    and maintained in the name of religion and justice by politicians
    who are pure opportunist Have-and-Holders. People who are shown
    by their inner light the possibility of a better world based on
    the demand of the spirit for a nobler and more abundant life, not
    for themselves at the expense of others, but for everybody, are
    naturally dreaded and therefore hated by the Have-and-Holders,
    who keep always in reserve two sure weapons against them. The
    first is a persecution effected by the provocation, organization,
    and arming of that herd instinct which makes men abhor all
    departures from custom, and, by the most cruel punishments and
    the wildest calumnies, force eccentric people to behave and
    profess exactly as other people do. The second is by leading the
    herd to war, which immediately and infallibly makes them forget
    everything, even their most cherished and hardwon public
    liberties and private interests, in the irresistible surge of
    their pugnacity and the tense pre-occupation of their terror.

    There is no reason to believe that there was anything more in the
    Roman persecutions than this. The attitude of the Roman Emperor
    and the officers of his staff towards the opinions at issue were
    much the same as those of a modern British Home Secretary towards
    members of the lower middle classes when some pious policeman
    charges them with Bad Taste, technically called blasphemy: Bad
    Taste being a violation of Good Taste, which in such matters
    practically means Hypocrisy. The Home Secretary and the judges
    who try the case are usually far more sceptical and blasphemous
    than the poor men whom they persecute; and their professions of
    horror at the blunt utterance of their own opinions are revolting
    to those behind the scenes who have any genuine religious
    sensibility; but the thing is done because the governing classes,
    provided only the law against blasphemy is not applied to
    themselves, strongly approve of such persecution because it
    enables them to represent their own privileges as part of the
    religion of the country.

    Therefore my martyrs are the martyrs of all time, and my
    persecutors the persecutors of all time. My Emperor, who has no
    sense of the value of common people's lives, and amuses himself
    with killing as carelessly as with sparing, is the sort of
    monster you can make of any silly-clever gentleman by idolizing
    him. We are still so easily imposed on by such idols that one of
    the leading pastors of the Free Churches in London denounced my
    play on the ground that my persecuting Emperor is a very fine
    fellow, and the persecuted Christians ridiculous. From which I
    conclude that a popular pulpit may be as perilous to a man's soul
    as an imperial throne.

...[trimmed]

[LINK ABOVE}
Last edited by Leucius Charinus on Jun 06, 2015 1:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Myth of the Pagan Persecution of Christians

#8  Postby Scot Dutchy » Jun 05, 2015 2:20 pm

Be careful with quote length. Give a link instead.
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Re: The Myth of the Pagan Persecution of Christians

#9  Postby Clive Durdle » Jun 05, 2015 2:51 pm

Probably in commons! I told you he was a saint!
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Re: The Myth of the Pagan Persecution of Christians

#10  Postby Leucius Charinus » Jun 06, 2015 1:19 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:Be careful with quote length. Give a link instead.


Revised Scot. Got a little carried away with the heretical side of George Bernard Shaw.
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Re: The Myth of the Pagan Persecution of Christians

#11  Postby Leucius Charinus » Jun 06, 2015 1:25 am

Clive Durdle wrote:Probably in commons! I told you he was a saint!


Indeed! The power of the sword and the power of the pen.

The Christian persecution is a pseudo-history which has been used as an appeal to the emotions of its readers.

    Persuasion is clearly a sort of demonstration,
    since we are most fully persuaded when we
    consider a thing to have been demonstrated
    Of the modes of persuasion furnished
    by the spoken word there are three kinds. [...]


    Persuasion is achieved by the speaker's personal character
    when the speech is so spoken as to make us think him credible. [...]

    Secondly, persuasion may come through the hearers,
    when the speech stirs their emotions. [...]

    Thirdly, persuasion is effected through the speech itself
    when we have proved a truth or an apparent truth by means
    of the persuasive arguments suitable to the case in question.


    ---- ARISTOTLE, "Rhetoric", 350 BCE


In summary .... Aristotle's Three Modes of Persuasion in Rhetoric


Ethos = Appeal to the audience's sense of honesty and/or authority
Pathos = Appeal to the audience's sense of emotions
Logos = Appeal to the audience's sense of logic

The pseudo-history of the Christian persecutions is pathetic.
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Re: The Myth of the Pagan Persecution of Christians

#12  Postby The_Metatron » Jun 06, 2015 1:43 am

Why should christians have behaved any differently in the past than they do now? Their cry of repression when none exists exists everywhere.

It is irrelevant today, it was irrelevant in the past, if it existed.

What's your point? That christianity has less credibility today because someone made shit up about them in the past? That's a pretty weak critique of the credibility of their worldview.

How about: Christianity has nearly no credibility as a worldview because it is derived from bankrupt fables written by bronze age people who didn't know where the sun went at night?
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Re: The Myth of the Pagan Persecution of Christians

#13  Postby Leucius Charinus » Jun 06, 2015 2:00 am

The_Metatron wrote:Why should christians have behaved any differently in the past than they do now?


They had the backing of the Roman Emperor and the swords of his legions, the most favourable and lawful decrees of the emperor. They were protected from ridicule by Roman law and the majesty of the Emperor.

Their cry of repression when none exists exists everywhere.


This cry of repression is now being recognised for what it is - pseudo-historical polemic against the old pagan religions.

It is irrelevant today, it was irrelevant in the past, if it existed.


History is not irrelevant to the field of ancient history.

What's your point? That christianity has less credibility today because someone made shit up about them in the past? That's a pretty weak critique of the credibility of their worldview.


What sort of a worldview is based upon the fabrication of pseudo-historical bullshit?

How about: Christianity has nearly no credibility as a worldview because it is derived from bankrupt fables written by bronze age people who didn't know where the sun went at night?


The primary author of these fables was not from the bronze age but from the 4th century. His name is Eusebius. He wrote all about the bullshit pseudo-historical persecution of the "nation of Christians" between the years 312-324 CE with a number of revisions to include the Council of Nicaea. One of his major works was "The Martyrs of Palestine". Total bullshit.

The point is that the Roman Emperor Constantine, a military dictator and the publisher of the first widespread publication of the NT Bible codex, also sponsored this Eusebius to write a whole swag of pseudo-historical propaganda which has been held to be true by the ORWELLIAN church industry for the next sixteen centuries.

Unless we know our history we are doomed to repeat it.
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the fabrication of the Christians is a fiction of men composed by wickedness. "

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Re: The Myth of the Pagan Persecution of Christians

#14  Postby pcCoder » Jun 06, 2015 2:11 am

The_Metatron wrote:Why should christians have behaved any differently in the past than they do now?


I apply this to a lot actually. Look at all the propaganda today used to try to make it seem like anything that happens that is against their belief is bad and evil. (Gay legalized? Earthquake? Wrath of god!) The twisting and distorting of anything to make it seem like it fulfills and proves their religion. And so on. So, if they behave this way today, why should I believe they behaved any differently in the past. The foundation of the religion becomes very questionable, after all since it is likely that the same behaviors were there in the past, it is likely that the foundation is just built on propaganda and distortions of events of the time to convince people of that time.
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Re: The Myth of the Pagan Persecution of Christians

#15  Postby Leucius Charinus » Jun 06, 2015 3:53 am

pcCoder wrote: The foundation of the religion becomes very questionable, after all since it is likely that the same behaviors were there in the past, it is likely that the foundation is just built on propaganda and distortions of events of the time to convince people of that time.


Agreed. A sceptical, critical and systematic examination of ancient history in which the "church organisation" is not viewed as some sort of mythological "Divine Institute" but rather as an utterly corrupt "Belief Industry" will expose this [Orwellian] foundation.

    "Who controls the past [Jesus Story] controls the future;
    who controls the present controls the past [Jesus Story]."
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the fabrication of the Christians is a fiction of men composed by wickedness. "

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Re: The Myth of the Pagan Persecution of Christians

#16  Postby The_Metatron » Jun 06, 2015 4:08 am

Leucius Charinus wrote:
The_Metatron wrote:Why should christians have behaved any differently in the past than they do now?

Leucius Charinus wrote:They had the backing of the Roman Emperor and the swords of his legions, the most favourable and lawful decrees of the emperor. They were protected from ridicule by Roman law and the majesty of the Emperor.

Who gives a fuck?
Leucius Charinus wrote:
Their cry of repression when none exists exists everywhere.

This cry of repression is now being recognised for what it is - pseudo-historical polemic against the old pagan religions.
It is irrelevant today, it was irrelevant in the past, if it existed.

History is not irrelevant to the field of ancient history.

What's your point? That christianity has less credibility today because someone made shit up about them in the past? That's a pretty weak critique of the credibility of their worldview.

What sort of a worldview is based upon the fabrication of pseudo-historical bullshit?

Who said that?
Leucius Charinus wrote:
How about: Christianity has nearly no credibility as a worldview because it is derived from bankrupt fables written by bronze age people who didn't know where the sun went at night?

The primary author of these fables was not from the bronze age but from the 4th century. His name is Eusebius. He wrote all about the bullshit pseudo-historical persecution of the "nation of Christians" between the years 312-324 CE with a number of revisions to include the Council of Nicaea. One of his major works was "The Martyrs of Palestine". Total bullshit.

Guess what you missed? I don't give a flying fuck about yet another conspiracy theory, only this one two thousand years old. Christianity is based on bankrupt fables written by bronze age people who didn't know where the sun went at night.
Leucius Charinus wrote:The point is that the Roman Emperor Constantine, a military dictator and the publisher of the first widespread publication of the NT Bible codex, also sponsored this Eusebius to write a whole swag of pseudo-historical propaganda which has been held to be true by the ORWELLIAN church industry for the next sixteen centuries.

Unless we know our history we are doomed to repeat it.

Did you understand what I wrote? Christianity invents persecution right now. Today. All the time. It doesn't make Christianity any more credible that they do this. Whether they did this two thousand years ago is also of no account to the credibility of their worldview.
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Re: The Myth of the Pagan Persecution of Christians

#17  Postby Leucius Charinus » Jun 06, 2015 5:15 am

The_Metatron wrote:Did you understand what I wrote? Christianity invents persecution right now. Today. All the time. It doesn't make Christianity any more credible that they do this.



Did you understand what I wrote in the OP? I can take on board your point about modern Christianity inventing its own persecutions right now, and the lack of credibility of their worldview. The OP is about the history of this "poor persecuted Christian" worldview, which has given rise to the present worldview, and which has recently been exposed as devoid of historical reality.

Whether they did this two thousand years ago is also of no account to the credibility of their worldview.


There are many forms of credibility (or its antithesis) and one of them is historical. Are you arguing that we can learn nothing from history?
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the fabrication of the Christians is a fiction of men composed by wickedness. "

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Re: The Myth of the Pagan Persecution of Christians

#18  Postby The_Metatron » Jun 06, 2015 5:55 am

Leucius Charinus wrote:
The_Metatron wrote:Did you understand what I wrote? Christianity invents persecution right now. Today. All the time. It doesn't make Christianity any more credible that they do this.

Did you understand what I wrote in the OP? I can take on board your point about modern Christianity inventing its own persecutions right now, and the lack of credibility of their worldview. The OP is about the history of this "poor persecuted Christian" worldview, which has given rise to the present worldview, and which has recently been exposed as devoid of historical reality.

Whether they did this two thousand years ago is also of no account to the credibility of their worldview.

There are many forms of credibility (or its antithesis) and one of them is historical. Are you arguing that we can learn nothing from history?

No, you have the penchant for leaping to general conclusions. I have been much more specific.

I say there is nothing useful to learn from whether or not your two thousand (give or take) year old conspiracy theory existed. Christianity was and remains a steaming pile. Governments were, and remain, steaming piles.

You bring nothing new or useful.


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Re: The Myth of the Pagan Persecution of Christians

#19  Postby Leucius Charinus » Jun 06, 2015 7:08 am

The_Metatron wrote:I say there is nothing useful to learn from whether or not your two thousand (give or take) year old conspiracy theory existed.


The Myth of Persecution: How Early Christians Invented a Story of Martyrdom is a 2013 book by Candida Moss which almost completely (except for the rule of Diocletian) exposes the myth of the pagan persecution of Christians as conspiracy of pseudo-historical propaganda. I say there are often things useful to learn in recent studies of ancient history.

Christianity was and remains a steaming pile. Governments were, and remain, steaming piles.


Steaming piles can be RC dated. It may be ascertained precisely when the steaming pile hit the fan.

You bring nothing new or useful.


I bring a systematic, critical and sceptical examination of the ancient history of these steaming piles. You are entitled to be critical of the novelty or usefulness of this approach. But it might help if you explained why you claim that such an examination of ancient history is neither new or useful, especially considering that the propaganda of Christian persecution is being exposed (and not just by myself) as a conspiracy of the Nicene church industry.

The creation of the appearance of enemies when none exist is a type of "false flag" conspiracy.

"There is nothing new in the world except the history you do not know". Harry S Truman
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Re: The Myth of the Pagan Persecution of Christians

#20  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Jun 06, 2015 7:36 am

Leucius Charinus wrote:
The_Metatron wrote:Why should christians have behaved any differently in the past than they do now?


They had the backing of the Roman Emperor and the swords of his legions, the most favourable and lawful decrees of the emperor. They were protected from ridicule by Roman law and the majesty of the Emperor.

Only after Constantine, not before.
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