Wanted: A coherent definition of the Abrahamic god

rainbow · **#41** by **rainbow** » Dec 29, 2011 10:45 am

z8000783 wrote:
chairman bill wrote:Does this thread hold the record for proportion of posts that are off-topic?

I'm waiting for an answer.

You never answered my question.

stijndeloose · **#42** by **stijndeloose** » Dec 29, 2011 10:47 am

rainbow wrote:
stijndeloose wrote:
rainbow wrote:What EXACTLY are you implying by this?

Nothing more than I said. Can we get back on topic?

Sure.
I thought I'd let you explain where you were going with your remark.
Apparently nowhere.

I was trying to find out where you were heading with this:

rainbow wrote:The point is that one doesn't have to be a Theist to contribute to this topic.

Apparently off-topic, as it addresses an argument that no-one here made. :dunno:

Also, you didn't reply to this:

stijndeloose wrote:You already attributed 'infinity' to God here:

rainbow wrote:It is impossible to define the infinite.

Now, unless you're a theist, that attribution of yours is irrelevant to the topic. If the attribution isn't yours, I suggest you take greater care to avoid confusing people.

rainbow wrote:Please point out how this personalisation is relevant to the discussion.

See above.

Is it your attribution? :ask:

monkeyboy · **#43** by **monkeyboy** » Dec 29, 2011 10:47 am

rainbow wrote:
stijndeloose wrote:
rainbow wrote:What EXACTLY are you implying by this?

Nothing more than I said. Can we get back on topic?

Sure.
I thought I'd let you explain where you were going with your remark.
Apparently nowhere.

I think hes stating the obvious, that you have turned up in a thread and done nothing but derail it again. Now can we return to the topic in the OP?

rainbow · **#44** by **rainbow** » Dec 29, 2011 10:56 am

monkeyboy wrote:
rainbow wrote:
stijndeloose wrote:

Nothing more than I said. Can we get back on topic?

Sure.
I thought I'd let you explain where you were going with your remark.
Apparently nowhere.

I think hes stating the obvious, that you have turned up in a thread and done nothing but derail it again. Now can we return to the topic in the OP?

Rubbish.
I made a statement relevant to the topic.

No-one has attempted to refute it, instead there has been an attempt to personalise the discussion.
That was the derail.

...now if you'd like to continue the discussion to where we left off, please continue.

Spearthrower · **#45** by **Spearthrower** » Dec 29, 2011 10:58 am

stijndeloose wrote:
rainbow wrote:
Made of Stars wrote:So how about it theists? Can you provide a coherent definition of god?

It is impossible to define the infinite.

Interesting! So you do consider yourself a theist?

Quite convenient that your "god" is impossible to define, too.

Rainbow is a theist; he's admitted to it in numerous threads. Smoke and mirrors to follow.

rainbow · **#46** by **rainbow** » Dec 29, 2011 11:01 am

stijndeloose wrote:
rainbow wrote:
stijndeloose wrote:

Nothing more than I said. Can we get back on topic?

Sure.
I thought I'd let you explain where you were going with your remark.
Apparently nowhere.

I was trying to find out where you were heading with this:

rainbow wrote:The point is that one doesn't have to be a Theist to contribute to this topic.

Apparently off-topic, as it addresses an argument that no-one here made.

You did with your non-sequitur:

Interesting! So you do consider yourself a theist?

I'm now bored with this derail you started.
Please return to topic.

THWOTH · **#47** by **THWOTH** » Dec 29, 2011 11:24 am

rainbow wrote:
Made of Stars wrote:
Jireh wrote:Please present the reasons, which most convince you strong atheism is true. Base it on a positive arguments , not on a negative ( the bible is garbage etc..... )

In another thread, Jireh posted the above.

On reflection, I came to the question: If a coherent positive argument for a-theism is to be presented, a coherent definition of theism must exist, and specifically, a coherent definition of the object of theism should be provided.

So how about it theists? Can you provide a coherent definition of god? As the common object on this forum is the Abrahamic god (YWHW, the triune god, Allah, etc) let's run with that one. Perhaps once you've come up with a consistent definition, we can have a common base to work from, define atheism, and develop arguments for and against that position.

It is impossible to define the infinite.

What is God such that He can be infinite?

Scot Dutchy · **#48** by **Scot Dutchy** » Dec 29, 2011 11:26 am

What deity can be....................................................anything.

UnderConstruction · **#49** by **UnderConstruction** » Dec 29, 2011 11:34 am

Can an omnipotent, infinite being define himself?

THWOTH · **#50** by **THWOTH** » Dec 29, 2011 11:41 am

UnderConstruction wrote:Can an omnipotent, infinite being define himself?

In the absence of direct, corroborated communication from a deity it falls to us to provide definitions, so...

What is God such that He can be omnipotent and infinite?To simply say that God is that which is omnipotent and infinite is nonsensical in itself. It is akin to saying that God is that which is green - the question remains, what is God such that He is, or (to be charitable) might be, green?

stijndeloose · **#51** by **stijndeloose** » Dec 29, 2011 3:33 pm

rainbow wrote:I'm now bored with this derail you started.

It isn't a derail. In reply to MoS' request for theists to provide a workable definition of god, you said you can't define the infinite. Either that post was purely about infinity, and therefore off-topic, or the post was about infinity being an attribute of said God, in which case your post would contain at least a partial definition of God (i.e. "God is infinite"). Again, though, if that isn't your attribution, I'm fine with that. Only the way you presented it, it sounded like it was.

rainbow · **#52** by **rainbow** » Dec 30, 2011 6:38 am

THWOTH wrote:
rainbow wrote:
Made of Stars wrote:
In another thread, Jireh posted the above.

On reflection, I came to the question: If a coherent positive argument for a-theism is to be presented, a coherent definition of theism must exist, and specifically, a coherent definition of the object of theism should be provided.

So how about it theists? Can you provide a coherent definition of god? As the common object on this forum is the Abrahamic god (YWHW, the triune god, Allah, etc) let's run with that one. Perhaps once you've come up with a consistent definition, we can have a common base to work from, define atheism, and develop arguments for and against that position.

It is impossible to define the infinite.

What is God such that He can be infinite?

No idea. The concept of infinite implies no boundaries, a definition is the setting of boundaries.
Logically impossible.

rainbow · **#53** by **rainbow** » Dec 30, 2011 6:39 am

UnderConstruction wrote:Can an omnipotent, infinite being define himself?

Possibly. An omnipotent being wouldn't be constrained by the rules of logic.

Spearthrower · **#54** by **Spearthrower** » Dec 30, 2011 7:35 am

rainbow wrote:
UnderConstruction wrote:Can an omnipotent, infinite being define himself?

Possibly. An omnipotent being wouldn't be constrained by the rules of logic.

Yay square circles time.

What you're doing rainbow is pushing this god outside the realm of definition. As such, you can surely see why all of your input here has been off-topic - I am sure everyone here has already read all these turgid evasions of providing a definition before, so there's no need for you to regurgitate them here. We're looking for a coherent definition, not an incoherent lack of definition.

stijndeloose · **#55** by **stijndeloose** » Dec 30, 2011 8:14 am

rainbow wrote:No idea. The concept of infinite implies no boundaries, a definition is the setting of boundaries.

That's bullshit. The definition of 'infinity' doesn't set any boundaries to infinity. Any boundaries that the definition of the word 'infinity' implies ('it cannot be finite') are already attributes of infinity itself.

Do you equal 'God' with infinity', rainbow? Are the words synonyms? Or does he have other attributes?

UnderConstruction · **#56** by **UnderConstruction** » Dec 30, 2011 9:39 am

rainbow wrote:
UnderConstruction wrote:Can an omnipotent, infinite being define himself?

Possibly. An omnipotent being wouldn't be constrained by the rules of logic.

So to try and have a logical discussion about such a being is a futile undertaking then (over and above any futility involved in discussing it with a certain forum member)?

Made of Stars · **#57** by **Made of Stars** » Dec 30, 2011 10:14 am

So basically we've got nothing?

rainbow · **#58** by **rainbow** » Dec 30, 2011 10:16 am

Spearthrower wrote:
rainbow wrote:
UnderConstruction wrote:Can an omnipotent, infinite being define himself?

Possibly. An omnipotent being wouldn't be constrained by the rules of logic.

Yay square circles time.

What you're doing rainbow is pushing this god outside the realm of definition.

You win the bumper prize.
Well done!

rainbow · **#59** by **rainbow** » Dec 30, 2011 10:19 am

stijndeloose wrote:
rainbow wrote:No idea. The concept of infinite implies no boundaries, a definition is the setting of boundaries.

That's bullshit. The definition of 'infinity' doesn't set any boundaries to infinity. Any boundaries that the definition of the word 'infinity' implies ('it cannot be finite') are already attributes of infinity itself.

Do you equal 'God' with infinity', rainbow?

No.

Are the words synonyms?

No.

Or does he have other attributes?

Probably.
Read your Bible for further details.

Made of Stars · **#60** by **Made of Stars** » Dec 30, 2011 10:26 am

Rainbow, good on you for having a go, but nothing you've posted is specific to the personified god of the Abrahamic religions. A deist would be happy with what you've posited, but we're looking for characteristics of a theistic god. So, what are the characteristics of this particular god that compels so many people to worship it?

Wanted: A coherent definition of the Abrahamic god

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