What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5201  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Nov 29, 2017 2:11 pm

zulumoose wrote:
Either way, the discusssion is about his argument that the premises don't have to be demonstrably true, just true.


They don't as long as he precedes all his statements based on the arguments with a disclaimer.
In order to avoid that with those who do not accept the premises as true he must be able to defend his premises.

My point exactly.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5202  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Nov 29, 2017 7:18 pm

However what you will see is the creation account and the bible unchanged whilst science changes the story once again.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5203  Postby Greyman » Nov 30, 2017 10:30 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:Either way, the discusssion is about his argument that the premises don't have to be demonstrably true, just true.
Which begs the question: how do you know the premises are true if you cannot demonstrate them to be so?
You don't. All you can do is accept them provisionally, make predictions based on them, then test those to ensure the premises do not infer a falsehood. However, if the tests confirm the prediction, all you do is increase confidence, and should keep testing.

Of course, you have to be honest about the process, and willing to discard explanations that are falsified and then seek better ones, rather than ignoring falsifying evidence, or fabricating adhoc excuses why the prediction fails.
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
However what you will see is the creation account and the bible unchanged whilst science changes the story once again.
I wonder why...
"And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit." - T. Tick.
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5204  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Dec 01, 2017 9:54 am

Greyman wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:Either way, the discusssion is about his argument that the premises don't have to be demonstrably true, just true.
Which begs the question: how do you know the premises are true if you cannot demonstrate them to be so?
You don't. All you can do is accept them provisionally, make predictions based on them, then test those to ensure the premises do not infer a falsehood. However, if the tests confirm the prediction, all you do is increase confidence, and should keep testing.

Of course, you have to be honest about the process, and willing to discard explanations that are falsified and then seek better ones, rather than ignoring falsifying evidence, or fabricating adhoc excuses why the prediction fails.

:nod:


Thomas Eshuis wrote:
However what you will see is the creation account and the bible unchanged whilst science changes the story once again.
I wonder why...[/quote]
It's the celebration of blind dogmatism that I find one of the scarier things about theism.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5205  Postby NamelessFaceless » Dec 06, 2017 3:56 pm

Oh, here's a good one . . .

Parent wants book about book bans banned

MILTON — Santa Rosa County Superintendent of Schools Tim Wyrosdick says he will not ban Ray Bradbury’s “Fahrenheit 451” from the school curriculum despite a Milton mother’s request that it be re-evaluated.

Sonja McCall-Strehlow filed the formal request Oct. 10, questioning whether the book was appropriate because of its use of profanity and using God’s name in vain. She also had concerns about Bradbury including sex, drugs, suicide, murder and abortion in the book.

“I’m very disappointed in the whole system,” McCall-Strehlow said Thursday. “School is a place where children are supposed to be safe, but the material being read isn’t safe content.”

. . .

McCall-Strehlow said she first heard about the book assignment when her 13-year-old daughter asked her what a “bastard” was.



http://www.srpressgazette.com/news/2017 ... ans-banned


:facepalm:
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5206  Postby DavidMcC » Dec 06, 2017 4:10 pm

NamelessFaceless wrote:Oh, here's a good one . . .

Parent wants book about book bans banned

MILTON — Santa Rosa County Superintendent of Schools Tim Wyrosdick says he will not ban Ray Bradbury’s “Fahrenheit 451” from the school curriculum despite a Milton mother’s request that it be re-evaluated.

Sonja McCall-Strehlow filed the formal request Oct. 10, questioning whether the book was appropriate because of its use of profanity and using God’s name in vain. She also had concerns about Bradbury including sex, drugs, suicide, murder and abortion in the book.

“I’m very disappointed in the whole system,” McCall-Strehlow said Thursday. “School is a place where children are supposed to be safe, but the material being read isn’t safe content.”

. . .

McCall-Strehlow said she first heard about the book assignment when her 13-year-old daughter asked her what a “bastard” was.



http://www.srpressgazette.com/news/2017 ... ans-banned


:facepalm:

No way should "Fahrenheit 451" be banned. Perhaps there could be a limit on its airing time, or the mother concerned should either explain to her innocent daughter what the word means, or limit the hours at which she watches TV.

EDIT: Either way, I'm not sure that this has anything at all to do with what believers say.
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5207  Postby DavidMcC » Dec 06, 2017 4:17 pm

... I suppose that this kind of censorship is associated with religious belief, but I doubt that this is always the case.
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5208  Postby BlackBart » Dec 06, 2017 6:26 pm

DavidMcC wrote:
NamelessFaceless wrote:Oh, here's a good one . . .

Parent wants book about book bans banned

MILTON — Santa Rosa County Superintendent of Schools Tim Wyrosdick says he will not ban Ray Bradbury’s “Fahrenheit 451” from the school curriculum despite a Milton mother’s request that it be re-evaluated.

Sonja McCall-Strehlow filed the formal request Oct. 10, questioning whether the book was appropriate because of its use of profanity and using God’s name in vain. She also had concerns about Bradbury including sex, drugs, suicide, murder and abortion in the book.

“I’m very disappointed in the whole system,” McCall-Strehlow said Thursday. “School is a place where children are supposed to be safe, but the material being read isn’t safe content.”

. . .

McCall-Strehlow said she first heard about the book assignment when her 13-year-old daughter asked her what a “bastard” was.



http://www.srpressgazette.com/news/2017 ... ans-banned


:facepalm:

No way should "Fahrenheit 451" be banned. Perhaps there could be a limit on its airing time, or the mother concerned should either explain to her innocent daughter what the word means, or limit the hours at which she watches TV.


You know it's a book right?

EDIT: Either way, I'm not sure that this has anything at all to do with what believers say.


Probably something to do with taking umbrage at 'taking God's name in vain'? :ask:
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5209  Postby NamelessFaceless » Dec 06, 2017 8:12 pm

BlackBart wrote:
DavidMcC wrote:
NamelessFaceless wrote:Oh, here's a good one . . .

Parent wants book about book bans banned

MILTON — Santa Rosa County Superintendent of Schools Tim Wyrosdick says he will not ban Ray Bradbury’s “Fahrenheit 451” from the school curriculum despite a Milton mother’s request that it be re-evaluated.

Sonja McCall-Strehlow filed the formal request Oct. 10, questioning whether the book was appropriate because of its use of profanity and using God’s name in vain. She also had concerns about Bradbury including sex, drugs, suicide, murder and abortion in the book.

“I’m very disappointed in the whole system,” McCall-Strehlow said Thursday. “School is a place where children are supposed to be safe, but the material being read isn’t safe content.”

. . .

McCall-Strehlow said she first heard about the book assignment when her 13-year-old daughter asked her what a “bastard” was.



http://www.srpressgazette.com/news/2017 ... ans-banned


:facepalm:

No way should "Fahrenheit 451" be banned. Perhaps there could be a limit on its airing time, or the mother concerned should either explain to her innocent daughter what the word means, or limit the hours at which she watches TV.


You know it's a book right?




:lol:

I saw the movie version, actually, and it was crap. The book was much better.

BlackBart wrote:
DavidMcC wrote:
EDIT: Either way, I'm not sure that this has anything at all to do with what believers say.


Probably something to do with taking umbrage at 'taking God's name in vain'? :ask:


Yes, that's what I was thinking. And knowing the people in this area (this is a local story for me) it's my go-to assumption.
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5210  Postby Agrippina » Dec 07, 2017 10:53 am

We all have those relatives who we know about, sort of keep in contact with, but mostly we won't invite them to our weddings, or make the effort to visit them if we're happening to be passing their town. Last night one of those people in my family finally "passed on" after a year of a cancer experience that was the stuff of euthanasia-supporters' nightmares. When he and my niece married, she was only too aware that I would not be interested in a relationship with him, so we only saw each other when meeting was inevitable and happened at her mother's home. The reason being that he was a member of both the Seventh Day Adventist and some bigotry-driven Afrikaans conservative cult. Covering his bases on all fronts it seems.

For some reason that no one can explain, my niece, who was a bit of a rebel as a teenager, fell for all this and did as she was told, including the sleeved dresses, and subservience to the husband. When he was diagnosed, all the forces of religion were called in to ask for Jesus to intervene, and all the family members to help with the torture after becoming incapacitated until the death. From my experience of witnessing cancer deaths, I know that the ability to not only eat but to keep it down becomes compromised a while before coma and death actually occur, but they were force-feeding him, turning him, washing him, messing around with his body, and the reason being, they wanted him to remember how well they cared for him when he was with Jesus so he would prepare a good place for them when their time comes.

Even last night, after he'd slipped into a coma, when he experienced brain bleeds, they called in the doctors and paramedics to "help" him, "save" him. But he died anyway. Now there's the big funeral with open coffin and religious ceremonies ahead, but luckily I'm excused. They don't want my atheist arse there. This is how the religious deal with death. It's horrific. Thank atheism my family know I don't want any of this crap when my bell rings.
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5211  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Dec 09, 2017 9:49 pm

This afternoon there was a march of primarily Christians 'for life'.
They were protesting abortion and euthanasia.
They even held a memorial for the 'murdered' infants and people who chose euthanasia.
People like this:
Personally, I am against abortion and euthanasia, but who am I to decide those matters for someone else?

So far, so good right?
But then he continues with this dreck:
I cannot determine whether someone's suffering is to great, but I can point out the gift that the Lord has given us and if someone still wants to step out of life, it's their choice.[/quote]
What a great god eh? To give people the gifts of unbearable mental and/or physical suffering. :yuk:
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5212  Postby DavidMcC » Dec 10, 2017 12:13 pm

BlackBart wrote:...
You know it's a book right?

...

Blackbart, I struggle to understand the logic of that question. I first encountered F45 as a film, but I was always aware that it was originally a book. I didn''t think it was necessary to say that, but with you around, I'm not so sure. :roll:
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5213  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Dec 11, 2017 6:32 am

"We don't know the universe had an absolute beginning"

The second law of thermodynamics disagrees with that statement. The nature of entropy dictates that the available energy in the universe cannot remain in a state where it can be used for chemical reactions. Eventually there will come a point in the universe where the available energy is used up and is transformed into a form where it cannot be used for anything again. Stars then can no longer be made, current stars will one day decay into nothing, life within the universe will be choked out. Even matter will begin to decay until the universe itself, without usable energy to sustain itself, is just a few degrees above absolute zero, and all life is rendered impossible.

To suggest that they universe possibly has no absolute beginning, asserts that it is eternal. Were out universe eternal, then there already would have been an eternity for this to have happened. You might ask why the universe cannot simply start over again in a new big bang and recycle itself. However, the nature of entropy says that there would be no usable energy for another big bang to happen. The universe just stops and decays like a corpse. And we know this to be true because the laws of thermodynamics are absolutes in the universe. Matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed, and entropy will always increase. This is why even atheist physicists agree that the universe, BY NATURE, had to have a beginning.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5214  Postby Agrippina » Dec 11, 2017 8:51 am

Further on the battiness that is middle South Africa's right-wing religion. The widow is expected to wear black for a year. She has to go to the funeral today, dressed from head to toe, and then to change her wardrobe for black for the next twelve months. This after spending a small fortune on coffin with all the trimmings, flowers, and a meal for all the gawkers who've come to "pay their respects" but mostly to hear what they're inheriting. Wasn't it something Jesus said about not amassing fortunes on earth or something? Funny how these people spend their lives praying to Jesus but don't take a second's notice about not praying out loud, or making lots of money to leave to the vultures left behind when they die. Thank my atheism I wasn't invited. I think they know a thing or two about the way I feel about this stupidity.
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5215  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Dec 13, 2017 2:25 pm

But the majority of humanity believe in God, however.

People disagree about the nature of "God," but the point remains that the majority of the world believes in God, or the supernatural, if you will.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5216  Postby aban57 » Dec 13, 2017 2:28 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
But the majority of humanity believe in God, however.

People disagree about the nature of "God," but the point remains that the majority of the world believes in God, or the supernatural, if you will.


Most kids believe in Santa/Saint Nicholas too. It must mean that he exists. Somewhere.
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5217  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Dec 13, 2017 3:06 pm

aban57 wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
But the majority of humanity believe in God, however.

People disagree about the nature of "God," but the point remains that the majority of the world believes in God, or the supernatural, if you will.


Most kids believe in Santa/Saint Nicholas too. It must mean that he exists. Somewhere.

It's worse.
This quote is ignorant or dishonest attempt to conflate the Abrahamic god with the generic term god, as well as conflating it with supernatural.
The fact is the majority of the world isn't Christian and less than 60% of the population is a follower of an Abrahamic faith.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5218  Postby Arcanyn » Dec 13, 2017 4:39 pm

Their argument is basically "most people read fiction, Harry Potter is a work of fiction, so most people read Harry Potter".
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5219  Postby SafeAsMilk » Dec 13, 2017 4:44 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:This afternoon there was a march of primarily Christians 'for life'.
They were protesting abortion and euthanasia.
They even held a memorial for the 'murdered' infants and people who chose euthanasia.
People like this:
Personally, I am against abortion and euthanasia, but who am I to decide those matters for someone else?

So far, so good right?
But then he continues with this dreck:
I cannot determine whether someone's suffering is to great, but I can point out the gift that the Lord has given us and if someone still wants to step out of life, it's their choice.

What a great god eh? To give people the gifts of unbearable mental and/or physical suffering. :yuk:

As thoughtless as their view is, I think it's far more important to acknowledge and encourage with the greatest possible vigor the idea that it isn't their choice to make.
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5220  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Dec 13, 2017 6:19 pm

Arcanyn wrote:Their argument is basically "most people read fiction, Harry Potter is a work of fiction, so most people read Harry Potter".

Yep.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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