f you acknowledged that the God of the Bible is truth, but chose not to worship God, that is suicide because the Bible clearly states eternal death for all who choose not to follow. As if you knew the gun was loaded, but you put it to your head and pulled the trigger despite your knowledge of the truth.

zulumoose wrote:There's not really much wrong with that statement.
If (according to their beliefs) you are not "saved", then of course you are subject to that which you have not been saved from.
The beliefs themselves may be batty, but that statement as worded appears correct because of the prerequisite it starts with.

Thomas Eshuis wrote:Organised by a group at my univeristy:
http://www.sggroningen.nl/nl/evenement/humanity%E2%80%99s-diary-genesis-bible

University Colloquium
Humanity’s Diary: The Genesis of the Bible
Carel van Schaik

The Bible is the bestselling book of all time. It has been venerated--or excoriated--as God's word, but so far no one has read the Bible for what it is: humanity's diary, chronicling our ancestors' valiant attempts to cope with the trials and tribulations of unexpected new problems.
Evolutionary anthropologist Carel van Schaik advances a new view of Homo sapiens' cultural evolution. The Bible, he argues, was written to make sense of the single greatest change in history: the transition from egalitarian hunter-gatherer to agricultural societies. Religion arose as a strategy to cope with the unprecedented levels of epidemic disease, violence, inequality, and injustice that confronted us when we abandoned the bush--and which still confront us today. Armed with the latest findings from cognitive science, behavioral biology, evolutionary biology, and archeology, Van Schaik shows how these changes can be seen as inspiring the Hebrew Bible (the Old Testament). He examines the bible as an attempt to formulate solutions for the many new problems which were seen as punishment for transgressions and for which no biological adaptations existed, in order to achieve conditions more in tune with human nature.

Carel van Schaik is a behavioral and evolutionary biologist and works as professor of biological anthropology in Zurich. He investigates the social evolution in primates, with special emphasis on how data and models inform the human condition. He is also a member of the KNAW. Together with co-author Kai Michel he wrote The Good Book of Human Nature (in Dutch Het oerboek van de mens), an evolutionary interpretation of the Bible.

On Facebook it is promoted like this:

Carel van Schaik will show us on March 15 that the Bible is more than just a pillar for religious belief: it is a pioneering attempt at scientific inquiry.

Calilasseia wrote:

Thomas Eshuis wrote:Organised by a group at my univeristy:
http://www.sggroningen.nl/nl/evenement/humanity%E2%80%99s-diary-genesis-bible

University Colloquium
Humanity’s Diary: The Genesis of the Bible
Carel van Schaik

The Bible is the bestselling book of all time. It has been venerated--or excoriated--as God's word, but so far no one has read the Bible for what it is: humanity's diary, chronicling our ancestors' valiant attempts to cope with the trials and tribulations of unexpected new problems.
Evolutionary anthropologist Carel van Schaik advances a new view of Homo sapiens' cultural evolution. The Bible, he argues, was written to make sense of the single greatest change in history: the transition from egalitarian hunter-gatherer to agricultural societies. Religion arose as a strategy to cope with the unprecedented levels of epidemic disease, violence, inequality, and injustice that confronted us when we abandoned the bush--and which still confront us today. Armed with the latest findings from cognitive science, behavioral biology, evolutionary biology, and archeology, Van Schaik shows how these changes can be seen as inspiring the Hebrew Bible (the Old Testament). He examines the bible as an attempt to formulate solutions for the many new problems which were seen as punishment for transgressions and for which no biological adaptations existed, in order to achieve conditions more in tune with human nature.

Carel van Schaik is a behavioral and evolutionary biologist and works as professor of biological anthropology in Zurich. He investigates the social evolution in primates, with special emphasis on how data and models inform the human condition. He is also a member of the KNAW. Together with co-author Kai Michel he wrote The Good Book of Human Nature (in Dutch Het oerboek van de mens), an evolutionary interpretation of the Bible.

On Facebook it is promoted like this:

Carel van Schaik will show us on March 15 that the Bible is more than just a pillar for religious belief: it is a pioneering attempt at scientific inquiry.

Well I've stated in the past, that mythology was humanity's first attempt to perform something resembling a scientific inquiry into the world, but one that failed because it didn't use genuine scientific methods. Unfortunately, that detail will almost certainly be lost in the Facebook dross clinging to this work.

Calilasseia wrote:That may be the case, but an evolutionary anthropologist seems like a strange choice of author to go down the presuppositionalism route.

Though any genuinely critical analysis of mythology as an attempt to make sense of the world, should point straight away to the fact that mythology singularly failed to achieve this aim in a substantive manner, for the reason I've cited.

You mean Christianity didn’t happen? What about it isn’t “true”, I wonder? We have the Jewish nation to this day along with the descendants of Isaac’s half “donkey man” brother, Ishmael, still at war with one another after thousands of years.. we have the moral divide between good and evil that resulted from believing the ever first told lie, in the Garden of Eden. We have the outcome of that “sin”, which was told would result in death for all of mankind. And as told, 100% of all people die. We have the historicity of Jesus, and His lineage described through the Jews. We have the sacrificial system that later evolved into Christ’s teachings, which perfectly aligns with the corruption of the human heart and the desire to restore man’s hearts and reconcile him to the Father. We have archeological finds galore proving the placing of many descriptions in the Scriptures. We have the witnesses of Christ’s resurrection being energized even unto death, to bring the Good News of the Gospel to all the world which they did to their dying breath. What exactly isn’t true?

We have a Book that says God did it. Where's yours saying otherwise

Calilasseia wrote:

Thomas Eshuis wrote:Organised by a group at my univeristy:
http://www.sggroningen.nl/nl/evenement/humanity%E2%80%99s-diary-genesis-bible

University Colloquium
Humanity’s Diary: The Genesis of the Bible
Carel van Schaik

The Bible is the bestselling book of all time. It has been venerated--or excoriated--as God's word, but so far no one has read the Bible for what it is: humanity's diary, chronicling our ancestors' valiant attempts to cope with the trials and tribulations of unexpected new problems.
Evolutionary anthropologist Carel van Schaik advances a new view of Homo sapiens' cultural evolution. The Bible, he argues, was written to make sense of the single greatest change in history: the transition from egalitarian hunter-gatherer to agricultural societies. Religion arose as a strategy to cope with the unprecedented levels of epidemic disease, violence, inequality, and injustice that confronted us when we abandoned the bush--and which still confront us today. Armed with the latest findings from cognitive science, behavioral biology, evolutionary biology, and archeology, Van Schaik shows how these changes can be seen as inspiring the Hebrew Bible (the Old Testament). He examines the bible as an attempt to formulate solutions for the many new problems which were seen as punishment for transgressions and for which no biological adaptations existed, in order to achieve conditions more in tune with human nature.

Carel van Schaik is a behavioral and evolutionary biologist and works as professor of biological anthropology in Zurich. He investigates the social evolution in primates, with special emphasis on how data and models inform the human condition. He is also a member of the KNAW. Together with co-author Kai Michel he wrote The Good Book of Human Nature (in Dutch Het oerboek van de mens), an evolutionary interpretation of the Bible.

On Facebook it is promoted like this:

Carel van Schaik will show us on March 15 that the Bible is more than just a pillar for religious belief: it is a pioneering attempt at scientific inquiry.

Well I've stated in the past, that mythology was humanity's first attempt to perform something resembling a scientific inquiry into the world, but one that failed because it didn't use genuine scientific methods. Unfortunately, that detail will almost certainly be lost in the Facebook dross clinging to this work.

Moonwatcher wrote:I've long thought the Cain and Abel story resulted from a society that was starting to transition from hunter-gatherer to agricultural with the hunter-gatherers still mostly being in charge and an agricultural existence being an innovative idea hence Cain is the bad guy of the story and Abel, a hunter-gatherer, is the good guy. How better to make it clear that the hunter-gatherer existence is the better choice than to have "God" say so?

//The entire fossil record and every completed genome are empirical evidence for evolution.//

They are empirical evidence of Intelligent design and creation, not evolution.

Thomas Eshuis

//Nonsense. If someone were to label you accurately as a cultist or blind believer, you'd be complaining about being insulted.//

Well, if you are insulted by the truth,then that is your problem, not mine. Good luck with that.

//Furthermore acknowledging the fact of evolution and the scientific theory that accompanies it is nowhere near a faith based position. Much less a cult.//

LOL!!!! Try again.

The REAL fact is that the emergence of new genera, families, etc., from a common ancestor, through an accumulation of genetic mutations, has never EVER been observed by anyone.

IOW: The claim that that event has ever taken place, is nothing more than a made-up store invented from imagination by the priests in the evolution cult who call themselves "scientists"... and yet you seriously believe that their made-up story is an actual fact. That speaks VOLUMES about how deeply you have been indoctrinated into the their cult.

//Since your OP demonstrates that you do not understand what evolution is, you've no basis to assert it is made-up.
All you offer are straw-men attacks and blind dismissal.//

And yet after multiple days of huffing and puffing, you have consistently failed to credibly refute a single fact that I have shared on this page. Seems legit.

The truth of the matter is that the tired old "yOU DoN't uNDerSTAnD MuH EvoLUtionZ," or "yOU DoN't uNDerSTanD mUh scIENCE" are the most used rescuing devices among evolution cultists, whenever they are presented with real facts or arguments that they cannot credibly refute.

I have a rock-solid bases for posting the facts in the OP, as I have already explained above in this same comment. Try again.

//Nope, that would be your god.
Speciation has been repeatedly demonstrated. The existence of any god hasn't.//

The existence of God is self evident. We have an entire universe full of proof of his existence. The issue is not a lack of proof. The issue it that atheists are habitual truth deniers who are adamantly determined to remain willfully ignorant.

Also, nice straw man.Examples of alleged speciation are irrelevant to this conversation. I clearly specified "the creation of a new family, or even a new genus," neither of which have EVER been observed by anyone.

I purposefully excluded "species," because the characteristics that determine what species an organism gets classified as are not well defined, or fully agreed upon in the science industry. Therefore what some claim is "speciation," really shows the failures of the taxonomic classification system, more so than it does any legitimate evolution.

Try again.

//Typical creationist burden shifting.
YOU are making the claims, it is up to you to provide evidence.
You don't get to blindly assert they are facts and that others have to disprove it.//

I haven't blindly asserted anything. I have done my homework.

It is a FACT that the emergence of new genera, families, etc., from a common ancestor, through an accumulation of genetic mutations, has never EVER been observed by anyone.

It is a FACT that no one has EVER observed the evolution of all of the life into the diversity that we see on the planet, from a single shared common ancestor.

If you want to credibly refute those facts, then by all means, bring it to the table. There should be hundreds of papers written about such a monumental event. You cannot though, because they are indisputable facts. Prove me wrong. A single example will do... just ONE. I'll wait.

murshid wrote:.
I hope this is satire.