What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5741  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Dec 09, 2018 5:40 pm

After pointing out that atheism isn't the belief that gods don't exist:
Interesting claim that atheism has no requirement of belief. That would require 100 percent knowledge which we could agree is not possible. I do see how a framework could be established that allows this idea you propose but the framework would have presuppositions that ultimately would require belief unless we are back to saying this framework can be chosen because 100% of knowledge is known and therefore choose it.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5742  Postby Alan B » Dec 09, 2018 9:11 pm

I see. So a non-belief implies 100% knowledge. Does that also mean that, therefore, a belief requires no knowledge... :whistle:
I have NO BELIEF in the existence of a God or gods. I do not have to offer evidence nor do I have to determine absence of evidence because I do not ASSERT that a God does or does not or gods do or do not exist.
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5743  Postby Arcanyn » Dec 09, 2018 11:45 pm

Remember that the term "gods" includes such beings as Santa Claus. Do we need omniscience to be justified in saying, "well, I'm not really convinced Santa's a thing."?
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5744  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Dec 10, 2018 9:29 am

Arcanyn wrote:Remember that the term "gods" includes such beings as Santa Claus. Do we need omniscience to be justified in saying, "well, I'm not really convinced Santa's a thing."?

I was tempted to ask them if they had a 100% knowledge that Zeus and Vishnu did not exist, but since their very first statement was so devoid of logic and reading comprehension I decided not to, to avoid a likely derail.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5745  Postby Arcanyn » Dec 10, 2018 10:00 am

Logic's pretty futile when dealing with fantasists. Their priority will always be to preserve the fantasy at all costs, because they don't want to give up what believing the fantasy offers them (which in a lot of cases is the feeling of superiority that holding to the fantasy provides).
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5746  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Dec 12, 2018 7:18 am

Interesting comments. So that rocks have no belief in gods, this means rocks are atheists? If the statement “there is no God or gods” is not a claim or a belief then it cannot be true or false. If the statement is meant to be understood as not a claim of any kind then it is meaningless. You asked how does a lack of belief require knowledge. To know one has a lack of belief is a statement of knowing something, of knowledge. I was not saying that to believe you have to have 100 percent knowledge. Weighing the evidence one forms a belief. Perhaps we could say you believe in not holding the belief that a God or gods exist. It seems many of your statements rests on a need for a person to hold convictions or beliefs.

Again with the 'rocks are atheists' nonsense. :sigh:
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5747  Postby Aca » Dec 14, 2018 8:26 am

not say, but write a book about :mrgreen:
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5748  Postby Arcanyn » Dec 15, 2018 12:26 am

Yeah, because if you want advice on afterlife sex the best place to go is to a book written by an afterlife virgin. How could they have possibly got their information about what sex is like in the afterlife? It's not like they could have gone around bonking a bunch of dead people to . . . oh. Never mind.
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5749  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Dec 17, 2018 8:37 am

So much wrong in one post:
who are you arguing with? I said atheism is the belief that God doesn’t exist and that it is still a belief. Atheism isn’t like a court room case it’s like a theory in a scientific lab. There’s two beliefs atheism and Christianity which one is right? Atheism is not a neutral stance and is in fact a claim.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5750  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Dec 17, 2018 8:39 am

How often hypcoricy and Christianity go hand in hand:
Just answer the question man, sarcasm is not needed and it is obnoxious. Save it for your teenage friends. I don't want to put words in your mouth. Are you saying you don't believe in Zeus and the God of the Bible is like Zeus?
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5751  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Dec 17, 2018 1:08 pm

Why do theists struggle so much with the distinction between: I do not believe X and I believe not-X?
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5752  Postby Scot Dutchy » Dec 17, 2018 1:28 pm

What gets me with theists is their refusal to discuss the universe which hardly gets a mention in creationism. It took 6 days to make this rock but the universe took no time. The answer is obvious the goat fuckers had no concept of it. The heaven was supported by pillars and was just a fancy curtain. Even today it still has not been part of the story. Creationists just cant talk about it but waste plenty of time talking how amazingly the animals have been created.
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5753  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Dec 17, 2018 2:32 pm

"I don't believe that gods exist." "That is not the same as claiming that gods do not exist"
Yes, it is the same. Everything is a personal decision. Including the belief in God. Atheist semantics are truly a thing of beauty, quite shifty indeed XD
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5754  Postby aban57 » Dec 17, 2018 2:39 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
"I don't believe that gods exist." "That is not the same as claiming that gods do not exist"
Yes, it is the same. Everything is a personal decision. Including the belief in God. Atheist semantics are truly a thing of beauty, quite shifty indeed XD

That's because we still use that fucking word "believe". How are they supposed to understand (or believe) that atheism is not a belief system if we keep using that word ? We're playing in their field there.
I don't "don't believe" that gods exist, there is simply no evidence for their existence. No belief needed there.
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5755  Postby Fenrir » Dec 17, 2018 2:44 pm

Try "I don't find the claims of religion credible".
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5756  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Dec 17, 2018 2:49 pm

Fenrir wrote:Try "I don't find the claims of religion credible".

The type if Christians I quoted would interpet that as the believe that gods existence is not credible and assert that you/I would have to prove that. They're so blinded by their simplistic ideology that I've decided to stop engaging with them.

@aban
Not having a belief is not a belief itself. If you say to these people that there is no evidence they will still ask you if you belief in god. And when you answer with no, assert that you believe god does not exist.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5757  Postby aban57 » Dec 17, 2018 2:55 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Fenrir wrote:Try "I don't find the claims of religion credible".

The type if Christians I quoted would interpet that as the believe that gods existence is not credible and assert that you/I would have to prove that. They're so blinded by their simplistic ideology that I've decided to stop engaging with them.

@aban
Not having a belief is not a belief itself. If you say to these people that there is no evidence they will still ask you if you belief in god. And when you answer with no, assert that you believe god does not exist.


That's the problem. You don't answer with "no". You explain what a belief is, and that grown-ups shouldn't have those anymore.
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5758  Postby laklak » Dec 17, 2018 3:17 pm

Them - Your atheism is a belief.

Me - whatever.
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5759  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Dec 17, 2018 4:14 pm

aban57 wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Fenrir wrote:Try "I don't find the claims of religion credible".

The type if Christians I quoted would interpet that as the believe that gods existence is not credible and assert that you/I would have to prove that. They're so blinded by their simplistic ideology that I've decided to stop engaging with them.

@aban
Not having a belief is not a belief itself. If you say to these people that there is no evidence they will still ask you if you belief in god. And when you answer with no, assert that you believe god does not exist.


That's the problem. You don't answer with "no". You explain what a belief is, and that grown-ups shouldn't have those anymore.

You and I agree on this, but the people I've quoted above are hampered by their ideological blinkers. They would just dismiss your argument by calling it semantic games, all the while playing semantic bait-and-switching with words like belief and knowledge.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5760  Postby aban57 » Dec 17, 2018 4:26 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
aban57 wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Fenrir wrote:Try "I don't find the claims of religion credible".

The type if Christians I quoted would interpet that as the believe that gods existence is not credible and assert that you/I would have to prove that. They're so blinded by their simplistic ideology that I've decided to stop engaging with them.

@aban
Not having a belief is not a belief itself. If you say to these people that there is no evidence they will still ask you if you belief in god. And when you answer with no, assert that you believe god does not exist.


That's the problem. You don't answer with "no". You explain what a belief is, and that grown-ups shouldn't have those anymore.

You and I agree on this, but the people I've quoted above are hampered by their ideological blinkers. They would just dismiss your argument by calling it semantic games, all the while playing semantic bait-and-switching with words like belief and knowledge.

I didn't say it would work, I said that's how we should respond :)
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