What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5841  Postby Animavore » Apr 20, 2019 6:15 pm

Spearthrower wrote:Shaking one's keys at a polar bear will scare it away, because God gave man dominion over animals and installed fear of humans in them.



I'd really love to see Byers try that.
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5842  Postby Spearthrower » Apr 20, 2019 6:24 pm

The bear might even be so bewildered at the sight of such an obvious lunatic that it decides anything that bat-shit must taste awful and leave it be.
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5843  Postby Cito di Pense » Apr 20, 2019 7:02 pm

Pridefel Knowitelz wrote:
Do you think it's unreasonable for me to ask you for a couple of examples, seeing as this exchange is between you and I?


You're not quite literate enough to be asking for examples. Maybe you should spend more time learning stuff that will help you interact in ways that don't add up to asking questions you think you already know the answer to as if you didn't.
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5844  Postby Hermit » Apr 21, 2019 6:17 am

Pridefel Knowitelz wrote:I've never heard a believer say anything that strikes me as crazy.

Since God doesn’t issue commands to Himself, He has no moral duties to fulfill. He is certainly not subject to the same moral obligations and prohibitions that we are. For example, I have no right to take an innocent life. For me to do so would be murder. But God has no such prohibition. He can give and take life as He chooses.

The author concluded that there was nothing morally objectionable about the massacre of the Canaanites because God commanded the massacre.
So the problem isn’t that God ended the Canaanites’ lives. The problem is that He commanded the Israeli soldiers to end them. Isn’t that like commanding someone to commit murder? No, it’s not. Rather, since our moral duties are determined by God’s commands, it is commanding someone to do something which, in the absence of a divine command, would have been murder. The act was morally obligatory for the Israeli soldiers in virtue of God’s command, even though, had they undertaken it on their on initiative, it would have been wrong.
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5845  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Apr 21, 2019 7:24 am

Pridefel Knowitelz wrote:
Spearthrower wrote:
Pridefel Knowitelz wrote:I've never heard a believer say anything that strikes me as crazy.

Shaking one's keys at a polar bear will scare it away, because God gave man dominion over animals and installed fear of humans in them.

That's certifiably crazy as believing it while in the vicinity of a hungry polar bear will lead to death.


It certainly is. Hey check it out, an atheist once said to me in all seriousness that the reason why she doesn't believe in God is because if there was an creator of the universe - which we agreed would be uncreated if it did exist - then who created that creator?

Another atheist told me that the big bang is the origin of the universe. When I asked him what caused the big bang he said another big bang from another universe. I would have kept asking him what created that one, and so on, and so on, but then I remembered that man only lives for approximately three score and ten years, or so they say.

There's a thread for batty things atheists have said. This one is about crazy things theists have said.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5846  Postby Hermit » Apr 21, 2019 7:47 am

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Pridefel Knowitelz wrote:
Spearthrower wrote:
Pridefel Knowitelz wrote:I've never heard a believer say anything that strikes me as crazy.

Shaking one's keys at a polar bear will scare it away, because God gave man dominion over animals and installed fear of humans in them.

That's certifiably crazy as believing it while in the vicinity of a hungry polar bear will lead to death.

It certainly is. Hey check it out, an atheist once said to me in all seriousness that the reason why she doesn't believe in God is because if there was an creator of the universe - which we agreed would be uncreated if it did exist - then who created that creator?

Another atheist told me that the big bang is the origin of the universe. When I asked him what caused the big bang he said another big bang from another universe. I would have kept asking him what created that one, and so on, and so on, but then I remembered that man only lives for approximately three score and ten years, or so they say.

There's a thread for batty things atheists have said. This one is about crazy things theists have said.

Let him be. Most debaters resort to whataboutism after they've realised that none of their arguments work as a defence of their views. Pridefel Knowitelz is just taking a shortcut to it.
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5847  Postby The_Metatron » Apr 21, 2019 2:27 pm

Spearthrower wrote:
Pridefel Knowitelz wrote:I've never heard a believer say anything that strikes me as crazy.

Well then: enjoy reading this thread.

I'll give you a bonus example.

Shaking one's keys at a polar bear will scare it away, because God gave man dominion over animals and installed fear of humans in them.

That's certifiably crazy as believing it while in the vicinity of a hungry polar bear will lead to death.

No, man, you have it all wrong!

This is EXACTLY what Christians should do to test their faith. Walk north, find a polar bear, and go tell it what’s what with their keys.

Polar bears need a source of soft, warm meat. The world needs fewer religious assholes. It’s a win all around.
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5848  Postby Blip » Apr 21, 2019 4:03 pm


!
GENERAL MODNOTE
I've split the discussion on relationships between theism, atheism and the scientific method to its own thread here.
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5849  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Apr 25, 2019 6:19 am

Theists do so love to shift the burden of proof.
In a discussion about whether JC resurrected or not:
If God exists it is perfectly possible, as well as plausible. There are very good reasons for belief in God and the resurrection. But let me ask you because not a single atheist has been able to give an answer yet. What reasons do you have for believing Atheism is true? Why do you believe the universe is the way it is? How do you account for objective morality, freewill, the fine-tuning of the universe, consciousness, and reason?
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5850  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Apr 25, 2019 6:30 am

Argument via assertionist philosophy:
The dichotomy you propose only exists if the Christian espouses what is known as volunteerism and this view runs contrary to just about every major historical Christian teaching I am aware of.
In volunteerism, one would think that morality is arbitrarily determined by God. He just happens to like some things and dislike other things. That would be subjective, yes.
However, Christians have long held a very different view which to me seems clearly expressed in the Bible and makes more sense philosophically as well if we think of God as being a “maximally great being.”
This view is called essentialism - which affirms that God’s commands are rooted in His very nature or essence. That is to say that what he commands as being good or bad is not arbitrary but tied to his very nature - an essential property if you will.
If God lacked these properties he would not be God in the same way that a molecule is not water if it lacks a hydrogen atom. It’s necessary that a water molecule includes a hydrogen atom - and it’s necessary that a maximally great being (aka, God) would have essential properties such as justice, truthfulness, compassion, etc.
In the essentialists view, there is no dichotomy. Rather, divine commands are not subjective or arbitrarily determined by God, they are simply expressions or descriptions of his essential properties. What conforms to the properties being good and what opposes those properties being evil.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5851  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Apr 25, 2019 6:37 am

No dichotomy exists.
It's easy to understand if:
1. you first look at the definition of objective:
"Not influenced by personal feelings and/or opinions"
2. You read in the bible where you learn the objective standard for what is just and right is not at all grounded in God's personal feelings and/or opinions but rather in his nature.
Therefore, the Christian standard for what is just and right is objective.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5852  Postby Fenrir » Apr 25, 2019 7:20 am

Thomas Eshuis wrote:Argument via assertionist philosophy:
The dichotomy you propose only exists if the Christian espouses what is known as volunteerism and this view runs contrary to just about every major historical Christian teaching I am aware of.
In volunteerism, one would think that morality is arbitrarily determined by God. He just happens to like some things and dislike other things. That would be subjective, yes.
However, Christians have long held a very different view which to me seems clearly expressed in the Bible and makes more sense philosophically as well if we think of God as being a “maximally great being.”
This view is called essentialism - which affirms that God’s commands are rooted in His very nature or essence. That is to say that what he commands as being good or bad is not arbitrary but tied to his very nature - an essential property if you will.
If God lacked these properties he would not be God in the same way that a molecule is not water if it lacks a hydrogen atom. It’s necessary that a water molecule includes a hydrogen atom - and it’s necessary that a maximally great being (aka, God) would have essential properties such as justice, truthfulness, compassion, etc.
In the essentialists view, there is no dichotomy. Rather, divine commands are not subjective or arbitrarily determined by God, they are simply expressions or descriptions of his essential properties. What conforms to the properties being good and what opposes those properties being evil.


Yeah well, they forgot the third prong of that "dichotomy", justificationalism, whereby you make up any old thing that sounds good to you and that you can pretend explains whatever it is you already believe.
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5853  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Apr 25, 2019 7:50 am

Most Christians, when it comes to objective morality, seem to conflate the definition 'opinion-based' with 'not dependent on a mind or entity'.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5854  Postby aufbahrung » Apr 25, 2019 8:01 am

'There is no such thing has death'. That's a pretty common awesome statement. Twice so when conflated with talk about nuclear war.
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5855  Postby Aca » Apr 26, 2019 12:17 pm

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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5856  Postby Svartalf » Apr 26, 2019 12:25 pm

Begging pardon, but the moron in previous post had me at first sentence, is the wall of text below it actually worth reading?
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5857  Postby Greyman » Apr 26, 2019 12:34 pm

Svartalf wrote:Begging pardon, but the moron in previous post had me at first sentence, is the wall of text below it actually worth reading?
No. Not really. It is about what you expect.
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5858  Postby Svartalf » Apr 26, 2019 12:37 pm

thanks.... must admit that this entry is rather well placed for battiest nonsense.
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5859  Postby Zwaarddijk » Apr 27, 2019 11:19 am

Thomas Eshuis wrote:Argument via assertionist philosophy:
The dichotomy you propose only exists if the Christian espouses what is known as volunteerism and this view runs contrary to just about every major historical Christian teaching I am aware of.
In volunteerism, one would think that morality is arbitrarily determined by God. He just happens to like some things and dislike other things. That would be subjective, yes.
However, Christians have long held a very different view which to me seems clearly expressed in the Bible and makes more sense philosophically as well if we think of God as being a “maximally great being.”
This view is called essentialism - which affirms that God’s commands are rooted in His very nature or essence. That is to say that what he commands as being good or bad is not arbitrary but tied to his very nature - an essential property if you will.
If God lacked these properties he would not be God in the same way that a molecule is not water if it lacks a hydrogen atom. It’s necessary that a water molecule includes a hydrogen atom - and it’s necessary that a maximally great being (aka, God) would have essential properties such as justice, truthfulness, compassion, etc.
In the essentialists view, there is no dichotomy. Rather, divine commands are not subjective or arbitrarily determined by God, they are simply expressions or descriptions of his essential properties. What conforms to the properties being good and what opposes those properties being evil.

I would rather think the fallacy there isn't assertionism (altho' that fallacy does take part in it), but rather one of 'restating the same thing in a wordier fashion and claiming it's not the same thing because there's more words now'
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Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5860  Postby zulumoose » Apr 29, 2019 7:05 am

"Just one example: billions of celestial bodies in perfect movement, why don't they crash into each other if there is no Creator to guide them?"


The result of "perfect" movement guided by an infallible Creator.

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