What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

Christianity, Islam, Other Religions & Belief Systems.

Moderators: Blip, DarthHelmet86

Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5941  Postby Svartalf » Oct 05, 2019 10:33 am

well, Yule trees are a pagan custom.
PC stands for Patronizing Cocksucker Randy Ping

Embrace the Dark Side, it needs a hug
User avatar
Svartalf
 
Posts: 1056
Age: 49
Male

Country: France
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5942  Postby Spearthrower » Oct 05, 2019 11:00 am

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Everybody proudly proclaims they're not Christians yet they all put trees in their living rooms in December!


:lol:
I'm not an atheist; I just don't believe in gods :- that which I don't belong to isn't a group!
Religion: Mass Stockholm Syndrome

Learn Stuff. Stuff good. https://www.coursera.org/
User avatar
Spearthrower
 
Posts: 24363
Age: 43
Male

Country: Thailand
Print view this post

Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5943  Postby fluttermoth » Oct 05, 2019 12:21 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
Everybody proudly proclaims they're not Christians yet they all put trees in their living rooms in December!


:rofl:
User avatar
fluttermoth
 
Posts: 198
Female

United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5944  Postby Arcanyn » Oct 06, 2019 5:37 am

So many people claim to not believe in Thor yet they still own hammers.
Power doesn't corrupt, it reveals. Only when someone is free from constraints and consequences do they show their true character.

Sign the petition for the William Lane Craig/David Icke debate here:
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/craigickedebate/signatures
User avatar
Arcanyn
 
Posts: 1453
Age: 34
Male

Australia (au)
Print view this post

Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5945  Postby aban57 » Oct 06, 2019 11:30 pm

Evangelical activist Mary Colbert believes climate change is caused by sin and humans should repent to counteract it.


https://mavenroundtable.io/theintellect ... cstvTApVpk
User avatar
aban57
 
Posts: 6703
Age: 40
Female

Country: France
Belgium (be)
Print view this post

Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5946  Postby Svartalf » Oct 06, 2019 11:44 pm

morons will be morons, and never accuse an evangelical of rationality.
PC stands for Patronizing Cocksucker Randy Ping

Embrace the Dark Side, it needs a hug
User avatar
Svartalf
 
Posts: 1056
Age: 49
Male

Country: France
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5947  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Oct 09, 2019 8:41 pm

When I asked someone to defend their claim that the Nazis were left-wing extremists:
First of all it's up to those that claim the Nazis were left wing to provide evidence

Actually it's is you people who claim they are right wing. So burden of proof is on you. You made that claim originally without providing any evidence.

You just proved that you don't even know their domestic policies. All you know about them is the genocide. 1.

Fascism, the idea that there should be one strong leader is antithetical to left wing politics which is more about the community.

Actually false. Facism isn't about strong leader. It's like saying that Communists are right wing because Stalin was considered as "one strong leader". 2.
You don't even know the history of fascism and it's word?
Fascism originated from millitary symbol of bundle of sticks. It symbolizes how one stick can easy to break but bundle of them is hard. 3.
It's literally about collectivism. That group of people should unite together and sacrifice the individual in name of the "common good". Sounds familiar? 4.
In facism it showed as unite as a country. While in socialism and communism it's about uniting as working class.
The logic and reasoning behind their political ideologies is the same. 5.

Fascism is literally left wing. All of it's supporters and creators had history of being part of left wing.6.


Notes:

1.I was asked to name one Nazi policy that was not left-wing, that was not genocide, I chose instead to explain that fascism is inherently antithetical to left-wing politics, never mentioning genocide or calling my rebuttal a domestic policy.
2.I never mentioned right-wing in my original post, nor did I claim that the Nazis were right-wing because the were fascist. I simply stated they aren't left-wing because fascism doesn't gel with left-wing politics.
3. This is a modern guess at how the Etruscans developed the symbol, which is wholly irrelevant as Mussolini chose it due its symbolism in the Roman Empire as the sign of a powerful magistrate.
4. Fascism isn't socialism, it's about everyone sacrificing their work and life for the state and it's leader.
5. As per point 4 above, fascism is not based on the same reasoning, more-over socialism and communism aren't based on the same identical reasoning either.
6. And both Hitler and Mussolini then denounced socialism and communism and immediately banned left-wing parties and labour organisations when they got into power.....
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
User avatar
Thomas Eshuis
 
Name: Thomas Eshuis
Posts: 30067
Age: 30
Male

Country: Netherlands
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5948  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Oct 10, 2019 7:23 am

Because it's the current left wings pushing authoritarianism. Socialism is authoritarian. True socialism is communism. Communism calls for death.
Extinction Rebellion wants socialism to combat climate change. Would they like more?
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
User avatar
Thomas Eshuis
 
Name: Thomas Eshuis
Posts: 30067
Age: 30
Male

Country: Netherlands
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5949  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Oct 10, 2019 7:35 am

And then there's this:
Image
:picard:
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
User avatar
Thomas Eshuis
 
Name: Thomas Eshuis
Posts: 30067
Age: 30
Male

Country: Netherlands
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5950  Postby Svartalf » Oct 10, 2019 8:26 am

Actually, that S rune means "sieg" (victory)
PC stands for Patronizing Cocksucker Randy Ping

Embrace the Dark Side, it needs a hug
User avatar
Svartalf
 
Posts: 1056
Age: 49
Male

Country: France
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5951  Postby Thommo » Oct 10, 2019 8:57 am

I have to admit that one made me smile. Nazism is left wing. :tehe:

They weren't all that big on diversity (especially racial), Marxism, taxes or trade unions from what I remember.
User avatar
Thommo
 
Posts: 26127

Print view this post

Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5952  Postby Svartalf » Oct 10, 2019 9:47 am

well, Nazism was interesting in that it was deeply right wing (repressive and pro capitalist), but used lefty methods (National SOCIALIST Workers Party of Germany) to win popular support.
PC stands for Patronizing Cocksucker Randy Ping

Embrace the Dark Side, it needs a hug
User avatar
Svartalf
 
Posts: 1056
Age: 49
Male

Country: France
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5953  Postby laklak » Oct 10, 2019 9:51 am

Say what you will about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. - Mark Twain
The sky is falling! The sky is falling! - Chicken Little
I never go without my dinner. No one ever does, except vegetarians and people like that - Oscar Wilde
User avatar
laklak
RS Donator
 
Name: Florida Man
Posts: 19641
Age: 65
Male

Country: The Great Satan
Swaziland (sz)
Print view this post

Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5954  Postby Thommo » Oct 10, 2019 10:12 am

Svartalf wrote:well, Nazism was interesting in that it was deeply right wing (repressive and pro capitalist), but used lefty methods (National SOCIALIST Workers Party of Germany) to win popular support.


They used the words, not the ideas, let alone the methods. I think about the only arguably genuine bit of left wing policy they implemented was a programme of national infrastructure works which got a lot of the men back into employment in the 30s (though this was inherited from the preceding conservative government anyway, I believe). It's like thinking the Democratic People's Republic of Korea must be democratic just because it has "democratic" in the name.

Sometimes people just lie. Turns out Hitler and Goebbels were among those people.

I don't think the Nazis were particularly pro capitalism either mind you, there's certainly an interesting point of history to discuss. I read various articles earlier, such as:

https://fullfact.org/online/nazis-socialists/
The issue of whether the Nazis were socialists isn’t a straightforward one, due to how the Nazi party developed and grew its base of support. But the consensus among historians is that the Nazis, and Hitler in particular, were not socialists in any meaningful sense.

Historians have regularly disavowed claims that Hitler adhered to socialist ideology. Historian Richard Evans wrote of the Nazis’ incorporation of socialist into their name in 1920, “Despite the change of name, however, it would be wrong to see Nazism as a form of, or an outgrowth from, socialism….Nazism was in some ways an extreme counter-ideology to socialism”. Or as simply put by historian and Hitler expert Ian Kershaw, “Hitler was never a socialist.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism#Ideology
National Socialist politics was based on competition and struggle as its organizing principle, and the Nazis believed that "human life consisted of eternal struggle and competition and derived its meaning from struggle and competition."[168] The Nazis saw this eternal struggle in military terms, and advocated a society organized like an army in order to achieve success. They promoted the idea of a national-racial "people's community" (Volksgemeinschaft) in order to accomplish "the efficient prosecution of the struggle against other peoples and states."[169] Like an army, the Volksgemeinschaft was meant to consist of a hierarchy of ranks or classes of people, some commanding and others obeying, all working together for a common goal.[169] This concept was rooted in the writings of 19th century völkisch authors who glorified medieval German society, viewing it as a "community rooted in the land and bound together by custom and tradition," in which there was neither class conflict nor selfish individualism.[170]

Nazism rejected the Marxist concept of class conflict, and it praised both German capitalists and German workers as essential to the Volksgemeinschaft. In the Volksgemeinschaft, social classes would continue to exist, but there would be no class conflict between them.[171] Hitler said that "the capitalists have worked their way to the top through their capacity, and as the basis of this selection, which again only proves their higher race, they have a right to lead."[172] German business leaders co-operated with the Nazis during their rise to power and received substantial benefits from the Nazi state after it was established, including high profits and state-sanctioned monopolies and cartels.[173] Large celebrations and symbolism were used extensively to encourage those engaged in physical labour on behalf of Germany, with leading National Socialists often praising the "honour of labour", which fostered a sense of community (Gemeinschaft) for the German people and promoted solidarity towards the Nazi cause.[174] To win workers away from Marxism, Nazi propaganda sometimes presented its expansionist foreign policy goals as a "class struggle between nations."[172] Bonfires were made of school children's differently coloured caps as symbolic of the unity of different social classes.[175]

https://www.snopes.com/news/2017/09/05/ ... ocialists/

If you look at actual 20th and 21st century left wing core concepts: Trade unionism, minimum wages, employees rights, the welfare state, diversity, progressivism, liberalism, tolerance, human rights they are each and every one absent from Nazism.

Of course many core (centre-) right wing concepts are also absent (and there is some overlap with core left wing ideas when it comes to tolerance and liberalism for example). But that's because it was a totalitarian ideology based on racism, militarism and nationalism.
User avatar
Thommo
 
Posts: 26127

Print view this post

Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5955  Postby Spearthrower » Oct 10, 2019 4:51 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:And then there's this:
Image
:picard:



Them ancient proto-Indo-Europeans and their damn socialism!
I'm not an atheist; I just don't believe in gods :- that which I don't belong to isn't a group!
Religion: Mass Stockholm Syndrome

Learn Stuff. Stuff good. https://www.coursera.org/
User avatar
Spearthrower
 
Posts: 24363
Age: 43
Male

Country: Thailand
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5956  Postby Spearthrower » Oct 10, 2019 4:53 pm

Svartalf wrote:well, Nazism was interesting in that it was deeply right wing (repressive and pro capitalist), but used lefty methods (National SOCIALIST Workers Party of Germany) to win popular support.


That's much like saying that North Korea is a democracy because it has that word in their official name.
I'm not an atheist; I just don't believe in gods :- that which I don't belong to isn't a group!
Religion: Mass Stockholm Syndrome

Learn Stuff. Stuff good. https://www.coursera.org/
User avatar
Spearthrower
 
Posts: 24363
Age: 43
Male

Country: Thailand
Print view this post

Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5957  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Oct 10, 2019 4:57 pm

Svartalf wrote:Actually, that S rune means "sieg" (victory)

Depends, the double SS stood for Saal-Schutz, ie Hall Security, as the SS started as a security force for the fledgling NSDAP when they were still hosting political events to gain support.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
User avatar
Thomas Eshuis
 
Name: Thomas Eshuis
Posts: 30067
Age: 30
Male

Country: Netherlands
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5958  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Oct 10, 2019 4:58 pm

Svartalf wrote:well, Nazism was interesting in that it was deeply right wing (repressive and pro capitalist), but used lefty methods (National SOCIALIST Workers Party of Germany) to win popular support.

It's called Populism which is neither specifically left or right, but uses whatever is popular at any given time to get support and therefore power.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
User avatar
Thomas Eshuis
 
Name: Thomas Eshuis
Posts: 30067
Age: 30
Male

Country: Netherlands
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5959  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Oct 10, 2019 5:01 pm

Thommo wrote:
Svartalf wrote:well, Nazism was interesting in that it was deeply right wing (repressive and pro capitalist), but used lefty methods (National SOCIALIST Workers Party of Germany) to win popular support.


They used the words, not the ideas, let alone the methods. I think about the only arguably genuine bit of left wing policy they implemented was a programme of national infrastructure works which got a lot of the men back into employment in the 30s (though this was inherited from the preceding conservative government anyway, I believe).

Not only that, but it was very quickly abandoned in 1941-42 due to the escalating war, while the populace was fooled by yearly press photos of supposed road construction.
Most of the pre-war unemployment was reduced by the growing military industry.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
User avatar
Thomas Eshuis
 
Name: Thomas Eshuis
Posts: 30067
Age: 30
Male

Country: Netherlands
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5960  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Oct 10, 2019 5:02 pm

Thommo wrote:
I don't think the Nazis were particularly pro capitalism either mind you

They were to the extent that it served the state and later on, the war effort. In contrast to socialism which was banned virtually the moment the Third Reich began.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
User avatar
Thomas Eshuis
 
Name: Thomas Eshuis
Posts: 30067
Age: 30
Male

Country: Netherlands
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

PreviousNext

Return to Theism

Who is online

Users viewing this topic: No registered users and 3 guests