What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

Christianity, Islam, Other Religions & Belief Systems.

Moderators: Blip, DarthHelmet86

Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5801  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Feb 21, 2019 7:37 am

zulumoose wrote:
History should be about the future!


Well, yes.
Funny the way they put it, but essentially history should focus on three things as I see it.
The writer probably meant history should focus on point 3.

1) The specific background of the nation concerned. How it was formed etc.
2) World history, rise and fall of empires and types of government, general background.
3) History as it is relevant to current and likely future political developments, history that is informative in terms of how people think and what influences them. History as a warning.

Remember, people that mishear history are doomed to reheat it.

Sure, ,but because he poster it without clarification it looked like a silly contradiction in term.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
User avatar
Thomas Eshuis
 
Name: Thomas Eshuis
Posts: 29795
Age: 29
Male

Country: Netherlands
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5802  Postby Arcanyn » Feb 22, 2019 6:58 am

Ironclad wrote:BBC News - 'Religion cannot stop LGBT education', says Ofsted boss
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bi ... m-47282724

I love the poster tied the the school gate, "stop confusing our children". :waah:

"One mother, who wished to remain anonymous, accused the school of "planting ideas" in children's heads".. uhh riight


Nice bit of projection there. She can't stand the idea of her child having any ideas that she didn't plant there.
Power doesn't corrupt, it reveals. Only when someone is free from constraints and consequences do they show their true character.

Sign the petition for the William Lane Craig/David Icke debate here:
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/craigickedebate/signatures
User avatar
Arcanyn
 
Posts: 1438
Age: 34
Male

Australia (au)
Print view this post

Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5803  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Feb 23, 2019 9:09 pm

On the topic of a good, interventionist god:

It's called FREE WILL and depending on how you exercise this privilege, determines good or bad consequences. Each individual is SOLELY responsible for his or her consequences. Why & at what point would God even need to intervene?


You have made numerous claims here ...the truth is,as I have repeatedly pointed out ..you have no logical basis to.


As you don't know everything ..so you can't assert anything as accurate..as what you don't know could
render it false.


It's that simple.


It's incredulous how some theist apologists that appeal to solipsism to attack atheism, don't realize it refutes their position just as much.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
User avatar
Thomas Eshuis
 
Name: Thomas Eshuis
Posts: 29795
Age: 29
Male

Country: Netherlands
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5804  Postby Greyman » Feb 24, 2019 1:44 am

Thomas Eshuis wrote:On the topic of a good, interventionist god:
It's called FREE WILL and depending on how you exercise this privilege, determines good or bad consequences. Each individual is SOLELY responsible for his or her consequences. Why & at what point would God even need to intervene?

Ah, yes. Let us ignore the Old Testaments. God does not need to intervene now.
"And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit." - T. Tick.
User avatar
Greyman
 
Name: Graham
Posts: 491
Age: 51

Country: Australia
Australia (au)
Print view this post

Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5805  Postby Hermit » Mar 01, 2019 5:41 am

zulumoose wrote:
History should be about the future!


Well, yes.
Funny the way they put it, but essentially history should focus on three things as I see it.
The writer probably meant history should focus on point 3.

1) The specific background of the nation concerned. How it was formed etc.
2) World history, rise and fall of empires and types of government, general background.
3) History as it is relevant to current and likely future political developments, history that is informative in terms of how people think and what influences them. History as a warning.

Remember, people that mishear history are doomed to reheat it.

Whose history?

Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past. - Eric A. Blair

and

It is always a part of the misfortunes of the vanquished that their portraits are painted and their history written by the victors. - A. Yankee
God is the mysterious veil under which we hide our ignorance of the cause. - Léo Errera


God created the universe
God just exists
User avatar
Hermit
 
Posts: 2031
Age: 65
Male

Country: Australia
Print view this post

Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5806  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Mar 01, 2019 8:31 am

Greyman wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:On the topic of a good, interventionist god:
It's called FREE WILL and depending on how you exercise this privilege, determines good or bad consequences. Each individual is SOLELY responsible for his or her consequences. Why & at what point would God even need to intervene?

Ah, yes. Let us ignore the Old Testaments. God does not need to intervene now.


What disturbs me the most is if you apply this to victims of child abuse or people who are born with all manner of illnesses and disabilities.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
User avatar
Thomas Eshuis
 
Name: Thomas Eshuis
Posts: 29795
Age: 29
Male

Country: Netherlands
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5807  Postby Arcanyn » Mar 01, 2019 8:36 am

Thomas Eshuis wrote:On the topic of a good, interventionist god:

It's called FREE WILL and depending on how you exercise this privilege, determines good or bad consequences. Each individual is SOLELY responsible for his or her consequences. Why & at what point would God even need to intervene?




Here's the thing with this. Let's say you have someone being attacked by a rapist. Mr Yahweh chooses not to intervene because he respects the free will of the rapist. But what about the victim - the victim isn't choosing to be raped - they're having their free will taken away by the rapist. So basically, what this entails, is that faced with a choice between protecting the free will of an aggressor and protecting the free will of their victim, Mr Yahweh will always prioritise the free will of the aggressor.
Power doesn't corrupt, it reveals. Only when someone is free from constraints and consequences do they show their true character.

Sign the petition for the William Lane Craig/David Icke debate here:
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/craigickedebate/signatures
User avatar
Arcanyn
 
Posts: 1438
Age: 34
Male

Australia (au)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5808  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Mar 02, 2019 12:11 am

Arcanyn wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:On the topic of a good, interventionist god:

It's called FREE WILL and depending on how you exercise this privilege, determines good or bad consequences. Each individual is SOLELY responsible for his or her consequences. Why & at what point would God even need to intervene?




Here's the thing with this. Let's say you have someone being attacked by a rapist. Mr Yahweh chooses not to intervene because he respects the free will of the rapist. But what about the victim - the victim isn't choosing to be raped - they're having their free will taken away by the rapist. So basically, what this entails, is that faced with a choice between protecting the free will of an aggressor and protecting the free will of their victim, Mr Yahweh will always prioritise the free will of the aggressor.

Or to put it another way, to paraphrase Tracie Harries; "The difference between me an your god, is that I would try to stop the rape/assault/etc."
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
User avatar
Thomas Eshuis
 
Name: Thomas Eshuis
Posts: 29795
Age: 29
Male

Country: Netherlands
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5809  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Mar 02, 2019 9:57 am

You are until you have a basis for the justification you aren't...period.


So unable to question my justification.


A perfect all powerful Creator assured and informed me of the perfection the process. and results.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
User avatar
Thomas Eshuis
 
Name: Thomas Eshuis
Posts: 29795
Age: 29
Male

Country: Netherlands
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5810  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Mar 02, 2019 10:20 am

Given the question is one of knowing if your senses and reasoning are accurate.
It's essential to know if your senses and reasoning are.


So you state nothing can ever be known with certainty ..no that's a claim..I've already stated I do know some things for certain and told you why.


But please tell me how you calculate the percentage of probability your senses are accurate ..so any statement you make valid.


No you can't borrow from my world view..as you would have to know your senses and reasoning were accurate ...to accept,assess,conclude and communicate...get your own...ha


I don't have to defend it ...I'm stating it's self evident.
And until you have a basis to state you know your senses reasoning..oh and the laws of logic and uniformity in nature are valid...you are in no position to.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
User avatar
Thomas Eshuis
 
Name: Thomas Eshuis
Posts: 29795
Age: 29
Male

Country: Netherlands
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5811  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Mar 02, 2019 7:49 pm

Same person:
Iv'e already clarified this before your response...I've slightly amended the statement


The all powerful all knowing Creator informs me of the validity of my senses and reason being authentic and his consistently ordered Creation and sustaining of uniformity in nature,laws of logic and senses and reasoning via a perfect supernatural mechanism outwith my physical senses....so no possibility I could be inaccurate in this transmitted knowledge


Therefore you are in no position to question this statement as you have no basis to state your senses and reasoning are valid..to any percentage..as of course you would be assessing their validity by using them..(.if they truly existed at all)


Game over buddy boy..no more excuses.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
User avatar
Thomas Eshuis
 
Name: Thomas Eshuis
Posts: 29795
Age: 29
Male

Country: Netherlands
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5812  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Mar 02, 2019 8:56 pm

And you are simply repeating the absurdity of citing the concept of truth..so evidence...while not having the basis to validly cite either concept with any justification


While liberally stating nothing can be known with any conclusive accuracy




So are unable to challenge any statement
You don't seem to realize you are caught in an infinite regression of attempting to validate(in order to make any truth,knowledge or any other conceptual claim)your senses and reasoning...with your senses and reasoning.


I hope you get it one day.

The bolded bit made it clear to me that the person in question lacks honesty, as I did not make that claim, but rather pointed out that it is one of the two prongs of his false dichotomy. IE, either we know things with a 100% certainty or we cannot know anything at all.
I already explained this to them and yet they just attributed it to me for the third time.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
User avatar
Thomas Eshuis
 
Name: Thomas Eshuis
Posts: 29795
Age: 29
Male

Country: Netherlands
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5813  Postby Arcanyn » Mar 03, 2019 6:46 am

Thomas Eshuis wrote:Same person:
Iv'e already clarified this before your response...I've slightly amended the statement


The all powerful all knowing Creator informs me of the validity of my senses and reason being authentic and his consistently ordered Creation and sustaining of uniformity in nature,laws of logic and senses and reasoning via a perfect supernatural mechanism outwith my physical senses....so no possibility I could be inaccurate in this transmitted knowledge


Therefore you are in no position to question this statement as you have no basis to state your senses and reasoning are valid..to any percentage..as of course you would be assessing their validity by using them..(.if they truly existed at all)


Game over buddy boy..no more excuses.


Wow, so he's right because he's been supernaturally rendered infallible. Quite an ego there. Of course, no one firmly convinced of their own infallibility has ever been wrong about that . . .
Power doesn't corrupt, it reveals. Only when someone is free from constraints and consequences do they show their true character.

Sign the petition for the William Lane Craig/David Icke debate here:
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/craigickedebate/signatures
User avatar
Arcanyn
 
Posts: 1438
Age: 34
Male

Australia (au)
Print view this post

Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5814  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Mar 04, 2019 7:17 am

You are demonstrating his existence by your appeal to evidence ..as evidence assumes truth and truth assumes God So you can offer no justification to presuppose a consistently ordered universe,uniformity in nature ,laws of logic or the validity of your senses and reasoning to make any authentic truth or knowledge claim then -Noted
So blind unjustified religious belief then.
P.s I hope if you are a U.S citizen you won't be expressing your atheistic religious belief in any govt post or property. Until of course you object to the restrictions placed on Christians...as that would make you a hypocrite wouldn't it.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
User avatar
Thomas Eshuis
 
Name: Thomas Eshuis
Posts: 29795
Age: 29
Male

Country: Netherlands
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5815  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Mar 04, 2019 10:01 am

I don't have to prove it ,only declare the statement I receive divine inspiration that justifies my senses and reasoning ,laws of logic,uniformity in nature.


Your appeal to evidence is proof of God.


For the third or is it fourth time..which means do you you use to to assess your senses and reasoning to any degree...your senses and reasoning?


One interpretation of the term 'religion' .focuses on 'liger' ..or ligature ..to be bound to some creed or ideology or action


So not necessarily being bound to a divine entity.


And as you have no basis to justify presupposing a consistently ordered universe,uniformity in nature ,laws of logic or senses and reasoning...by definition its a belief based in blind faith.


So we have a position of blind faith you declare yourself bound to .. minus(you claim) a supreme Creator


And given the constitution does not specify what a religious belief consists of ..


Why can't we define those who declare themselves (however logically absurdly) 'atheists'?so 'atheism' a religious belief?
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
User avatar
Thomas Eshuis
 
Name: Thomas Eshuis
Posts: 29795
Age: 29
Male

Country: Netherlands
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5816  Postby Calilasseia » Mar 04, 2019 10:46 pm

Wow. Some weapons-grade apologetic bollocks being presented there by whomever you had the misfortune to encounter ...
Signature temporarily on hold until I can find a reliable image host ...
User avatar
Calilasseia
RS Donator
 
Posts: 21979
Age: 57
Male

Country: England
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5817  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Mar 05, 2019 7:58 am

Calilasseia wrote:Wow. Some weapons-grade apologetic bollocks being presented there by whomever you had the misfortune to encounter ...

It's basically Sye Ten Brugencate's argument from solipsism.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
User avatar
Thomas Eshuis
 
Name: Thomas Eshuis
Posts: 29795
Age: 29
Male

Country: Netherlands
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5818  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Apr 18, 2019 1:58 pm

I mean, the Gospels of Matthew and John were written by eyewitnesses. So There's that. Acts was written by a doctor, who would have been an eyewitness to some things and then would've done research on things he wasn't sure of. And then Paul, not a eyewitness to these accounts, would need to have one heck of an experience to go from murdering Christians, to writing letters establishing Doctrine for Churches around the Mediterranean in a hostile Roman-ruled area, and being willing to be scourged, imprisoned, brutalized, and killed for his belief.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
User avatar
Thomas Eshuis
 
Name: Thomas Eshuis
Posts: 29795
Age: 29
Male

Country: Netherlands
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5819  Postby Svartalf » Apr 18, 2019 8:54 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
I mean, the Gospels of Matthew and John were written by eyewitnesses. So There's that. Acts was written by a doctor, who would have been an eyewitness to some things and then would've done research on things he wasn't sure of. And then Paul, not a eyewitness to these accounts, would need to have one heck of an experience to go from murdering Christians, to writing letters establishing Doctrine for Churches around the Mediterranean in a hostile Roman-ruled area, and being willing to be scourged, imprisoned, brutalized, and killed for his belief.

First order shenanigans, Matthew the evangelist is generally agreed NOT to be the apostle of the same name,, and despite claims to that effect, there's no chance that John of Patmos ever to have been the Disciple whom Jeseus Loved. Plus, it's demonstrated that Matthew derived some of his stuff either from Mark, or from Mark's own source, which would not be the case if the author had been a first hand witness..
PC stands for Patronizing Cocksucker Randy Ping

Embrace the Dark Side, it needs a hug
User avatar
Svartalf
 
Posts: 649
Age: 49
Male

Country: France
Canada (ca)
Print view this post

Re: What's the battiest thing you ever heard a believer say?

#5820  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Apr 18, 2019 11:09 pm

Svartalf wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
I mean, the Gospels of Matthew and John were written by eyewitnesses. So There's that. Acts was written by a doctor, who would have been an eyewitness to some things and then would've done research on things he wasn't sure of. And then Paul, not a eyewitness to these accounts, would need to have one heck of an experience to go from murdering Christians, to writing letters establishing Doctrine for Churches around the Mediterranean in a hostile Roman-ruled area, and being willing to be scourged, imprisoned, brutalized, and killed for his belief.

First order shenanigans, Matthew the evangelist is generally agreed NOT to be the apostle of the same name,, and despite claims to that effect, there's no chance that John of Patmos ever to have been the Disciple whom Jeseus Loved. Plus, it's demonstrated that Matthew derived some of his stuff either from Mark, or from Mark's own source, which would not be the case if the author had been a first hand witness..

All the gospels are anonymous and written decades if not more than a century after the supposed death of Jesus.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
User avatar
Thomas Eshuis
 
Name: Thomas Eshuis
Posts: 29795
Age: 29
Male

Country: Netherlands
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

PreviousNext

Return to Theism

Who is online

Users viewing this topic: No registered users and 7 guests