Why All Muslims Benefit from Terrorism

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Re: Why All Muslims Benefit from Terrorism

#81  Postby Cito di Pense » Jun 18, 2017 6:42 am

Oeditor wrote:
Rumraket wrote:
quas wrote:
Rachel Bronwyn wrote:Uh, how would leaving Islam prevent terrorists killing them? That would make them a target for additional reasons.


Which is why terrorism benefits the religion, and thus its adherents.

No. No. It might be true to say that terrorism benefits ISLAM, as in the persistence of the religion against adversary, apostasy and deconversion, but this is very very much different from saying it benefits muslims (the human beings who believe in the religion) in general.
Indeed. So it's all semantics after all. That's saved me wading through the rest of the thread.


No, it's impossible for everyone to benefit from a broadening of the base, because that broadening always pulls in as many idiots as geniuses. Think about the bell curve. What you discover is that it mainly benefits the idiots. That's what David Wood is on about, only he's too much of a chickenshit or owes too many people to admit it. Moderates like Wood are the last to admit how the broadening of the base costs them. That's cognitive dissonance for ya.
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Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
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Re: Why All Muslims Benefit from Terrorism

#82  Postby Ironclad » Jun 18, 2017 4:54 pm

"If there was no such thing as science, you'd be right " - Sean Lock

"God ....an inventive destroyer" - Broks

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Re: Why All Muslims Benefit from Terrorism

#83  Postby Cito di Pense » Jun 18, 2017 5:23 pm

Ironclad wrote:https://youtu.be/-IchGuL501U


OK, so a desire for 'meaning' and for 'order' (I use these terms loosely) does not make one an 'idiot'.

Who doesn't have a desire for meaning and for order, except, you know, the weirdos? Nothing is explained. Except if you start out by saying that you're not one of us if you lack a desire for meaning and for order. It's not about what you desire, but about what you can get along without. Not everybody who feels nervous amid a lack of meaning and order becomes a terrorist. Just think about it. Does the speaker in this video really suggest that the majority manage to find meaning and order without manufacturing it? Failure to manufacture it (among those who think they need it) is just laziness. Sometimes that meaning is 'jihad'. If you don't want them to blow you up, you have to detect them and imprison or execute them.

Ergo, it is psychopaths who are victimised by those selling jihad. And we are victimised by them. Maybe they're just really good at finding and grooming psychopaths. Getting somebody else to do your dirty work is not psychopathic, and is nothing new. I don't want to do anything evil. But I don't want to march in your campaign unless you're willing to pay up, because that's how much you care. You have to find the people who are grooming psychopaths and fuck them up bigtime.
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Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
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Re: Why All Muslims Benefit from Terrorism

#84  Postby quas » Jun 18, 2017 6:04 pm

Cito di Pense wrote:
No, beer bottles often display a message to the effect of "Be responsible in your consumption of alcohol". And the Koran (like scripture in general) contains messages of peace, but it's bigger than the label on a beer bottle, and so contains additional messages that can be interpreted in various ways.


When you mention messages of peace, which verses do you have in mind?
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those who think alike than those who think differently. -Nietzsche
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Re: Why All Muslims Benefit from Terrorism

#85  Postby Cito di Pense » Jun 18, 2017 6:29 pm

quas wrote:
Cito di Pense wrote:
No, beer bottles often display a message to the effect of "Be responsible in your consumption of alcohol". And the Koran (like scripture in general) contains messages of peace, but it's bigger than the label on a beer bottle, and so contains additional messages that can be interpreted in various ways.


When you mention messages of peace, which verses do you have in mind?


You can easily find them yourself and interpret them as you will:

http://abuaminaelias.com/peace-in-the-quran-and-sunnah/

The point is not that messages cannot be interpreted in only one way, except by literalists like you. Read 'em and weep.

I'm not going to fuck up your parade, except in conversations like this one. I'm just damned if I'm going to march in it because you wave a sign "us vs them" and have absolutely no specifics to argue except that you're afraid somebody's going to blow you up and that's all you can think about at one time. The person who blows you up might turn out to be a white supremacist. Timothy McVeigh blew up a few scores of people, too, and he probably leafed through his bible once in a while to find verses which mentioned vengeance.
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Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
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Re: Why All Muslims Benefit from Terrorism

#86  Postby juju7 » Jun 19, 2017 11:30 am

quas wrote:
Manticore wrote:Must show this to some of my Muslim friends. Give them a good laugh.


And when they do laugh, accuse them of practicing taqiya, it would only make the laughter more boisterous.


If one goes around accusing friends of lying, you are not likely to have many friends.

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Re: Why All Muslims Benefit from Terrorism

#87  Postby DavidMcC » Jun 19, 2017 11:45 am

quas wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
This your idiosyncratic definition quas.
Religious violence isn't limited to what is explicitely mentioned in religious texts.


Of course it's not. It's plausible that one could commit religious violence simply due to one's religious conviction, even if those violent acts had not been explicitly instructed by the religious texts.

Here's what I mean:
If you are 100% certain that I am a serial child-killer, and you have kids, and I happen to live in your neighborhood, then it's very likely that you have me killed before I have your kids killed.

...

Where do you live, quas? America? Where I come from, you would talk to the police about your concerns.
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Re: Why All Muslims Benefit from Terrorism

#88  Postby Thommo » Jun 19, 2017 11:57 am

Just watched Miqdaad Versi of the MCB on today's Daily Politics say that the BBC should ban people like Douglas Murray from appearing in a comparison to convicted terrorist supporter Anjem Choudary.
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Re: Why All Muslims Benefit from Terrorism

#89  Postby Matthew Shute » Jun 19, 2017 12:21 pm

People like Douglas Murray? Which views in particular was Versi referring to, that should be censored? Ones critical of Islam, by any chance?
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Re: Why All Muslims Benefit from Terrorism

#90  Postby Thommo » Jun 19, 2017 1:50 pm

He didn't specify. He was making a point about the media in general and the BBC in particular covering hate speech when they shouldn't (it's at 13:55 in this link http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... s-19062017 ) and compared Douglas Murray being on the Daily Politics last week and saying that "less Islam is the answer" (his paraphrase, I can't speak for the accuracy) to Anjem Choudary no longer being allowed on.

One suspects Choudary's stay at Her Majesty's pleasure might also play a role in his inability to get to the Daily Politics studios though.
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Re: Why All Muslims Benefit from Terrorism

#91  Postby Matthew Shute » Jun 19, 2017 3:25 pm

Thanks. I found the clip in question. He (Murray) is hardly advocating "hate", unless from now on that's what we're going to call simply being against Islam.

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Re: Why All Muslims Benefit from Terrorism

#92  Postby quas » Jun 23, 2017 5:11 pm

DavidMcC wrote:Where do you live, quas? America? Where I come from, you would talk to the police about your concerns.


What if the police doesn't do anything, because they think there isn't enough evidence to make an arrest? Certainly you'd feel compelled to take action! In the event that you truly believe I am capable of sending your child to hell, can you trust the police to have me arrested?
The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem
those who think alike than those who think differently. -Nietzsche
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Re: Why All Muslims Benefit from Terrorism

#93  Postby Oeditor » Jul 17, 2017 6:26 pm

Matthew Shute wrote:Thanks. I found the clip in question. He (Murray) is hardly advocating "hate", unless from now on that's what we're going to call simply being against Islam.
Surely that's the whole idea, from the OIC in the United Nations downwards.
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Re: Why All Muslims Benefit from Terrorism

#94  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Jul 17, 2017 7:34 pm

quas wrote:
DavidMcC wrote:Where do you live, quas? America? Where I come from, you would talk to the police about your concerns.


What if the police doesn't do anything, because they think there isn't enough evidence to make an arrest? Certainly you'd feel compelled to take action! In the event that you truly believe I am capable of sending your child to hell, can you trust the police to have me arrested?

How is that different from someone capable of killing my child, regardless of religious beliefs?
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Why All Muslims Benefit from Terrorism

#95  Postby quas » Jul 18, 2017 2:39 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
quas wrote:
DavidMcC wrote:Where do you live, quas? America? Where I come from, you would talk to the police about your concerns.


What if the police doesn't do anything, because they think there isn't enough evidence to make an arrest? Certainly you'd feel compelled to take action! In the event that you truly believe I am capable of sending your child to hell, can you trust the police to have me arrested?

How is that different from someone capable of killing my child, regardless of religious beliefs?


That's the thing, it's perfectly okay to kill someone if you have good reason to believe he might endanger your loved ones. But that doesn't usually happen, because most people don't live next to serial killers. But when you are religious, and you have a neighbour who believed differently, it's as if you are living next to a killer. That's the most dangerous thing about religious beliefs, it makes it rational to kill those who believed differently.
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Re: Why All Muslims Benefit from Terrorism

#96  Postby Mazille » Jul 18, 2017 3:30 pm

Where the hell do you get the idea that it's perfectly acceptable to kill someone because they might endanger your loved ones?

I'd have to stab half of all automobile owners, for a start.
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Re: Why All Muslims Benefit from Terrorism

#97  Postby DavidMcC » Jul 18, 2017 4:28 pm

Mazille wrote:Where the hell do you get the idea that it's perfectly acceptable to kill someone because they might endanger your loved ones?

I'd have to stab half of all automobile owners, for a start.

Maybe quas is American. :dunno:
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Re: Why All Muslims Benefit from Terrorism

#98  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Jul 18, 2017 6:31 pm

quas wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:
quas wrote:
DavidMcC wrote:Where do you live, quas? America? Where I come from, you would talk to the police about your concerns.


What if the police doesn't do anything, because they think there isn't enough evidence to make an arrest? Certainly you'd feel compelled to take action! In the event that you truly believe I am capable of sending your child to hell, can you trust the police to have me arrested?

How is that different from someone capable of killing my child, regardless of religious beliefs?


That's the thing, it's perfectly okay to kill someone if you have good reason to believe he might endanger your loved ones.

One, this is moving the goal posts.
Two, Muslims terrorist are also killing children to protect their loved ones.

quas wrote: But that doesn't usually happen, because most people don't live next to serial killers. But when you are religious, and you have a neighbour who believed differently, it's as if you are living next to a killer. That's the most dangerous thing about religious beliefs, it makes it rational to kill those who believed differently.

Religion. But also: racism, nationalism, any form of cultism, etc.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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